Spending Big Dough aint the Answer

[mosbolad]

Worth bearing in mind that in the case of the top 2 on the list, they have achieved sudden success through being bought by extremely wealthy foreign owners. In both cases, if those owners decide to leave, the clubs would be instantly bankrupt. And if you don't think that could happen, remember the 'impossible' collapse of the banking system in 2008.

Absolutely Hodgy and I'm not at all saying a prudent approach is wrong, spending within your means etc. It's just the OPs bold assertion that 'spending big dough aint the answer', when clearly if you have enough 'Big Dough' it is the answer if the question is how do we (or whoever) win the Premier League or I suppose any league for that matter.

Oh....and is it just me? I can't be doing with 'ain't'........ Thought so...... just me.......

 

[Esablade]

Just put one thing to bed; if anybody says they're not expecting us to spend 30-40 million just a realistic amount of 10/5/2 million, it doesn't matter if it seems realistic to you if it's unaffordable it isn't going to happen. Nobody knows, even those people who put a 'winky' emoji after saying what they think the figure is, so let's just sit tight and see what happens.

As fans we don't what is 'affordable' to our owners at the present time.
Previously we were told the club would receive ‘game changing investment once we were in the championship’.

Putting aside that statement for now, we bid for Coady and Egan in the summer and I believe we missed out on three players, two permanent and one loan(?). We know that losses are down, tv revenue up to around £7 million and we’ve received the added, unexpected bonus from the Walker/Maguire sales of £7 million this year.

It's been widely reported that we’re trying to sign one player permanently (the same player we tried for in the summer) and to bring in in a couple of loans, with a number of player's leaving the club either permanently or on loan. (who knows if this is the case, wait and see eh?)

If the owners come out and say circumstances have changed and the club has to stand on its own feet this year and that they trying to reduce losses further, then so be it...still, as you say, who knows, perhaps Princey’s ‘game changer’ will land after all.

 

[grafikhaus]

It's a tough one. Obviously Man. City prove that you can still 'buy' the Premier League title but they've yet to do it in Europe. And there's the rub - at the top level, it's an 'arms race' where teams must consistently out-spend their rivals. This gives us the laughable sight of Mourinho and Wenger whining about teams who spend big, ignoring of course, the vast fortunes Man. U and Arsenal have spent. The fact is, Man. United are a very good team - they just can't compete with the sums and quality that Man. City bring. And,before long, Man. City will be whining about PSG...

Which brings us to Wolves. Yes, they are buying their way into the PL but - unless theirs is a bottomless wallet - they'll just get beaten on a regular basis next season. Wolves prove how Wednesday have got it badly wrong. When people say how 'well' Carvalhal has done, they ignore the fact that, in 2015-16 (lost to Hull in the play-off final) and 2016-17 (lost to Huddersfield in the p.o. semi), Wednesday had spent sums and bought players at prices unknown back then. Even recently-relegated teams like QPR and Norwich weren't spending like Wednesday were. So why have Wolves got it so right and Wednesday so wrong? Simple. The Chairman doesn't interfere with the footballing side and they have got a very good manager. Wednesday have failed on both fronts.

History shows that, only if you are a historically 'big' club with a solid record of winning trophies, competing, having solid support and infrastructure in place, your stay at the top table will be brief. Unless you're a rare club like Burnley (who will get reeled in before long) or a Blackpool who thought 'Fuck it. We're only here for a season so why bother blowing the cash?', the majority will find that the 'dream' of getting to the PL is anything but.

So where does that leave us? Obviously, we'll never be among the 'big boys' financially, so must cut our cloth. Personally, it doesn't bother me too much. If ever a squillionaire took over at United, we'd be like a lottery winner - we wouldn't have a clue what to do with it!

 

[Maidenhead]

But criminally underfunding the best manager we’ve had at the perfect time is though ???

What's criminal about not spending money you haven't got?

 

[BushBlade]

These threads are like listening to kids trying to justify why their parents should buy them something.

We spent about £3m in the summer, we're not likely to spend more than that in the JTW. You don't get good value and we're 7th, 7 points behind second place. We're not that likely to go up so, the probable outcome is that the money we spend in this window will be 'wasted' in terms of 'taking this great opportunity to go up'. Just like the pigs have effectively wasted all their 'investment' over the last three years. Chancer may as well have gone down the bookies. And even if the board did spend £8m this season (as someone suggested), if we don't go up then they'll be expected to spend the same next season, and the season after.

They haven't got the money to do that. So, 'well they should sell up then'. Yes, to some fucker like Chancer, or Venkys, or Duchalet, or SISU because there's a lot more of those about than there are genuine benefactors.

We all want to see CW backed but not all of us want the board to take high risk gambles just when we're back on track because high risk gambles are more likely to fail than succeed.

 

[5tannington Blade]

Here's the top spending clubs in the Premiere League for summer 2017

Premier League club's money spent on transfers this Summer.

Man City - £217.3m
Chelsea - £202m
Man Utd - £169.5m
Everton - £152.9m
Liverpool - £82.9m
Tottenham - £82.1m

5 of the top 6 spenders make up the top 5 of the Premiere League.

Seriously Hardy what do you make of this if spending 'aint' the answer?

And just for good measure the BOTTOM/lowest 4 spenders are in the bottom 7 of the league.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-09-01/manchester-city-top-the-premier-league-spending-table/
It would appear that spending big dough actually is the answer if firstly you have big dough to spend and secondly a manager who can spend it wisely.

When I said big dough I didn't mean the equivalent of a Man city budget in our league. That clearly is likely to work. But spending out of our means like £4m+ to gamble on the prem. is exactly the sort of thing that could de-rail us.

The battle for the top 4 in the premier league isn't exactly a fair equivalent to getting into the playoffs for the championship. And you should look at teams like Burnley that are 7th that show you a small budget can go a long way. Again - look at Huddersfield. I think everyone would agree with the exception of Leicester it is EXTREMELY difficult to break into the top 4 of the prem. league yet time and time again a well run shrewd championship club on a limited budget makes the playoff. That should be us this year and we shouldn't out do ourselves due to the banana skins involved.

 

[him behind you]

These threads are like listening to kids trying to justify why their parents should buy them something.

We spent about £3m in the summer, we're not likely to spend more than that in the JTW. You don't get good value and we're 7th, 7 points behind second place. We're not that likely to go up so, the probable outcome is that the money we spend in this window will be 'wasted' in terms of 'taking this great opportunity to go up'. Just like the pigs have effectively wasted all their 'investment' over the last three years. Chancer may as well have gone down the bookies. And even if the board did spend £8m this season (as someone suggested), if we don't go up then they'll be expected to spend the same next season, and the season after.

They haven't got the money to do that. So, 'well they should sell up then'. Yes, to some fucker like Chancer, or Venkys, or Duchalet, or SISU because there's a lot more of those about than there are genuine benefactors.

We all want to see CW backed but not all of us want the board to take high risk gambles just when we're back on track because high risk gambles are more likely to fail than succeed.

As I said on a different thread, I can't believe people are wanting us to spend money because it's a sign of ambition. Not to me it isn't, it's a sign that someone is willing to gamble and those in charge are unlikely (and rightly so IMO) to take a big gamble because they've been stung before doing that. If we were 10 points clear then they may well have taken the gamble but we're not.

For me, a sign to CW of ambition is that they meet (or exceed) what he will no doubt have been promised (and probably agreed to) as part of the budget for the season but that's an amount none of us will know so all we can do is surmise and moan if it's not what we'd like.

 

[BushBlade]

Here's the top spending clubs in the Premiere League for summer 2017

Premier League club's money spent on transfers this Summer.

Man City - £217.3m
Chelsea - £202m
Man Utd - £169.5m
Everton - £152.9m
Liverpool - £82.9m
Tottenham - £82.1m

5 of the top 6 spenders make up the top 5 of the Premiere League.

Seriously Hardy what do you make of this if spending 'aint' the answer?

And just for good measure the BOTTOM/lowest 4 spenders are in the bottom 7 of the league.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-09-01/manchester-city-top-the-premier-league-spending-table/
It would appear that spending big dough actually is the answer if firstly you have big dough to spend and secondly a manager who can spend it wisely.

On the other hand, if you look at net spend over the last five years, Spurs have spent nowt. And still managed to break into the top four.

Obviously the general trend in football is that clubs that spend money tend to do better than those that don't but there are still enough anomalies to show that it's not a necessity. The bottom line is that if the owners haven't got it, they haven't got it and there's fuck all we can do about that. By 'we', I mean the support.

The club can do its best to get everything right on and off the pitch and if they do, we'll do better than the clubs who think throwing money at it is the only thing that matters. It's just a shame you get these twats like Wolves who seem to be doing things right and throwing money at it (and bear in mind they have been spending money since they got relegated, had four years of parachute payments and changed owners who've invested again, it didn't happen overnight).

 

[I should coco]

If spending say £50-£60m guaranteed the Premier League, then even with only one season there you are looking at about £160m.

All 72 FL clubs would be on the phone to their bank managers outlining this marvelous investment that triples the original stake.

Spending £50m guarantees the square root of sweet FA.

For those still in doubt, just look at the mess at S6.

 

[mosbolad]

When I said big dough I didn't mean the equivalent of a Man city budget in our league. That clearly is likely to work. But spending out of our means like £4m+ to gamble on the prem. is exactly the sort of thing that could de-rail us.

The battle for the top 4 in the premier league isn't exactly a fair equivalent to getting into the playoffs for the championship. And you should look at teams like Burnley that are 7th that show you a small budget can go a long way. Again - look at Huddersfield. I think everyone would agree with the exception of Leicester it is EXTREMELY difficult to break into the top 4 of the prem. league yet time and time again a well run shrewd championship club on a limited budget makes the playoff. That should be us this year and we shouldn't out do ourselves due to the banana skins involved.

I agree Hardy and our unlikey position in 6th makes folk (including myself) think if we spent, maybe we can crack it and get promoted. Realistically a mid table finish would be a great result . Just going back to league 1 it appears we were one of the big spenders and I bet biggest wage bill (or thereabouts), so it can and does 'buy' success but only if everything else is correct, manager team spirit etc. Only need to look at Wednesdedsedday to see what big spending and not getting everything else right does.

Wilder can unearth gems AND get them playing. Who's to say if given the budget he couldn't unearth a championship gem and gem them playing like a prem player?

We (I) all thought we had struck gold when the Saudi Sheikh gave us a quid but as yet the big investment doesn't seem to have materialised.

Personally I enjoy a local club run by the local scrap man so I'm not at all bothered about spending big. I like football for lots of reasons. BUT.....Get it right on and off the field and spending big, if you can afford it, does work.

 

[mosbolad]

What's criminal about not spending money you haven't got?

Erm........

 

[super_pig]

Very difficult not to have total respect for how Wolves are going about things this season.

They go & cope with the pressure of being top by battering yet another very good side this evening. They really are away & gone now.

Just had a check & found out that, at this stage of the season, they're NINE points better off than what they were when they strolled to the Division Three title four seasons ago!

But, like has been said, they're hardly the only big buck merchants in the division this season. WTF's happened to the rest of the big spenders?! - where's their guaranteed promotion?!



P.S. Great O/P. Totally agree - let's keep building & doing it properly.

yeah 9 points ahead with their collection of 15 million pound ringers
we beat them though

 

[blade too long]

Again, no one is expecting that.

again what oes significant mean then

theres threads questioning how long Wilder will stay without some big input
which you keeep saying there arent but they definitely are

 

[blade too long]

Here's the top spending clubs in the Premiere League for summer 2017

Premier League club's money spent on transfers this Summer.

Man City - £217.3m
Chelsea - £202m
Man Utd - £169.5m
Everton - £152.9m
Liverpool - £82.9m
Tottenham - £82.1m

5 of the top 6 spenders make up the top 5 of the Premiere League.

Seriously Hardy what do you make of this if spending 'aint' the answer?

And just for good measure the BOTTOM/lowest 4 spenders are in the bottom 7 of the league.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-09-01/manchester-city-top-the-premier-league-spending-table/
It would appear that spending big dough actually is the answer if firstly you have big dough to spend and secondly a manager who can spend it wisely.

spurs have been spending huge sums for years and have very little to show for it
liverpools not won a title in 30 years, must have spent over a billion in that time

all these have huge investors
the prem is a reflection on big spending purely on the ridiculous sums spent
even mourinhos whinging about citys spending

the championship is not

2 of the 3 promoted last season brighton and huddersfield were not in the top 8 biggest spenders
if it was only money the 3 relegated clubs would return every year , but only 1 only makes it most seasons

 

[Esablade]

again what oes significant mean then

theres threads questioning how long Wilder will stay without some big input
which you keeep saying there arent but they definitely are

Think you’re confusing me with someone else.

I don’t mention ‘significant spending’ ( I’d equate that with the top end Championship spenders)..neither do I question how long Wilder will stay at the club due to current spending levels nor deny others are posting such threads.

I am a little puzzled ( as are many Blades) at our spending levels this season considering the ‘game changing investment once we reach the Championship’ comments, our reduced cost’s last season, much higher TV revenue and the unexpected bonus of the Walker/Maguire sales this season.

Wilder may well be able to wheel and deal and get us kicking on into,that top six, maybe even second with what he’s got to play with....and that’s fantastic but it doesn’t change the fact that relatively, he’s working on one of the lowest budget’s in the Championship.

 

[blade too long]

Think you’re confusing me with someone else.

I don’t mention ‘significant spending’ ( I’d equate that with the top end Championship spenders)..neither do I question how long Wilder will stay at the club due to current spending levels nor deny others are posting such threads.

I am a little puzzled ( as are many Blades) at our spending levels this season considering the ‘game changing investment once we reach the Championship’ comments, our reduced cost’s last season, much higher TV revenue and the unexpected bonus of the Walker/Maguire sales this season.

Wilder may well be able to wheel and deal and get us kicking on into,that top six, maybe even second with what he’s got to play with....and that’s fantastic but it doesn’t change the fact that relatively, he’s working on one of the lowest budget’s in the Championship.

We have yet to see how much will be spent its 4 full weeks before the window closes , dont understand why some think we have to rush through several buys in the opening 72 hors of the year , when most are still on holiday .
I never said it was you asking for huge investment but there again game changing as a term gives no clue as to the level we need to spend
150 k for Leon was game changing , but even I think we can do much better.
As a club take out the prem years and if weve spent 3m its been a lot for us
Game changing is so vague , people will read differing values into it'
If we get in 3/4 decent players , 1 or 2 buys and maybe 1 or 2 decent prem loans thatd be game changing enough for me
I believe we have already got a decent squad that just needs a little enhancing
I wont offer a set sum to improve us as we dont know what bargains Chris has lined up

 

[mosbolad]

spurs have been spending huge sums for years and have very little to show for it
liverpools not won a title in 30 years, must have spent over a billion in that time

all these have huge investors
the prem is a reflection on big spending purely on the ridiculous sums spent
even mourinhos whinging about citys spending

the championship is not

2 of the 3 promoted last season brighton and huddersfield were not in the top 8 biggest spenders
if it was only money the 3 relegated clubs would return every year , but only 1 only makes it most seasons

The Blades and Bolton had the largest wage bills in league 1. Was this just coincidental to them gaining promotion?

Of course it doesn't guarantee promotion but it's quite obvious really. Good players earn more money than average players. Good players cost more to buy than average players. Good players when managed by a good manager such as Wilder win games.

You've said it yourself. The prem is a reflection of big spending. I cant see how this wouldn't apply to other leagues and indeed wage bills and player spending show that it does. I don't see why it is such a surprise.

There will always be anomalies of team doing well through excellent management with relatively less money, but in football, money spent correctly and teams managed well buys success.

 

[Esablade]

We have yet to see how much will be spent its 4 full weeks before the window closes , dont understand why some think we have to rush through several buys in the opening 72 hors of the year , when most are still on holiday .
I never said it was you asking for huge investment but there again game changing as a term gives no clue as to the level we need to spend
150 k for Leon was game changing , but even I think we can do much better.
As a club take out the prem years and if weve spent 3m its been a lot for us
Game changing is so vague , people will read differing values into it'
If we get in 3/4 decent players , 1 or 2 buys and maybe 1 or 2 decent prem loans thatd be game changing enough for me
I believe we have already got a decent squad that just needs a little enhancing
I wont offer a set sum to improve us as we dont know what bargains Chris has lined up

Wilder stated he’d like to get the business sorted quickly and I’m not sure many players are on their holiday’s over the Xmas period?

I agree that we have a decent first eleven on any given day....the squad however is paper thin on quality which resulted in Slater getting on the pitch when Wilder said realistically, he should be nowhere near the first team.

I’m as idealistic as most and if we got four good players in ( two bought, two loans) that could be great but why are we always relying on Wilder to unearth ‘bargains’?

It’s a big ask...especially in January when good players are at a premium.

P.S- I don’t see much vagueness in stating we’ll receive game changing once we reach the Championship or how that could be interpreted diffferently? (Clarke turned out to be a game changer but the fee paid for him wasn’t)...we’ve reached the Championship and appear to be operating on similar levels of investment (covering the relatively small losses) as last season...who knows, maybe we’ll break even this year.

 

[NuddysGloves]

If spending say £50-£60m guaranteed the Premier League, then even with only one season there you are looking at about £160m.

All 72 FL clubs would be on the phone to their bank managers outlining this marvelous investment that triples the original stake.

Spending £50m guarantees the square root of sweet FA.

For those still in doubt, just look at the mess at S6.

I guess I'll cancel my application to Dragon's Den then.....

 

[blade too long]

Wilder stated he’d like to get the business sorted quickly and I’m not sure many players are on their holiday’s over the Xmas period?

I agree that we have a decent first eleven on any given day....the squad however is paper thin on quality which resulted in Slater getting on the pitch when Wilder said realistically, he should be nowhere near the first team.

I’m as idealistic as most and if we got four good players in ( two bought, two loans) that could be great but why are we always relying on Wilder to unearth ‘bargains’?

It’s a big ask...especially in January when good players are at a premium.

P.S- I don’t see much vagueness in stating we’ll receive game changing once we reach the Championship or how that could be interpreted diffferently? (Clarke turned out to be a game changer but the fee paid for him wasn’t)...we’ve reached the Championship and appear to be operating on similar levels of investment (covering the relatively small losses) as last season...who knows, maybe we’ll break even this year.

progression , we are benifitting from increased incomes but its going to take time to make a significant difference to us
like getting the money from walkers sell on , and Maguire who knows when that gets deposited

Are they paid in lump sums or in instalments
apparently took us over 12 months to get the 4m from Everton for Jakielka

We are not awash with money
last thing we want is to over spend and get no where
see sheffield wednesday as how not to do it

some say 30 m investment from tuna man
game changing , close but no cigar
then again we could spend 5m extra on fees and wages and get up
so 5m could be game changing

 

[Esablade]

The Blades and Bolton had the largest wage bills in league 1. Was this just coincidental to them gaining promotion?

Of course it doesn't guarantee promotion but it's quite obvious really. Good players earn more money than average players. Good players cost more to buy than average players. Good players when managed by a good manager such as Wilder win games.

You've said it yourself. The prem is a reflection of big spending. I cant see how this wouldn't apply to other leagues and indeed wage bills and player spending show that it does. I don't see why it is such a surprise.

There will always be anomalies of team doing well through excellent management with relatively less money, but in football, money spent correctly and teams managed well buys success.

I’d suggest the relegated teams Bolton, MK and Charlton had higher budgets than us last season...especially with Wilder reducing our’s over the summer...believe Charltons was around £10 million at one point...

 

[BushBlade]

If spending say £50-£60m guaranteed the Premier League, then even with only one season there you are looking at about £160m.

All 72 FL clubs would be on the phone to their bank managers outlining this marvelous investment that triples the original stake.

Spending £50m guarantees the square root of sweet FA.

For those still in doubt, just look at the mess at S6.

There are still 'investors' who are prepared to take this gamble, like the consortium that has just taken over Barnsley. But the difference between them and someone like McCabe is that once they've spent the limit they have set themselves, if they haven't gone up they'll asset strip the club to cut their losses and then walk away, or try to run at break even and hope they get lucky with a Bassett type manager who can get results without spending money. They're high stakes gamblers who use community assets as betting slips.

 

[HarryBassett]

How many teams in the championship have spent more money than us this season

 

[Esablade]

progression , we are benifitting from increased incomes but its going to take time to make a significant difference to us
like getting the money from walkers sell on , and Maguire who knows when that gets deposited

Are they paid in lump sums or in instalments
apparently took us over 12 months to get the 4m from Everton for Jakielka

We are not awash with money
last thing we want is to over spend and get no where
see sheffield wednesday as how not to do it

some say 30 m investment from tuna man
game changing , close but no cigar
then we could spend 5m extra on fees and wages and get up
so 5m could be game changing

Not sure why t’pigs get brought up every time anyone talks about Wilder, our squad and United’s budget...it’s like some kind of fairy story to scare the kids and not really applicable to our situation.

Wilder has stated he’s not going to ‘spunk the owners money away’ and going on his record, I’d trust him to get VFM on the whole.

 

[blade too long]

Not sure why t’pigs get brought up every time anyone talks about Wilder, our squad and United’s budget...it’s like some kind of fairy story to scare the kids and not really applicable to our situation.

Wilder has stated he’s not going to ‘spunk the owners money away’ and going on his record, I’d trust him to get VFM on the whole.

using piggies to show game changing can mean different levels of investment
not wednesday then
fulham and villa both spunked far more on game changing investment last season#
Brighton , did what we need to do , maintain a good squad and tweek a bit
focused on a few reasonablely priced players, rather than throwing vast sums on individuals

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

What's criminal about not spending money you haven't got?

For the 5000 milionth time no one is saying spend millions of pounds if mccabe and the prince cant afford to and therefore putting the club at risk.
But if mccabe and the prince can only afford to stump together enough for wilder to sign leomard when we need much more then him im afraid mccabe should do the right thing for the ambition of the club and find someone who can. (And no i dont want someone to come in and spend like chansiri)

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

How many teams in the championship have spent more money than us this season

The majority of them

 

[Tunstall Fred]

For the 5000 milionth time no one is saying spend millions of pounds if mccabe and the prince cant afford to and therefore putting the club at risk.
But if mccabe and the prince can only afford to stump together enough for wilder to sign leomard when we need much more then him im afraid mccabe should do the right thing for the ambition of the club and find someone who can. (And no i dont want someone to come in and spend like chansiri)

There is a big queue of potential investors willing to buy United,but McCabe is so crooked that he won't sell up,not when he's taking millions out of the club every season

 

[VLYDONIMIR]

There is a big queue of potential investors willing to buy United,but McCabe is so crooked that he won't sell up,not when he's taking millions out of the club every season

''PHEW!

and on that bombshell... it's goodnight from me.''

 

[BushBlade]

''PHEW!

and on that bombshell... it's goodnight from me.''

And it's goodnight from him.