Smart recruitment...

[jt64]

Very true. Any model that spits out Cáceres as a £1m player could be outputting any shite.

Said model probably as much of Caceres than the average fan who declares him as shite, despite not having eyes

 

[Houston_Blade]

What on earth would having a physical location(s) across the continent actually do? Other than haemorrhage money? It's 2026, any game of any note is streamed. Christ, I can see the goals of my local village team ten divisions below United within hours of the game finishing. It doesn't need people all over the place, it just needs people that know what they are looking for and have the ability to sift through lots of data to find it. Once you've done that, THEN if you, really, really need the luddite approach of watching an actual game in person (where there's an enormous chance you get the wrong impression due to sample size), you do it.

This

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think Wilder was pretty transparent regards what he liked about Cannon from a data point of view when he signed his time at Stoke showed he was good playing on the shoulder of the defence (something Wilder repeated almost constantly about him when he signed), he’s a clean finisher something wilder has valued in all his strikers outside Mcburnie and he won a decent amount of aerial duels something Wilder has looked for consistently in his number 9’s.

Added onto that as Carlton has said he fit the profile of what Wilder looks for in a players character came through at a top academy dropped down to try and get regular football and we had personal contacts Wilder trusted who could tell us what type of person he was. That ticks all the boxes really and that will be why we pursued him as hard as we did.

That said you can get players of a similar profile but without the theoretical upside for much less than we paid.

The issue in paying a high fee for a toolsy prospect is that in this era United have consistently been bad at developing strikers within the first team environment. We’ve done very very well with finished articles like Mcburnie, Bamford, Sharp, Didzy and BBD for a spell. We’ve consistently failed to develop toolsy prospects either home grown or purchased in. Osula, Jebbo, Brewster, Cannon. Let’s hope One bucks that trend but our track record is against him.

The outlier in that is Ndiaye but I’d argue it was clear he was a truly exceptional talent as soon as he hit the first team and much of the technical development to make him that player had been done in the academy set up.

Cannon hits it pretty hard and he seems to have ok conditioning. I'm struggling to see the potential upside outside of that, especially when his passing is so, so bad in both vision and technique

 

[jt64]

Cannon hits it pretty hard and he seems to have ok conditioning. I'm struggling to see the potential upside outside of that, especially when his passing is so, so bad in both vision and technique

It was clearly just Wilder doing the whole "this is the player that can get us over the line" and the board idiotically pandering to such short term thinking

 

[Striker]

All the discussion on this thread bounces, in general, around AI or eyes on.
Personally I believe both are equally important,along with asking about the players character.

However when all the elements are weighed up there's 2 other major factors that come into it

1, Who else wants him
2, What are his wage demands.

When you take everything into account Sheffield United have a very narrow margin for error.

 

[Ron_Justice]

What on earth would having a physical location(s) across the continent actually do? Other than haemorrhage money? It's 2026, any game of any note is streamed. Christ, I can see the goals of my local village team ten divisions below United within hours of the game finishing. It doesn't need people all over the place, it just needs people that know what they are looking for and have the ability to sift through lots of data to find it. Once you've done that, THEN if you, really, really need the luddite approach of watching an actual game in person (where there's an enormous chance you get the wrong impression due to sample size), you do it.

Absolutely, the data driven approach is the modern, cost effective method. However, if it's as simple as 'it just needs people that know what they are looking for' then surely there would be no craft to the process and all teams would be able to spot a gem?

I'd also raise an additional issue - 'any game of note is streamed' yep, adult football has multicamera set ups and is available online. What about youth games*? Scouting for a club like ours - budget first, develop and sell - as I see it, is about finding the hidden gems, not the Jamie Vardy's/Ian Wrights of the world, overlooked, semi pro in the Mans game. It's about finding the Iliman Ndiaye's. Young, on the fringes, how do those players get discovered?

*This is the coverage for United's youth set-up for the U18 game v's the pigs. Maybe there are other cameras set up that are for internal use, I don't know, but in terms of international, grass routes access, I absolutely think actually being there would offer a greater insight:

 

[alcoblade]

Contrast our AI recruitment with Hearts in the less than a year that Tony Bloom has been fully on board. Claudio Braga, a Portuguese player who was playing in the Norwegian 2nd Division not so long ago. He would be great for the left hand side of our attack. These players are out there, the smart clubs find them.

They just need Tony Bloom's resources.

"Starlizard: This is his crown jewel—a secretive, Camden-based betting syndicate. Starlizard operates like a hedge fund, using proprietary algorithms and a MASSIVE TEAM of analysts to predict sports outcomes (mostly football) with incredible precision. They don't just "guess"; they analyze everything from weather patterns to player psychology. "

 

[Carlton Blade]

There is a very happy medium between what Brighton/Hearts ddoo and exclusively signing neat and tidy footballers with below average athleticism who've played in the English leagues

 

[alcoblade]

There is a very happy medium between what Brighton/Hearts ddoo and exclusively signing neat and tidy footballers with below average athleticism who've played in the English leagues

Well exactly. So it's probably best to not start by citing Tony Bloom and his massive team of analysts and proprietary algorithms, which was the point I was addressing.

And as I said earlier, I'd love to know your insight into our current recruitment processes?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Well exactly. So it's probably best not to start by citing Tony Bloom and his massive team of analysts and proprietary algorithms, which was the point I was addressing.

And as I said earlier, I'd love to know your insight into our current recruitment processes?

Are you looking for further insight than the long list of players the club has signed with similar traits?

 

[alcoblade]

Are you looking for further insight than the long list of players the club has signed with similar traits?

No. I'm just exposing the fact that you haven't got about our recruitment processes, despite continuing to criticise them.

"What United have done, is blamed ''AI' and used it as a excuse to refuse to do anything other than 'go with their gut'"

The biggest pile of shite we've signed as a group has been using an ai model, and lots of people were waxing lyrical about us getting all modern back then. Be careful what you wish for, it's not nearly as easy as the burger flippers on here would have you believe.

 

[Carlton Blade]

No. I'm just exposing the fact that you haven't got about our recruitment processes, despite continuing to criticise them.

The biggest pile of shite we've signed as a group has been using an ai model, and lots of people were waxing lyrical about us getting all modern back them. Be careful what you wish for. It's not nearly as easy as the burger flippers on here would have you believe.

"Exposing"

I don't drop little hints about "what I've heard" because I'm not 12. When I do hear things, I say it United rely on personality and fit over and above any other clubs at this level. Experience in the English leagues and a personal reference from someone Wilder likes is the gold seal.

I agree, there's definitely no correlation between the recruitment process, the person doing the rerecruiting and the plsyers signed

The biggest wastes of money and the ones that definitively hurt the most were the signings from last January. Getting that right waste difference between Championship and PL football and Cannon costs £3m a year in wages and amortisation.

 

[alcoblade]

"
I don't drop little hints about "what I've heard" because I'm not 12. "

yes, very mature.

 

[jt64]

They just need Tony Bloom's resources.

"Starlizard: This is his crown jewel—a secretive, Camden-based betting syndicate. Starlizard operates like a hedge fund, using proprietary algorithms and a MASSIVE TEAM of analysts to predict sports outcomes (mostly football) with incredible precision. They don't just "guess"; they analyze everything from weather patterns to player psychology. "

Which, now that Ipswich have gone up, are available on license to the Championship to the highest bidder

 

[alcoblade]

Which, now that Ipswich have gone up, are available on license to the Championship to the highest bidder

Which sadly won't be us - it'll surely be a newly relegated team, or one with parachute money.

 

[Yogi]

Cannon hits it pretty hard and he seems to have ok conditioning. I'm struggling to see the potential upside outside of that, especially when his passing is so, so bad in both vision and technique

I think the upside vision was if you could develop his all round game you could end up with a bottom half of the prem number 9.

Agree though we shouldve seen his all round game was so deficient that outcome was unlikely and we probably should’ve self scouted to know we were unlikely to be the environment to develop that.

I think you also need to add into that the fee we paid for him. That type of fee at this level should’ve commanded a player who was already a plus player at championship level not a project player.

 

[LondonBlade89]

No. I'm just exposing the fact that you haven't got about our recruitment processes, despite continuing to criticise them.

"What United have done, is blamed ''AI' and used it as a excuse to refuse to do anything other than 'go with their gut'"

The biggest pile of shite we've signed as a group has been using an ai model, and lots of people were waxing lyrical about us getting all modern back then. Be careful what you wish for, it's not nearly as easy as the burger flippers on here would have you believe.

I see why the two of you are having a back and forth. But I’m not certain what you’re disagreeing over. Carlton Blade has given evidence to back up one of his main points around the pool of players we’re targeting being limited. I suppose the “we’re just going with our gut” line might have been a bit reductive but certainly wasn’t his main point. What’s your take on our transfer strategy alcoblade?

 

[alcoblade]

I see why the two of you are having a back and forth. But I’m not certain what you’re disagreeing over. Carlton Blade has given evidence to back up one of his main points around the pool of players we’re targeting being limited. I suppose the “we’re just going with our gut” line might have been a bit reductive but certainly wasn’t his main point. What’s your take on our transfer strategy alcoblade?

I'm not defending our transfer strategy, and I don't know what it is now we've canned the ai route, for now. Nobody does.

Talking about recent failures as evidence that it doesn't work is like looking at our failed ai adventure and declaring that using data doesn't work.

I'm happy (for now) to just wait and see. It's the constant inference (from people who haven't got a clue) that we now just go with Wilder's gut, that irks me.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I'm not defending our transfer strategy, and I don't know what it is now we've canned the ai route, for now. Nobody does.

Talking about recent failures as evidence that it doesn't work is like looking at our failed ai adventure and declaring that using data doesn't work.

I'm happy (for now) to just wait and see. It's the constant inference (from people who haven't got a clue) that we now just go with Wilder's gut, that irks me.

"Constant"

I've said what I know about how United do business under Wilder and what they use data for. You still seem to think that the players United sign isn't evidence of the transfer strategy

We'll see if it changes this summer. But what it has been in the past is100% established

 

[alcoblade]

"Constant"

I've said what I know about how United do business under Wilder and what they use data for. You still seem to think that the players United sign isn't evidence of the transfer strategy

We'll see if it changes this summer. But what it has been in the past is100% established

"Constant" wasn't aimed at you.

The "established" strategy has been very successful in the past, and less so lately. Let's see.

 

[Carlton Blade]

"Constant" wasn't aimed at you.

The "established" strategy has been very successful in the past, and less so lately. Let's see.

100%. Aug 16-Jan 19 is up there for the best value for money transfer business I can think of for any English club. Wilder deserves strong input into decisions. I just fear what he wants from a player may not be what wins now. Hopefully he proves me wrong