Southampton - Gamesmanship to another level

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Fucking hell.
What a set of fucking light weights.
Billy’s challenge was not a straight red. Sure he was over the ball as he miss timed it but his leg wasn’t straight/locked, his studs weren’t showing and he didn’t jump in with two feet off the ground in an uncontrolled manner. He didn’t connect with the guy’s ankle or his knee. He toe poked the guy’s fucking shin pad so there is no way the lad felt any pain whatsoever. It would not have broken the lad’s leg. It wasn’t a dangerous challenge (unless you think a slight graze is worth crying about).
It’s a booking and no more FFS.
 

Kenilworth said:
Fucking hell.
What a set of fucking light weights.
Billy’s challenge was not a straight red. Sure he was over the ball as he miss timed it but his leg wasn’t straight/locked, his studs weren’t showing and he didn’t jump in with two feet off the ground in an uncontrolled manner. He didn’t connect with the guy’s ankle or his knee. He toe poked the guy’s fucking shin pad so there is no way the lad felt any pain whatsoever. It would not have broken the lad’s leg. It wasn’t a dangerous challenge (unless you think a slight graze is worth crying about).
It’s a booking and no more FFS.
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So the difference between a yellow and a red is how much it hurts? I don’t believe you wouldn’t have been asking for a red if it was against us.
 
stringer said:
He doesn’t have to check VAR in that situation, it’s done automatically. So he delayed the taking of the corner while it was checked
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'The Premier League new boys — trailing to a Moussa Djenepo wonder strike — felt they should have had a spot-kick in the 75th minute when James Ward-Prowse appeared to handle a cross with an outstretched arm in the area.

Referee Lee Mason checked with Stockley Park but instead gave a corner to the home side.'

Link

 
Flatulent_Bob said:
So the difference between a yellow and a red is how much it hurts? I don’t believe you wouldn’t have been asking for a red if it was against us.
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No it isn’t. I explained very clearly why in the post. And no I wouldn’t be calling for a red for a foul like that. Read it again.
Oh, and thanks for telling me what I should think and effectively calling me a liar when you have no clue, whatsoever.
 
Kenilworth said:
No it isn’t. I explained why in the post. And no I wouldn’t be calling for a red for a foul like that. Read it again
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I can certainly see how a red can be given, and it wasn’t a clear and obvious error by the ref.
It was really daft from Billy and if you wouldn’t have been calling for it, you’d be in the minority.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I can certainly see how a red can be given, and it wasn’t a clear and obvious error by the ref.
It was really daft from Billy and if you wouldn’t have been calling for it, you’d be in the minority.
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I genuinely wouldn’t have. I know what a dangerous tackle is and that wasn’t one. If a Southampton player had done it to one of ours I’d expect a free kick and a booking and nothing more.

AND if, say Norwood had done what Ward-Prowse did I would have expected a penalty to be awarded for the handball against my team.
 
grafikhaus said:
'The Premier League new boys — trailing to a Moussa Djenepo wonder strike — felt they should have had a spot-kick in the 75th minute when James Ward-Prowse appeared to handle a cross with an outstretched arm in the area.

Referee Lee Mason checked with Stockley Park but instead gave a corner to the home side.'

Link
Click to expand...
I didn’t say he didn’t check.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
This isn’t a problem with VAR, it’s how the PL have said they want it used to stop refs going over to the halfway line all the time. They will only overule the referee if it’s a clear and obvious error.
The red card would have been screamed for by everyone it if was against us, and seeing it again it’s certainly not an obvious error from the ref. He’s caught him below the knee when his head has gone and was really clumsy. It was a stupid challenge from our captain which was a shame as he’d looked really lively when he came on.
I thought the ref wasn’t even handed in the way he saw some of their challenges but our goal was offside, the red is fair, and it wasn’t a clear hand ball. VAR did it’s job as asked.
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It was a clear handball and Mason got the decision wrong big time
 
Tom Daley could have learned a thing or two about diving from them, they were up and down like yo-yo's the whole game, as if made of tissue paper.

That doesn't address the main issues though; we had enough chances to win that game, terrible in front of goal, and their player seemed to waltz round four or five of our players before scoring. Surely someone takes him down and takes a yellow for the team.

Handball in the box, not given? FFS
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I can certainly see how a red can be given, and it wasn’t a clear and obvious error by the ref.
It was really daft from Billy and if you wouldn’t have been calling for it, you’d be in the minority.
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When the ref went for his pocket did you expect a red? No one on the jss did, I sit about 10 yards away, Mason did look at the linesman on his way over which is a worry because he was utter dogshit all game.
 
Last week the PL admitted that they’d made four mistakes so far with VAR, failing to overturn clear and obvious mistakes. On that basis I expected more bravery in overturning the ref’s calls this weekend. But nope - no penalty. So another mistake.

As for the offside, I’d not dispute it’s offside, but what is the current definition of interfering with play? Egan didn’t touch the ball or anyone else, so I’m sure they’ve been allowed to slide in the past.

Billy’s card - a bit unlucky but very stupid and won’t be overturned by VAR in a million years. That’s all she wrote.
 
Deadbat said:
Agreed. It's a bit tiresome blaming officials. Despite all the vitriol towards Lee Mason I am not sure he got much wrong today. I'll get panned for that but can any one tell me the bad decisions? The handball went to VAR and did not seem clear cut at real speed.
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we have to decide if we join in with the cheating or not. the sending off was absolute bollocks.. bill toe poked his shin with no force behind it.. the lad went down like he’d been shot by a sniper..
the handball was handball watch the motd footage he scoops the ball away from joc .
apart from the obvious one on George, did we get one other decision??
 
Kenilworth said:
Fucking hell.
What a set of fucking light weights.
Billy’s challenge was not a straight red. Sure he was over the ball as he miss timed it but his leg wasn’t straight/locked, his studs weren’t showing and he didn’t jump in with two feet off the ground in an uncontrolled manner. He didn’t connect with the guy’s ankle or his knee. He toe poked the guy’s fucking shin pad so there is no way the lad felt any pain whatsoever. It would not have broken the lad’s leg. It wasn’t a dangerous challenge (unless you think a slight graze is worth crying about).
It’s a booking and no more FFS.
Click to expand...
agree totally
 

Flatulent_Bob said:
I can certainly see how a red can be given, and it wasn’t a clear and obvious error by the ref.
It was really daft from Billy and if you wouldn’t have been calling for it, you’d be in the minority.
Click to expand...
Seriously, I was gobsmacked when he showed Billy a red. Happened nearly in front of us.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
This isn’t a problem with VAR, it’s how the PL have said they want it used to stop refs going over to the halfway line all the time. They will only overule the referee if it’s a clear and obvious error.
The red card would have been screamed for by everyone it if was against us, and seeing it again it’s certainly not an obvious error from the ref. He’s caught him below the knee when his head has gone and was really clumsy. It was a stupid challenge from our captain which was a shame as he’d looked really lively when he came on.
I thought the ref wasn’t even handed in the way he saw some of their challenges but our goal was offside, the red is fair, and it wasn’t a clear hand ball. VAR did it’s job as asked.
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I’m not disputing the red. I’m just pointing out that it’s unlikely VAR will overrule refs in a subjective case. The handball is one of these instances and could have been given but wasn’t.

The challenge by Sharp was no worse than the assault on Baldock by Vestergaard but because it was a body check and not a foot it’s a yellow and not checked by VAR. It’s bollocks.
 
Wether it was worthy of a red or not I think Armstrong should be ashamed of himself ,he was on the floor for a good give minutes acting like he'd had his leg broke when we can all clearly see he has ( at worst ) had his shin pad grazed by Billy's toe
Pathetic
 
To anyone that has actually played football, that is NEVER a red card. Hence the reaction of Wright and Shearer last night. The problem we have is that referees are mainly 'career' officials that have learned the game mainly from watching, and reading a bloody rule-book.
 
sitwell said:
He is wrong.
I was much much closer than Wilder and looking face on at it ,it was at worse a yellow.
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If we appealed it do you think it would get overturned?

Some refs might have given a yellow but being marked by an assessor and closely scrutinised then he made the right decision. Not seen anyone neutral/reports that suggest it was a poor decision with most conceding it was a red card.
 
Rudders said:
Just wanted to start a thread to share my frustration with the epic timewasting, playacting, injury feigning, niggly fouling, head-holding, yard stealing, foul throwing Saints team today. A Southampton team that should really be an embarrasment to themselves and their town. It's basic cheating but I suppose we've got to get used to it when a team is 70% international players and managed by a a grey pyjama wearing foreigner who doesn't have such a good sense of fair play and honest contest.
They celebrated like they had won the League at the end. Annoying and cringey. Imagine if they actually beat a top 6 team.
I used to quite like them in the days of Le Tissier but they can sod off after today.
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It's not how I saw it. They're the away team, they're entitled to come & break up our rhythm it's called game management & it happens a lot more at the top level.

Celebrating like they'd won the league? Not really. They brought a huge following, probably enjoyed a load of pre-match scoops in the sunshine & they were delighted to come away with a vital 3 points from a really tight encounter. Any win on the road, particularly for a bottom 10 team, is massive in this division where survival is everything. I would expect us to celebrate similarly.

The sour grapes stuff is a bit ridiculous. The referee got almost every decision right yesterday & let the game flow as much as possible. The handball was debatable, the other 2 were clear & obvious & he got them spot on.

It's a tough one to take & results like today do unfortunately spell trouble for us this season, but we have to get used to it & back Wilder to find the right solutions. Pissing & moaning about referees & opposition fans isn't the answer. Today we lost because in a very good, close game we gave away a stupid goal & couldn't take any of our 3 or 4 excellent chances.
 
It was a stupid tackle and it gave the ref the option of a red. We are just arguing semantics after that.
 
Comes with the territory in the Prem , just like our first season back n the championship you’ve got to wise up to it . My biggest issue was with the ref .. gave us absolutely fuck all yesterday..
 
It's this 'the ref gave us nothing, he was biased and they gave us everything' attitude that is boring and to be frank completely inaccurate. We had it last time under Warnock and he added fuel to this by moaning after every decision.

So far this season I am not sure theres anything that big that has cost us in terms of a rank bad decision. It was the same yesterday.

What were all these fouls that we should have had yesterday or went against us? One or two could have come out way (Stevens one looked like it might have been a foul) but equally we got away with some stuff today when even before the goal on 2 or3 other attacks when they broke and we cynically tried to bring them down. I am not sure I can recall too many outrageous decisions and felt the officials had nothing to do with the defeat.

The bleating about players going down under little contact I was part of but it ain't going to change. It's a long time since we were up at this level and the way games have been reffed has changed. Fouls are given for any kind of contact if players run at opponents and are taken off balance. Players will dive and exaggerate but we have to be able to be cuter in aspects. I don't like it but that's the way it is.

I don't want us to be like last time we were up there with this ridiculous no-one is giving us anything mentality. Fortunately Wilder has not seen this biased refereeing others have and not blamed the officials for defeats. This is refreshing to the embarrassing nonsense Warnock used to spout.
 
Deadbat said:
It's this 'the ref gave us nothing, he was biased and they gave us everything' attitude that is boring and to be frank completely inaccurate. We had it last time under Warnock and he added fuel to this by moaning after every decision.

So far this season I am not sure theres anything that big that has cost us in terms of a rank bad decision. It was the same yesterday.

What were all these fouls that we should have had yesterday or went against us? One or two could have come out way (Stevens one looked like it might have been a foul) but equally we got away with some stuff today when even before the goal on 2 or3 other attacks when they broke and we cynically tried to bring them down. I am not sure I can recall too many outrageous decisions and felt the officials had nothing to do with the defeat.

The bleating about players going down under little contact I was part of but it ain't going to change. It's a long time since we were up at this level and the way games have been reffed has changed. Fouls are given for any kind of contact if players run at opponents and are taken off balance. Players will dive and exaggerate but we have to be able to be cuter in aspects. I don't like it but that's the way it is.

I don't want us to be like last time we were up there with this ridiculous no-one is giving us anything mentality. Fortunately Wilder has not seen this biased refereeing others have and not blamed the officials for defeats. This is refreshing to the embarrassing nonsense Warnock used to spout.
Click to expand...
whilst i agree with you about Colin, i think chris is being cuter than Warnock that's all .. and it was a blatant hand ball
 

Deadbat said:
It's this 'the ref gave us nothing, he was biased and they gave us everything' attitude that is boring and to be frank completely inaccurate. We had it last time under Warnock and he added fuel to this by moaning after every decision.

So far this season I am not sure theres anything that big that has cost us in terms of a rank bad decision. It was the same yesterday.

What were all these fouls that we should have had yesterday or went against us? One or two could have come out way (Stevens one looked like it might have been a foul) but equally we got away with some stuff today when even before the goal on 2 or3 other attacks when they broke and we cynically tried to bring them down. I am not sure I can recall too many outrageous decisions and felt the officials had nothing to do with the defeat.

The bleating about players going down under little contact I was part of but it ain't going to change. It's a long time since we were up at this level and the way games have been reffed has changed. Fouls are given for any kind of contact if players run at opponents and are taken off balance. Players will dive and exaggerate but we have to be able to be cuter in aspects. I don't like it but that's the way it is.

I don't want us to be like last time we were up there with this ridiculous no-one is giving us anything mentality. Fortunately Wilder has not seen this biased refereeing others have and not blamed the officials for defeats. This is refreshing to the embarrassing nonsense Warnock used to spout.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on most of what happened yesterday. But VAR’s unwillingness to overturn the penalty decision was pathetic. And that cost us.

I forgive the ref for all his decisions - it’s difficult to get everything right. But VAR.... It’s pathetic.
 
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