Stadium Development

[Bladeloyal]

No doubt the Council would love it as a building plot and to see us on a faceless industrial park like Derby. The location of BDTBL is superb. Newcastle city centre is made all the more special by the presence of their stadium. We should never leave

A progressive city council would have made the most of our S2 post code and had a plan to utilise the walk up to the lane ,smart pathways shuttle buses , probably created a football quarter

 

[CornwallBlade]

As opposed to ?

A club, followed by real fans, rooted in traditional working class support and, when its going off, the best atmosphere bar none. Big grounds out of necessity, are filled by corporate entertainment, corporate season ticket holders and those demanding trophies every season. If that appeals, fine, but personally, i love the heartbreak, the ups and downs and if I had to trade what we are for being another Spurs or Man City? No thanks.
Don’t get me wrong, as a fan of football, I love watching Man City, but they’d never be my team.

 

[CornwallBlade]

A progressive city council would have made the most of our S2 post code and had a plan to utilise the walk up to the lane ,smart pathways shuttle buses , probably created a football quarter

Absolutely but that would have required vision and creativity- from a Council that thinks tearing up the trees that have been a part of the charm of this City was a good idea?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Why does a new stadium automatically mean it will be a “soulless bowl”?

Middlesbrough, Leicester, Southampton, Derby and Sunderland etc. built their stadiums in the late 90s and early 00s. I’m sure stadium design must’ve changed and improved in the last 20-25 years!

Yes, it all depends on how much money you have to spend on a new stadium. But if we ever went down that route, I have a feeling it would be much, much closer to the Derby, Southampton model than anything like the unique Everton design.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Let's say we're going redevelop the Kop. United is a business and needs payback over 10 years on a major investment like a new stand. The Kop currently has a capacity of 10,221 but a lot of those seats are properly restricted view so let's say a working capacity of 10,000. Two hypothetical options:

1) A monster, single tier along the lines of Spurs' new home end. That's the biggest single tier stand in the country at 17,500. We'd not get to that, maybe to 15,000. Cost around £30m. Each of those additional 5,000 seats has to generate an income of £1,000 per year and that's assuming they all sell.
2) A two-tier home end with an additional 7,000 seats but at a cost of £40m. Each of the additional seats has to generate £850 additional revenue per year, again assuming they all sell.

The money doesn't really stack up for the Kop rebuild. The smart choice is to put a second tier on the Laver stand with two rows of corporate boxes. Like it or not, the money is in the corporate income not the standard seats. If we sort that we might be able to take a longer term view on replacing the Kop.

It’s got to be a two tier development for me, similar to the Holt End at Villa. The current kop could be largely untouched while the upper tier was constructed behind. Liverpool have built 2 stands like this, with minimal impact on their crowds.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

…It got to be the kop first, as it is the most antiquated stand at the ground.

 

[Bladeloyal]

…It got to be the kop first, as it is the most antiquated stand at the ground.

So much scope for development has the kop ,new stand behind the old kop ,all done with minimal disruption to fans

 

[YES Blade]

Yes, it all depends on how much money you have to spend on a new stadium. But if we ever went down that route, I have a feeling it would be much, much closer to the Derby, Southampton model than anything like the unique Everton design.

Brentford and Brighton are two examples of cheaper stadiums which have a more unique design.

You don’t need to spend close to a billion to have something a bit different. I’d look at some of the German stadiums for inspiration, something similar to the FC Koln stadium would be great…



Or Mainz stadium…

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

…It got to be the kop first, as it is the most antiquated stand at the ground.

Minimal RoI. Unless we’ve someone who has more money than sense it’ll be the South stand first and get those exec boxes in.

 

[jt64]

Brentford and Brighton are two examples of cheaper stadiums which have a more unique design.

You don’t need to spend close to a billion to have something a bit different. I’d look at some of the German stadiums for inspiration, something similar to the FC Koln stadium would be great…

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Or Mainz stadium…

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Mainz's home end is great. Only problem is that the stadium is in the middle of nowhere

 

[bladesmanluke]

The Kop looks a lot better without the supporting pillars, but I still don't see the sense in spending millions to remove them and build a new roof if we're not going to increase the capacity whilst we're at it.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

This threads lively to say nowt will happen for yonks

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

What amazes me me about us Blades is how scared to 'think big' some are! Even modestly big!!! It's always the same, from top to bottom. If WE don't think big... why should the owners?
Are we really that mediocre?

Yes, development is costly... but at some freaking point you have to do it. Why does it have to provide ROI in 10 years? It's an asset that'll pay back well in excess of that timeframe.
Current kop is 3x that now.

I'm not a fan of the bolt on effort we had planned, for me it's piling up a bigger more expensive rebuild later. Its cheap and nasty, and doesn't address all the issues the stand has.

What's wrong with having a signature stand on Shoreham? Like the Spurs one - also built on a slight arc like Wolves do... get more seats in the same linear dimension to counter losses with a steeper rake. To limit seat revenue loss during construction, start building behind, sever the front when you have to.

Also, how poorly planned have our ground modernisation projects been. I'd like to think the clubs planners would consider these things, or maybe not:

That shocker in the corner - think the Architect must have been pissed, or the cleaner did it.
Building a hotel that restricts BL & South stand expansion... beggars belief!
No forward thinking at all.
Have the half-way line, half way equally on both opposite stands, not offset!

Ok... maybe I'm a bit OCD... but it winds me up!
At least do it so the ground has symmetry and balance.

Come up with a good long-term plan - a plan that allows for incremental change - which can be better absorbed financially, or be passed from/ to ownerships of the club.

It is always going to cost more tomorrow than it will today, but future proof it!

I know... ranting, we've heard this shit before, just hope someone with clout can make it happen.

 

[Bladeloyal]

What amazes me me about us Blades is how scared to 'think big' some are! Even modestly big!!! It's always the same, from top to bottom. If WE don't think big... why should the owners?
Are we really that mediocre?

Yes, development is costly... but at some freaking point you have to do it. Why does it have to provide ROI in 10 years? It's an asset that'll pay back well in excess of that timeframe.
Current kop is 3x that now.

I'm not a fan of the bolt on effort we had planned, for me it's piling up a bigger more expensive rebuild later. Its cheap and nasty, and doesn't address all the issues the stand has.

What's wrong with having a signature stand on Shoreham? Like the Spurs one - also built on a slight arc like Wolves do... get more seats in the same linear dimension to counter losses with a steeper rake. To limit seat revenue loss during construction, start building behind, sever the front when you have to.

Also, how poorly planned have our ground modernisation projects been. I'd like to think the clubs planners would consider these things, or maybe not:

That shocker in the corner - think the Architect must have been pissed, or the cleaner did it.
Building a hotel that restricts BL & South stand expansion... beggars belief!
No forward thinking at all.
Have the half-way line, half way equally on both opposite stands, not offset!

Ok... maybe I'm a bit OCD... but it winds me up!
At least do it so the ground has symmetry and balance.

Come up with a good long-term plan - a plan that allows for incremental change - which can be better absorbed financially, or be passed from/ to ownerships of the club.

It is always going to cost more tomorrow than it will today, but future proof it!

I know... ranting, we've heard this shit before, just hope someone with clout can make it happen.

Thank Kevin McCabe property developer for the restrictions js,stand bramall lane corner ,kop corner ,taking bits of land for personal wealth and power ,all shit leads to his door

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

Thank Kevin McCabe property developer for the restrictions js,stand bramall lane corner ,kop corner ,taking bits of land for personal wealth and power ,all shit leads to his door

I dont want to knock him, as I just dont know if hi intentions for us were true. But, for someone that has that construction/ building background, I'm flabbergasted at what he signed up to.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I think we’re gonna need a bigger boat.

 

[Boxer Blade]

A club, followed by real fans, rooted in traditional working class support and, when its going off, the best atmosphere bar none. Big grounds out of necessity, are filled by corporate entertainment, corporate season ticket holders and those demanding trophies every season. If that appeals, fine, but personally, i love the heartbreak, the ups and downs and if I had to trade what we are for being another Spurs or Man City? No thanks.
Don’t get me wrong, as a fan of football, I love watching Man City, but they’d never be my team.

The fuck are you on about, I have been a season ticket holder on the kop for over 30 years so my heart is embedded in the blades , I want a successful team to follow, " a club rooted in traditional working class support" we always will be, just because we are owned by a rich owner doesn't change any of that, you love watching man city but they'd never be my team?
What the fuck you on? Of course they're not, United are your team ,what a stupid fuckin comment.

 

[CornwallBlade]

The fuck are you on about, I have been a season ticket holder on the kop for over 30 years so my heart is embedded in the blades , I want a successful team to follow, " a club rooted in traditional working class support" we always will be, just because we are owned by a rich owner doesn't change any of that, you love watching man city but they'd never be my team?
What the fuck you on? Of course they're not, United are your team ,what a stupid fuckin comment.

Nice, nothing like a polite and reasonable exchange on a fans forum. Sorry if I made things unclear - I was referring to the characteristics of a club, as an example of what I wouldn’t want to change. Do you seriously think that the current fan base and match attendees at Man City mirrors that which existed before the Abu Dhabi royal family money landed? I love following a team whose squad is lit up by the occasional star. Shortcutting to the CL and PL titles simply by buying 20 galacticos and refreshing them from our pick of the best players in the world each season - just because we can afford to - changes the whole dynamics of a club and I don’t want anything to do with that.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Nice, nothing like a polite and reasonable exchange on a fans forum. Sorry if I made things unclear - I was referring to the characteristics of a club, as an example of what I wouldn’t want to change. Do you seriously think that the current fan base and match attendees at Man City mirrors that which existed before the Abu Dhabi royal family money landed? I love following a team whose squad is lit up by the occasional star. Shortcutting to the CL and PL titles simply by buying 20 galacticos and refreshing them from our pick of the best players in the world each season - just because we can afford to - changes the whole dynamics of a club and I don’t want anything to do with that.

Good for you, I want to watch a successful side, doesn't have to be city there are other examples of teams being invested in that have kept their identity, all clubs identities have changed, shall we still just have players from the local area and have the majority of supporters walk to the ground? Course not, the game has changed for ever you just have to accept it .
I bet you'd be happy if a United supporter who happens to be a billionaire buys us as I obviously would, but if he did and we started winning things and buying some of the best in the world you're saying you wouldn't be happy because it changed the whole dynamic of the club..
To summarize you would prefer us to be a middling championship club with no real chance of competing than one attracting the best players and keeping our young fan base from becoming city or arsenal fans, fair enough,your choice,me ? I want to see us winning things.

 

[I should coco]

I dont want to knock him, as I just dont know if hi intentions for us were true. But, for someone that has that construction/ building background, I'm flabbergasted at what he signed up to.

Different times.

We were a struggling loss making championship club. The hotel and office block, were meant to give us additional non-footy revenue streams.

Bolt on and ugly there may be, but he was struggling to fund our annual losses. Only the deluded of S6, could have suggested spending tens of millions of pounds on a new ground,.

We are where we are, but somehow the anti McCabes can't wait to put the boot in.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Thank Kevin McCabe property developer for the restrictions js,stand bramall lane corner ,kop corner ,taking bits of land for personal wealth and power ,all shit leads to his door

Bettis has said the"bits of land" have zero impact on any of the long term plans out there

 

[ancientblade]

a new 15k kop would allow us to accomodate 30k home fans and 5/6k away fans on the lane end that would be enough for us

 

[Rochdaleblade]

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The Kop looks a lot better without the supporting pillars, but I still don't see the sense in spending millions to remove them and build a new roof if we're not going to increase the capacity whilst we're at it.

A more sensible step would be to build a larger roof with space underneath to expand the kop.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

Different times.

We were a struggling loss making championship club. The hotel and office block, were meant to give us additional non-footy revenue streams.

Bolt on and ugly there may be, but he was struggling to fund our annual losses. Only the deluded of S6, could have suggested spending tens of millions of pounds on a new ground,.

We are where we are, but somehow the anti McCabes can't wait to put the boot in.

Fair comments mate, unless you really 'know stuff' you cant be anti any owner... it's all just perception of what's in the media and rumour.

That said, they were ill-conceived. Even on a budget they could have been located, designed/ architected better to keep your options open. In the hope you'll have a few quid in the future.

 

[Harry's Game]

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The Kop looks a lot better without the supporting pillars, but I still don't see the sense in spending millions to remove them and build a new roof if we're not going to increase the capacity whilst we're at it.

In 1991 the then Owner Reg Brealey said of the newly seated kop stand built over the remains of the old standing Kop that it was a “temporary solution to meet the demands of the Taylor Report and would need replacing with a proper stand in 5-7 years“. 32 years later it’s still there relatively unchanged.

The only other club that re profiled their old Kop with seats instead of building a proper stand was our foes across the city they actually had the money to build a proper stand at the time but chose to spend the money doing up the main stand instead so also went for the cheap option As regard to their Kop

Both clubs in hindsight made the same mistake.

 

[Whiston Blade]

Both clubs in hindsight made the same mistake.

Sheffield football in a nutshell.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

A more sensible step would be to build a larger roof with space underneath to expand the kop.

Interesting! Done right, not a bad idea.

Looking at an aerial view of Shoreham, they should drag it back, 10, 15, 20 metres.
Gives you options [in the future] to build John St. and the South stand towards it - maybe integrate them?
That in turn gives you sacrificial parts of both stands at the BL end... so you could build a better stand, and not interfere with the hotel.

Not a flight of fancy if planned properly in increments... not much revenue loss due to build shutdowns.

You might have space to be able to extend the South stand round to incorporate BL, integrate the kop and round to John St, Keeping the same structure as the South... would resemble old Trafford, but single tiered. [Yeah - This is a flight of fancy]

Any planners, Photoshop experts that could mock up any of what folks are suggesting?
Now the shirts have been released... what are you doing?

 

[Lucky1979]

A progressive city council would have made the most of our S2 post code and had a plan to utilise the walk up to the lane ,smart pathways shuttle buses , probably created a football quarter

Meadowhall’s fault obviously

 

[Westran]

Some work has started on the hotel today, might be small, drove past twice and they have scaffolding up. Looks like they're replacing some of the windows and doing some other bits of work. Maybe to prepare for larger works or maybe just to keep it from delapidating further.

 

[Liaminho9]

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The Kop looks a lot better without the supporting pillars, but I still don't see the sense in spending millions to remove them and build a new roof if we're not going to increase the capacity whilst we're at it.

Why did they bother putting them back in after you’d taken those photos? The roof is clearly fine without them.