Squad reshape this summer

[DronnieBlade]

3 at the back for both Forest and Leeds tonight.

Not quite that straightforward.

Is it ?

UTB

 

[ben1987]

3 at the back for both Forest and Leeds tonight.

Not quite that straightforward.

Is it ?

UTB

I said most of the top teams played a variant of 4231 and 433.

All the teams that won the major tournaments etc did.

The fact you’ve found a couple of teams playing 3 at the back doesn’t prove anything really does it? The fact that 75% of the teams playing tonight are playing 4231 or 433 proves my point more than anything really. I said more games are being won by teams playing 4231 and 433 and I absolutely stand by that. More teams are playing it for a start.

Arsenal, Villa, PSG, Man U etc etc all 4 atb tonight.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[DronnieBlade]

I said most of the top teams played a variant of 4231 and 433.

All the teams that won the major tournaments etc did.

The fact you’ve found a couple of teams playing 3 at the back doesn’t prove anything really does it? The fact that 75% of the teams playing tonight are playing 4231 or 433 proves my point more than anything really. I said more games are being won by teams playing 4231 and 433 and I absolutely stand by that. More teams are playing it for a start.

Arsenal, Villa, PSG, Man U etc etc all 4 atb tonight.

You did - not disputing that.

But even at 25%, there are teams out there that consider it to be at least viable and quite possibly optimal.

For them.

In terms of Utd, without Soutts, 3 at the back isn’t viable.

With him, it most certainly is and veers more towards optimal.

IMO.

UTB

 

[ben1987]

You did - not disputing that.

But even at 25%, there are teams out there that consider it to be at least viable and quite possibly optimal.

For them.

In terms of Utd, without Soutts, 3 at the back isn’t viable.

With him, it most certainly is and veers more towards optimal.

IMO.

UTB

It’s viable. Any formation with the correct personnel is viable.

I just don’t think it’s the right one for us because of the potential vulnerabilities.

You sacrifice a midfielder or an attacker for a 3rd CB, when most team play with one main striker these days that seems wasteful to me. It also leaves you outnumbered higher up the pitch inviting more pressure on to you and almost forces you to be a counter attacking team

As i said earlier we had problems at the end of wilders first reign with wingers getting down the gaps between advancing wingbacks and CB’s.

I totally understand that you think that is the best formation accommodate Burrows and Seriki but Burrows did excellently in a 4231 in his first season with a stronger defence and Vini Souza and Seriki has been decent defensively.

I would rather have a CDM slot in and allow them to advance forward from a back 4 without forfeiting a midfielder or an attacker.

Sorry but just because Leeds and Forest have gone with a 3 tonight I’m not going to change my mind. I’m a nerd and I’ve spent a lot of time contemplating this

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Is 5 more players IN that much of an issue? We've only brought 3 in. (8)

14 players have left this summer and there's more to leave.

We need more.

 

[mattbianco1]

Biggsy just found out McCabe and the Prince have fell out?

 

[dexter101]

Is 5 more players IN that much of an issue? We've only brought 3 in. (8)

14 players have left this summer and there's more to leave.

We need more.

Wilder wants a smaller squad, he made that really clear from quite early on.

I reckon 2 more expected, based on no one else leaving. LM and CB.

If someone comes in for McGuiness for example, we will replace, but I don't think we bring in 2 CB's as it stands.

 

[ckpe147]

Wilder wants a smaller squad, he made that really clear from quite early on.

I reckon 2 more expected, based on no one else leaving. LM and CB.

If someone comes in for McGuiness for example, we will replace, but I don't think we bring in 2 CB's as it stands.

I'd say we'd need to replace Gus with two players. So two LW?

 

[dexter101]

I'd say we'd need to replace Gus with two players. So two LW?

Personally, I would have One as one of those 2.

If he goes, we are then definitely looking for 2 LW.

Would love to play him up top, but I don't think he gets regular game time in that position.

Against Mansfield, he also tracked back well and covered.

 

[BangorBlade]

Personally, I would have One as one of those 2.

If he goes, we are then definitely looking for 2 LW.

Would love to play him up top, but I don't think he gets regular game time in that position.

Against Mansfield, he also tracked back well and covered.

Agree with One' up top with Bamford and possibly if need be put Cannon out on the LW.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Wilder wants a smaller squad, he made that really clear from quite early on.

I reckon 2 more expected, based on no one else leaving. LM and CB.

If someone comes in for McGuiness for example, we will replace, but I don't think we bring in 2 CB's as it stands.

This would be my bare minimum expectation.

Hopefully a move out for Cannon and we can explore alternatives or use Oné more centrally.

 

[RAP51]

Agree with One' up top with Bamford and possibly if need be put Cannon out on the LW.

Before substitutes were allowed, if a player was injured but could still hobble a few yards, they were sent out to limp around on the wing. This happened to Gerry Summers in our F.A. cup 6th round tie v Burnley when he was injured early on in the game and he could hardly walk. He spent most of the game on the left wing and hardly contributed anything. Cannon would seem perfectly suited to this role.

 

[Hallamboy87]

Is it worth trying McCallum further up the pitch? or Burrows? Both left footed and very good at putting the ball into the box. Have one LB the other left wing?

Just an idea as if we can't get no-one in before the deadline then we are fucked on that left hand side!

 

[wf9-Danny]

Looks like Wrexham and Middlesborough after Souttar

 

[ancientblade]

I'd rather we brought in wingers and changed the formation. Wilder has stuck with this 4231 but treats it as a negative defensive formation home and away.

Just about every opponent we play against matches us with it and plays it better than us.

Then again other teams don't spend 90% of the time passing backwards for possession sake, and 90% of teams have off ball movement and pass ahead of players for them to run onto rather than some dimwit stood like a statue expecting the ball to come to them and looking shocked when it's easily intercepted or they come under immediate pressure on receiving the ball.

I genuinely don't think Wilder understands this formation and only went with it because everyone else does.

I'd rather we went with 5 at the back utilising Femi and Burrows as wing backs, then play 2 central midfielders with one acting as box to box, or even O'Hare and Peck both doing this, then have two wingers supporting Bamford.

My biggest worry now that Hamer is gone is that Wilder will cram someone in at left wing, most likely O'Hare, where he will become ineffective instead of bringing in a winger. Souttar I get. Phillips I don't get. He's a luxury that we don't need in a part of the pitch that's already overstocked, unless Wilder is going to play a three man midfield with wing backs. If we knew Hamer was going then why not use the money to sign a permanent left winger instead of wasting the money on a loan fee and wages of a player who we don't need and is a risky gamble?

it wouldnt suprise me if wilder did go back to 352 and as you say play a flat 3 in midfield with peck if he stays as the one supporting the front 2

Think McCallum could probably play in front of Burrows at a push. He's quick, got good feet and delivery is pretty good. Just a thought.....

would be happier with mcallum at lb and burrows lm

 

[sufc323]

Happy first day of the season eve everyone, we're going into the opening weekend woefully short again, needing at least 3 first team players and are scrambling around waiting for loans to become available at the end of the window again. Good job we can afford to write off 10% of the season.

When was the last time we started a season prepared?

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

Think it’s time to move on from Souttar now, it’s looking like it’s not going to happen and I don’t think we should spend all our transfer kitty on him, especially as he’s had problems with injuries.

Hope Wilder has a back up option as we deffo need better centre backs and we could do with one through the door sharpish

 

[Nagima]

Happy first day of the season eve everyone, we're going into the opening weekend woefully short again, needing at least 3 first team players and are scrambling around waiting for loans to become available at the end of the window again. Good job we can afford to write off 10% of the season.

When was the last time we started a season prepared?

Its been awhile. I think we are seeing the same bullheadness from Wilder that the Prince spoke about. " I want him, him and him, I don't want to look at other options. Everyone knew we were short CBs and would look to bring 2 in. Wilder then tells McGuinness "You are not in my plans son" which is showing your hand too soon.
We have Tanganga and a young Baptiste and now require 2 if not 3 CBs

Then Wilder announces to the world that Harry Souttar is the man. Its no wonder that Leicester are holding out because we bent over the barrell ourselves. Then other clubs are stirring it up. We saw this crap when we bought Brewster. McBurnie, Tanganga, Moussett and Cannon. We over pay for players and end up with them running down their contracts, while Wilder fills out the squad with the likes of Rothwell, Jack Robinson, Olly Burke, Chong, and Shackleton.

If we don't get Souttar, we still need CB's and we will over pay again for a lesser player, because we are desperate. We are Lucky to have Phillips. Wilder was telling the world during the summer that he wanted Phillips.

In my opinion, we need to tell other clubs. Here is 6M for Souttar. You have until 5pm to accept, or the offer will be withdrawn and we will move on to other targets

 

[Keen Blade]

Agree with One' up top with Bamford and possibly if need be put Cannon out on the LW.

Putting Cannon out to do a Long Walk would be ideal

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Yesterday's performance put firmly into focus what we need, or at least various opinions as to what we need - athletic, expansive attacking options.

A LW to replace Hamer, CAM depth for O'Hare arguably, CMs who can drive forward (not likely, given the numbers there), Cannon to leave and be replaced with a livelier forward, and of course at least one CB. McGuiness has applied himself well given the circumstances, but you cannot be going with Tanganga and McGuiness and then two kids as back up.

The issue now is, I doubt we have the targets, urgency, recruitment personnel, budget or proactiveness to make any of the above happen. My guess is one CB in, that's it. But as it stands, we're way off it - in terms of pace, possession, athleticism, creativity.

 

[Champagneblade]

Yesterday's performance put firmly into focus what we need, or at least various opinions as to what we need - athletic, expansive attacking options.

A LW to replace Hamer, CAM depth for O'Hare arguably, CMs who can drive forward (not likely, given the numbers there), Cannon to leave and be replaced with a livelier forward, and of course at least one CB. McGuiness has applied himself well given the circumstances, but you cannot be going with Tanganga and McGuiness and then two kids as back up.

The issue now is, I doubt we have the targets, urgency, recruitment personnel, budget or proactiveness to make any of the above happen. My guess is one CB in, that's it. But as it stands, we're way off it - in terms of pace, possession, athleticism, creativity.

Apart from that

I don’t want to hear “there’s the free agent market…”

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

Bare minimum requirements:

1 CB
1 LW
1 CF

Sell Cannon

Ideal:

Sell McGuinness
Another CB
Another winger/attacking midfielder

Too much depends on who we sign for LW. It shouldn't be an unproven kid

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

We seem to fanny about either doing nothing or fawning over targets that are out of our league. Why haven't we planned recruitment around what is affordable and attainable? Know the pond you're fishing in and plan accordingly.

I don't need top level Championship players, we don't need to pretend to be big spenders. But we do need bodies, depth, a bit of creativity (even if raw, inconsistent) and some with some potential resale value.

As it is, we idle about doing nowt.

 

[Champagneblade]

We seem to fanny about either doing nothing or fawning over targets that are out of our league. Why haven't we planned recruitment around what is affordable and attainable? Know the pond you're fishing in and plan accordingly.

I don't need top level Championship players, we don't need to pretend to be big spenders. But we do need bodies, depth, a bit of creativity (even if raw, inconsistent) and some with some potential resale value.

As it is, we idle about doing nowt.

We seem to be waiting late in the window for some reason. I’d say left wing is the most pressing.

At centre back - McGuinness and Tanganga have acquitted themselves well as a pair. Baptiste was due to be first pick. So that’s three. We also have Doherty who can play there and we have Zatterstrom who has played for Sweden. McCallum, Riedewald and Phillips have all deputies there. If a quality option arises then great, but if not we can manage.

We can’t manage on the left and I’ll tell you exactly who we are limited to:

Clarke (Ipswich) - unlikely
James (Leeds) - unlikely
Osman (Brighton) - possible
Mundle (Sunderland) - possible
Koumas (Liverpool) - possible
Esse - (Palace) - unlikely
Rak-Sakyi (Palace) - possible
Lacey (Man U) - possible
Cozier-Duberry (Brighton) - unlikely
Brereton-Diaz (Saints) - possible

Then if we fail you have Traore (Sunderland), Zaha, Sterling, Kent, Fraser.

If I had to take a guess now I’d say we end up with Osman, Mundle or BBD.

Any other realistic options? I’ve dismissed Traore from Wolves/West Ham though would love to see him.