Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[Pedro's Winger]

The business case for doing the South seems to make a lot more sense imo. More corporate boxes, higher general admission ticket prices and access to the land underneath - which is all in the original plan. As well as that, you can keep the stand open whilst it's built and have more seats available to supporters if the club ever gets round to a complete rebuild of the Kop.
If the Kop ever gets done I'd like them to do it properly.The Kop is no longer the Kop if they follow the current plan and turn it into a two tier job. The land underneath is also wasted indefinitely.

Given the South Stand can already be £45 a pop now, not sure we have thousands more fans ready to pay the same or likely more in the near future.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

The current plans for the south stand has two sets of boxes. The income they bring in would be huge. We have lots of off the pitch catching up to do and that's what the focus will be on first rather than the kop surely.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

This season's STs were sold at Championship prices before we got promoted - just watch the sales dive once the Club tries a price increase for next season. One thing McCabe was correct on is the notorious price-elasticity of Blades fans , which is why he kept prices low. Add to that the "second season" syndrome , when all the excitement of promotion has dissipated , and the Club will not be daft enough to sanction money for ground extensions , particularly when so much is needed to bring our wage bill up to Prem levels. Not forgetting the need to bung Kevin about £50m to buy the existing ground etc off him. And build a better training facility. Ground extensions are miles down the priority list.

Minor point of order but several established Prem clubs have season tickets costing similar to our 'Championship prices'.

 

[Maidenhead]

Can't believe what I'm reading.

Took us 45 years to get back to the verge of Europe, following the damage caused by building the new south stand to the detriment of investment in the team, and this place is full of silly burgers wanting to start the whole effing process again.

 

[Jon Bon II]

Can't believe what I'm reading.

Took us 45 years to get back to the verge of Europe, following the damage caused by building the new south stand to the detriment of investment in the team, and this place is full of silly burgers wanting to start the whole effing process again.

Come on Mr McCabe, go home now. Have a bit of dignity.

 

[Maidenhead]

Come on Mr McCabe, go home now. Have a bit of dignity.

You should see what I've just posted on my mistakes thread

 

[Jon Bon II]

You should see what I've just posted on my mistakes thread

Fair do's Kev. At least you can get your yacht now - well, as soon as PA stumps up for the real estate anyway...

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Some of those Mancunian accents from places like Harpuhey sound foreign tbf.

quite possibly - I'm not so familiar with Harpuhey - in fact I never heard of it - but I'll take your word for it.

I heard Spanish and Russian accents in that tram queue, unmistakably. I can tell a Spanish accent because they sound like they're a bit short-tongued with a lisp. And the Russians sound like my old cassette tapes used to sound when they got tangled up and played backwards.

 

[Radders]

When McDonald was our chairman (mid '90s?) I remember him saying that the Kop hadn't been done right. Looking back now, it seems he was correct. Even as it is though, the view seems ok when everyone stands up, so would safe standing solve that problem, at least in the short term?
It does seem a very dated concept however, to have to go right to the front or the back of the Kop in order to get out (wasn't a problem when there were no seats and you could also get in and out at the side of the Kop nearest Cherry St). The plan to extend it backwards doesn't help in that regard either.
I think really it needs a proper rebuild but as others have said, it might make more commercial sense to expand the South Stand first.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Can't believe what I'm reading.

Took us 45 years to get back to the verge of Europe, following the damage caused by building the new south stand to the detriment of investment in the team, and this place is full of silly burgers wanting to start the whole effing process again.

Different times. Different circumstances. If re-development of the ground would be putting us in financial jeopardy, like the building of the South Stand did, then it would make no sense at all. But it won't. It'll just open the door for more fans to pour in through the turnstiles and increase revenues.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Sold out for Saturday already... still some fans saying we don't need a bigger capacity???

 

[Sheffsteel]

Different times. Different circumstances. If re-development of the ground would be putting us in financial jeopardy, like the building of the South Stand did, then it would make no sense at all. But it won't. It'll just open the door for more fans to pour in through the turnstiles and increase revenues.

Agree....also I know people might say “our fans are too obsessed with the Pigs....it shouldn’t matter what they do”.

However the reality if the situation is that not all young kids are automatically brainwashed by their parents to support Blades or the Owls.
Many have free choice and in the age of social media tend to sway towards the club with more prestige, better reputation, more success, more attractive.
Therefore if SW are struggling for the next 10 years....then we have a great chance to mop up 1000’s of potential supporters.
We might create a legacy and open up a gap so big....thats it becomes practically impossible for SW to overtake us both on and off the field.
For many decades football in Sheffield has been cyclical but due to finances the longer a club is in the PL then there’s an opportunity to open up a massive gap.

 

[Maidenhead]

Agree....also I know might say “our fans are too obsessed with the Pigs....it shouldn’t matter what they do”.

However the reality if the situation is that not all young kids are automatically brainwashed by their parents to support Blades or the Owls.
Many have free choice and in the age of social media tend to sway towards the club with more prestige, better reputation, more success, more attractive.
Therefore if SW are struggling for the next 10 years....then we have a great chance to mop up 1000’s of potential supporters.
We might create a legacy and open up a gap so big....thats it becomes practically impossible for SW to overtake us both on and off the field.
For many decades football in Sheffield has been cyclical but due to finances the longer a club is in the PL then there’s an opportunity to open up a massive gap.

And if we get relegated next season with a new ground to pay for and no demand for the seats?

That's pretty much what happened last time.

If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Has any serious fan struggled to get a ticket this season? I can't commit to a season ticket and didn't want to pay for a membership but I've still found it easy to get to any game I've been able to attend. Until that starts to change I don't see the point in expanding the capacity, the last thing I want is for BDTBL to turn into the Stadium of Light or Reebok etc. where it will always look part empty for the vast majority of games

Funny that because..

• Were basically selling out home games
• Were improving each year under CW
• Spending more money which attracts
• Many fans couldn't purchase a ST as they wasn't enough on offer or missed the deadline
• Some fans with no points just dont bother getting a ticket as they think they'll not get one
• Paying for 19 single home games is over double of a ST so fans can't afford it
• Alot seats are restricted view
• People don't want to sit on their own with limited seats available

Im not saying we need a new stadium or thousands of extra seats but YES we do need some sort of capacity increase if we want to build and improve upon!!

 

[Sheffsteel]

And if we get relegated next season with a new ground to pay for and no demand for the seats?

That's pretty much what happened last time.

If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got

True....I expect us to speculate and gamble on and off the pitch.....but he will be down slowly and gradually.

 

[Maidenhead]

True....I expect us to speculate and gamble on and off the pitch.....but he will be down slowly and gradually.

You see you used that word "gamble"

Good businesses don't gamble, they plan.

The time to expand/improve the ground is when we have had a good few years in the top division and we have put funds aside to cover a wedge of the costs, and only then if there is a clear and obvious demand for the seats.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Agree....also I know might say “our fans are too obsessed with the Pigs....it shouldn’t matter what they do”.

However the reality if the situation is that not all young kids are automatically brainwashed by their parents to support Blades or the Owls.
Many have free choice and in the age of social media tend to sway towards the club with more prestige, better reputation, more success, more attractive.
Therefore if SW are struggling for the next 10 years....then we have a great chance to mop up 1000’s of potential supporters.
We might create a legacy and open up a gap so big....thats it becomes practically impossible for SW to overtake us both on and off the field.
For many decades football in Sheffield has been cyclical but due to finances the longer a club is in the PL then there’s an opportunity to open up a massive gap.

That's how I see it as well. I think this season could be quite a unique point in the history of Sheffield football. Arguably both clubs have been pretty equal since their formation in terms of success, support, trophies, facilities, whatever. Yes there are periods when either club has held the upper hand, but if we are totally objective about it, there's nothing much to choose between them over the past 100+ years.

However, with United on the verge of Europe and Wednesday on the verge of serious financial issues that could see them deducted points and relegated to League 1, the gap could get considerably bigger, in United's favour. OK, so they've been 2 divisions apart before and neither side has suffered irreversibly because of that.

But things are different now. (I said the same things many times when we were in League 1 and the Championship).

The gap between the top division and the others is getting bigger all the time. There will come a point where (unless changes to the way money flows through all the divisions is made) we will have an elite division of clubs that will almost be unreachable for those in the lower divisions and the same few clubs will be going up and down from the Prem to the Championship every season, because they'll be the ones with the finances to afford to be able to do that. The rest will be a quagmire of average teams that just can't muster a challenge to get into the Prem.

It could get even more extreme than that. If the Premier League decided to create their own infrastructure to broadcast games, rather than go through the likes of Sky, BT and Amazon as now, the revenue that would be flowing into the Premier League would be billions. This is not pure fantasy - it's a real possibility. Whichever way you look at it, the Premier League is the only league to be in, if long term survival is to be assured, and the financial benefits for clubs who get there and manage to stay there for any length of time will put them at such an advantage over those that don't.

United already have opened up a gap over Wednesday. Not just in terms of league position either, but on just about every front you can think of. I think it's quite realistic to expect that the gap between the two clubs will widen even further over the coming years given the very different circumstances of the two clubs. We are probably looking at a Bristol City v Bristol Rovers type comparison in terms of one club being considerably bigger than the other, despite both being from the same city. Unlike the Bristol comparison though, one club, United, will be in the Premier League and the other club, Wednesday, so far adrift of it that it may simply never happen again that they play at the highest level of English football.

And future generations of kids growing up in and around this city, will be drawn to the red and white two thirds and not the blue third.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

And if we get relegated next season with a new ground to pay for and no demand for the seats?

That's pretty much what happened last time.

If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got

I don't think anyone is talking about a new ground. We're talking about, step by step, re-development of the existing ground. And the way we would probably do that, (at least this is what I would advise) is to start with one stand and extend that, using monies that are guaranteed to be in the bank at the end of this season. So, whilst we may pay for it over a longer period, the money is assured and in the bank account now. I'd start with the stand which is easiest to extend and least costly to extend and the one which would give us an immediate boost in terms of extra capacity. That, I assume, is the South Stand, for reasons I put on another thread earlier today.

We'd then take stock of the situation at the end of next season, if it looked like we were going to be relegated then we'd not extend the ground any further at that point. And we wouldn't be in debt from the extension we'd already done, because as I've said, the money would be there to pay for that.

As regards no demand to pay for the seats if we were relegated, that's just not true. There may be a "reduced" demand for season tickets, we might lose 4,000-5,000 off the average gate, but there would still be a healthy level of demand, as long as the fans felt that we had a realistic chance of getting promoted again.

So, the approach is, take advantage of the opportunity to push the club even further and further, whilst at the same time mitigating any significant risks that would cause a serious setback to the club.

I think that's the policy anyhow - it's certainly something I've heard coming from the club. It's not doing what we always did. What we always did was under invest in opportunities and then sell off our assets if things went bad.

This is a different situation altogether. I think it's ambitious, exciting and sensible.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

“Twas not the Tevez saga or Warnock’s away tactics that relegated us back then son, but the construction of the Westfield Corner. 4 years later, we were in League 1.”

 

[Koh Samui Blade]

The business case should be put forward to fans.

Option A is to keep prices as they are now and use the design in the pictures.
Quite cheap to build, Increase in capacity, Removal of pillars, really modern and spacious covered concourse families, looks really good from the outside or

Option B is to increase prices 25% on the Kop chraging exactly the same as the south stand for 2 inches more knee room and slightly steeper rake.
Expensive to build, no increase in capacity, Removal of pillars, really modern and spacious covered concourse families, looks really good from the outside
BUT you receive a letter in the post from SU explaining capacity is reduced to 21K so you are totally banned from all our matches for up to 2 years.
Imagine the heartache if someone has been a season holder for 30 years and never missed a match...to be turned away in the name of progress.

Unless someone can come up with a radical idea....eg build a leisure park behind the Kop....restaurant, bars etc but doubt it would be a success.

I go to football grounds to watch a game of football, not to sit in a posh bar or restaurant.Build the cheap option, increase capacity,we all have an uninterupted view and as a season tkt holder on the kop i will not miss two seasons of football.

 

[Jon Bon II]

Why not? There's plenty who think warfare is just like Command and Conquer, and footy is like FIFA.

pommpey

Pro Evo. You philistine.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Sold out for Saturday already... still some fans saying we don't need a bigger capacity???

Some are. Very few. More are suggesting financially, we learn to walk before we start running.

#noambishun

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Ooooof! Gerrit buit! It'll look lovely on t'Champions League neets, all full o'screamin Blades, that will....

If anybody doesn't think that that looks mint, they need their bumps feeling.

Been having a look through the resubmitted application from 2017 that had approval granted. Here are the amended artist impressions from that.

 

[Working Class Hero]

How are people of the opinion that the South stand is the priority, when there's one literally bang next to it with four big fuck off pillars obstructing the view and thousands of people queueing for a piss in the rain? Some of the stuff I read every time these ground development threads crop up is ridiculous, I'm sure people think we live in a computer game. Either that or they've all been successfully brainwashed by the powers that be, in to thinking commercial ventures should come before fans.

 

[jt64]

I think if they do anything, they do the South first, building in such a way that they build around the current stand as much as possible so as not to cause any reduction in capacity, then finish it off over a summer, then in the first season it's finished, don't increase the season ticket quota, so that at the end of next season you can raze the Kop, whack up a new temporary stand, then you probably have enough capacity in the new South, BLUT and temp Kop that very few Kop STH's need miss out

 

[bromtom]

How are people of the opinion that the South stand is the priority, when there's one literally bang next to it with four big fuck off pillars obstructing the view and thousands of people queueing for a piss in the rain? Some of the stuff I read every time these ground development threads crop up is ridiculous, I'm sure people think we live in a computer game. Either that or they've all been successfully brainwashed by the powers that be, in to thinking commercial ventures should come before fans.

Because it'd provide hospitality facilities, which is the main reason clubs build new stands and grounds now.

Kop wouldn't.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

FYI, the resubmitted application in 2017 for the South Stand had one objector resident on Shoreham Street...

“The noise and disruption this will cause to local residents for a long period will be unacceptable, just to make the club a few quid. Our houses will be overlooked, and dwarfed by more faceless characterless flats, reducing our quality of life well after the building work has finished.

The club sneakily reapplied to have the 4th storey on the flats recently, after the permission was reduced to 3 a few years ago, I hope that the council will respect locals wishes that if we're unlucky and it does go ahead that it's still to be no more than 3, I don't hold out much hope of that after watching the chaos of the road resurfacing program and the tree felling despite the fact that hardly anyone thinks it's a good idea.

And SUFC, Take a hint from Southampton FC, relocate somewhere outside the city and you can do what you want.”

The poor guy just wants to live out the rest of his days in peace...

 

[Working Class Hero]

Because it'd provide corporate and hospitality facilities, which is the main reason clubs build new stands and grounds now.

Kop wouldn't.

So you're in the brainwashed camp. Why is providing "corporate hospitality and facilities" more important than unrestricted views and facilities that keep fans dry in winter?

 

[bromtom]

So you're in the brainwashed camp. Why is providing "corporate hospitality and facilities" more important than unrestricted views and facilities that keep fans dry in winter?

I'm not in any camp, you asked why people thought that way, I answered.

If it was my money, I'd rip the Kop down as soon as the whistle blew on our last home game, pay for sound proofing for the houses on Shoreham street and have work done night and day all summer.

 

[metalblade]

Ooooof! Gerrit buit! It'll look lovely on t'Champions League neets, all full o'screamin Blades, that will....

If anybody doesn't think that that looks mint, they need their bumps feeling.

Looks shite pal for a start the idiot mcCabe built a hotel where you would be extending the South Stand 2nd tier and why would anyone want an office block in the South east corner when you could put a few thousand more seats there? Put the mediacentre in the offices under the big screen. McCabe is history his designs for the stadium should be consigned to the same rubbish bin.