Shelvey - 'ref said if linesman puts his flag up - play on'

[spongebobblade]

He didn’t give it so it’s not an issue, they check every tackle for me as long as they are making fair decisions.

Your missing the point. Why look for something that quite obviously isn’t there in the first place? On the Wolves goal, Jiminez was offside in the first phase by a country mile, yet was allowed to cross for Doherty to score. He didn’t review that yet we were scrutinised for Lundstrams big toe in an identical situation at Spurs

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Your missing the point. Why look for something that quite obviously isn’t there in the first place? On the Wolves goal, Jiminez was offside in the first phase by a country mile, yet was allowed to cross for Doherty to score. He didn’t review that yet we were scrutinised for Lundstrams big toe in an identical situation at Spurs

Don't know why anyone is discussing VAR, its shit, end of.

 

[spongebobblade]

Don't know why anyone is discussing VAR, its shit, end of.

Because whether we like it or not we’re stuck with it now so if that’s the case it’s about time after half a season the refs association stopped fucking about and got there act together. Stop fucking with it, let the game flow and let everyone be clear on the rules and use it as and when it’s needed. Not every 10 fuckin minutes like at Wolves

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I cant fathom how someone thinks checking var for an incident occurring after play has stopped is ok. If jiminez wasnt offside he would have given a pen, is that right?

 

[Sheffsteel]

My opinion is that the lines man is a trained professional in line with play.
So how come the refs always trust their linesman and blow for offside in every instance
but in this case the ref choose to ignore his linesman?

Why did he do this?
Whats the rule? Should refs always ignore the ref and wave playon?
Logically it makes you wonder if linesman’s should have their flags removed and leave every offside decision for VAR to decide.

 

[oohaah]

I cant fathom how someone thinks checking var for an incident occurring after play has stopped is ok. If jiminez wasnt offside he would have given a pen, is that right?

I think they would have given the penalty which would have seen my laptop flying through the window. That sequence of events was completely ridiculous and i’m sure all the “play to the whistle” smart arses on here would be have come up with a new mantra, something like how completely unprofessional it is to stop playing just because the ref has blown up, or more likely “don’t play to the whistle”, everybody knows you can’t do that anymore with VAR.

 

[lakedistblade]

A pundit stated a couple of weeks ago there was going to be a problem when play continued after a lines mans flag for offside becuse of VAR. everyone has learned from this incident which will be referenced over and over again. Let's just see the reaction when an incorrect linesman flag affects play with Liverpool or Tootenham. It seems unfair to punish teams when a linesman has made a mistake that clearly affected play. Play to the whistle us a great mantra when your team is not affected by a discernible and collective halt in play.

 

[Trafford]

Ignoring the VAR aspect, which I know is difficult, what were we playing at from a defensive perspective? Egan was in the right back position, leaving Jack isolated in a one-on-one duel with Carroll, and Norwood just stood there while Shelvey ran past him, so what would have happened if the flag had stayed down, as it should have?

 

[Harrisblade]

Ignoring the VAR aspect, which I know is difficult, what were we playing at from a defensive perspective? Egan was in the right back position, leaving Jack isolated in a one-on-one duel with Carroll, and Norwood just stood there while Shelvey ran past him, so what would have happened if the flag had stayed down, as it should have?

Everyone would have run like fuck to try to prevent a goal being scored?
May not have worked - but they wouldn't have stood around waiting for a free kick.

 

[YES Blade]

Your missing the point. Why look for something that quite obviously isn’t there in the first place? On the Wolves goal, Jiminez was offside in the first phase by a country mile, yet was allowed to cross for Doherty to score. He didn’t review that yet we were scrutinised for Lundstrams big toe in an identical situation at Spurs

So what are you suggesting? There is a conspiracy against United by the refs and VAR?

 

[spongebobblade]

So what are you suggesting? There is a conspiracy against United by the refs and VAR?

Are you for real? I’m saying that Attwells performances have been poor at best and that there is a huge amount of confusion with regards the VAR interpretations. What seems fine in one game is ruled out in another. We’ve had half a season now and things are as bad if not worse than they were at the beginning of the season

 

[Top Cat 317]

In this article:

What the referee told Jonjo Shelvey ahead of VAR goal at Sheffield United

The Newcastle United midfielder's quick thinking earned Magpies their second goal in Bramall Lane win

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

So, the ref prepared Shelvey that he was going to allow play to carry on, before the incident occurred? Interesting! I'm assuming he made that instruction clear to all the players at the time?

Wasn't referee Stuart Atwell, also involved in the VAR decisions at Spurs a few weeks ago?

If one wasn't fair-minded about this, one could start to believe that Mr Atwell has it in for us!

If he didn't tell this to all of the others players, both sides, you would think it is strange. Also if this incident was the only time, in the entire match, he didn't blow the whistle when the flag went up, then you think he must have been training Shelvey to do what he did. Makes you wonder if is he one sided.

 

[BushBlade]

You can almost model it mathematically.
Refs are inconsistent. Always have been, always will be, because many decisions are subjective.
Adding a second ref multiplies this inconsistency
So, if you consider a decision, say a pen that isn’t an obvious ‘clean him out’ pen-
The ref can see it as a pen or not.
The VAR ref may have a different view but then has to decide if his view is different enough to actually overturn the ref’s initial decision. Different VAR refs will take slightly different approaches to this.
Effectively you get Inconsistency x Inconsistency = Inconsistency Squared.
Because of this, VAR will not work until the ref is allowed to review his decision on the pitch side screen.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

You can almost model it mathematically.
Refs are inconsistent. Always have been, always will be, because many decisions are subjective.
Adding a second ref multiplies this inconsistency
So, if you consider a decision, say a pen that isn’t an obvious ‘clean him out’ pen-
The ref can see it as a pen or not.
The VAR ref may have a different view but then has to decide if his view is different enough to actually overturn the ref’s initial decision. Different VAR refs will take slightly different approaches to this.
Effectively you get Inconsistency x Inconsistency = Inconsistency Squared.
Because of this, VAR will not work until the ref is allowed to review his decision on the pitch side screen.

VAR won’t work for football.

 

[RealMcCoy]

Why does it seem to work so well for rugby?
Is it because it is mostly only used when the ref asks for a review, and he remains the final arbiter for close decisions? Is it because they they are only mostly looking for “any reason why the try should not be awarded”, and are only taking advice from the off field official?
Officials other than the ref do bring issues to the attention of the ref, and these are routinely reviewed on-screen by both off field officials and the ref, but again, ultimately the refs decision.
I suspect it is down to player behaviour that the same approach hasn’t been adopted for footie. Sad if true.

Could it work in a similar way (and therefore much better) if players and fans behaved differently? Or is it that more frequent natural stoppages in play in rugby allow the interventions to be more timely?

They’ve got to change something for next season. VAR is currently ruining the game as we know it, and further alienating officials from fans. Who’d have thought that was possible?

 

[Rochdaleblade]

Rugby, cricket and American football are all quite dull sports with constant breaks in play. When the ref consults the video they give an explanation of what they are looking for and why they have made a decision. I would have loved to hear atwell explain why he decided to ignore his linesman on that occasion and not on any others. Other sports also have little of the spontaneous joy of scoring a goal. That for me is why I never wanted var in the first place. As it removes a lot of the excitement of scoring a goal if you have to wait 5 minutes while some killjoy tries to find an excuse to disallow it. The argument was that this would be worth it if it improved consistentcy but if anything it is worse. Why was didzys goal ruled out against spurs but the wolves one was allowed to stand. Var is shite. I may stop attending live matches if this farce continues. Christ I would vote for corbyn if he promised to abolish it

 

[Silent Blade]

On the Wolves goal, Jiminez was offside in the first phase by a country mile, yet was allowed to cross for Doherty to score.

Jiminez wasnt offside when Stevens played the ball to him. If it was a Wolves player that did the same as Stevens did then it becomes the "next phase"

 

[Cerberus Blade]

You can almost model it mathematically.
Refs are inconsistent. Always have been, always will be, because many decisions are subjective.
Adding a second ref multiplies this inconsistency
So, if you consider a decision, say a pen that isn’t an obvious ‘clean him out’ pen-
The ref can see it as a pen or not.
The VAR ref may have a different view but then has to decide if his view is different enough to actually overturn the ref’s initial decision. Different VAR refs will take slightly different approaches to this.
Effectively you get Inconsistency x Inconsistency = Inconsistency Squared.
Because of this, VAR will not work until the ref is allowed to review his decision on the pitch side screen.

I also like that because it puts the referee back in charge of his decisions, something that isn't happening currently. It was rejected initially because it was said it would take too much time out of the game. But it can't take more time out of the game than the current arrangement, where 30,000 + fans and 22 football players stand around twiddling their thumbs, wondering what decision the mysteriously absent official, with a view on the game that no one else has, will come to.

However, I still think VAR is unnecessary. At its essence, this is about a game of "sport" and never in the history of the game of football has it been about measuring offside decisions in millimetres, for example. Always, in the history of the game, offside decisions have been somewhat controversial. They've changed the laws regarding offside to try and improve it, but at the end of the day it comes down to a subjective, judgemental call, from the referee. The linesmen are positioned thus in order to have the best view to call the offside, so the conversation between referee and linesman ought to give a pretty accurate view, not in terms of millimetres, but in terms of whether the player has gained an unfair and advantageous positioning. And that's what it should be about - it's about playing within the spirit of the rules, not measuring by how many millimetres a player stayed within the rules. I think we've lost sight of that, and VAR, regrettably, has some other unwanted side-effects. It makes fans feel removed and alienated from what is happening on the pitch and it kills spontaneity.

I drew a comparison with American Football, when I posted my concerns about VAR, before the season started. I said that I think it will be the thin end of the wedge and we will end up with a game which is being stopped frequently for decisions to be analysed - and it will kill the game.

It's happening and the fans, the players, the managers, are all seemingly powerless to stop it. VAR is here to stay. It doesn't matter whether the supporter going through the turnstile like it - the most important customers are the armchair millions watching across the globe - and obviously it's for them, because it provides a bit of drama and allows sufficient time during the examination of incidents, to pop out and make a cup of tea.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

In this article:

What the referee told Jonjo Shelvey ahead of VAR goal at Sheffield United

The Newcastle United midfielder's quick thinking earned Magpies their second goal in Bramall Lane win

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

So, the ref prepared Shelvey that he was going to allow play to carry on, before the incident occurred? Interesting! I'm assuming he made that instruction clear to all the players at the time?

Wasn't referee Stuart Atwell, also involved in the VAR decisions at Spurs a few weeks ago?

If one wasn't fair-minded about this, one could start to believe that Mr Atwell has it in for us!

I saw his post match interview and thought the same.
Shelley actually made it sound like it was said to him personally.
Weird to say the least.