Sheffield United and the Cult of Brayford

[robbiez666]

The evidence suggests that we've put a bid on of around £1.5 million for Brayford. If this is the case, it's ludicrous. We've been shopping at the 99p shop for years and now we're set to splurge a ludicrous amount of money in this league for a right back?

Anyone with half a nugget between their lobes knows that we'd have far more chance of getting up if we bought 3 great League 1 players in instead. We're bidding under the odds for every other flipping player yet asking price for him.

 

[Kenilworth]

Bidding sod all for players who might make the grade is one thing. Bidding on quality and a known quantity is a fish bearing kettle of completely different proportions.
He is well worth £1.5m in today's market. Question is, will we back it up with more GCI in the striking department. IF this is for real then I rather think we shall

 

[borbokis]

clough got hammered in the summer for signing a shit load of cheap players most of which have turned out to be less than sparkling. I would prefer 1 decent player over 3-4 shite ones who are no better than what we already have

 

[alcoblade]

Bidding sod all for players who might make the grade is one thing. Bidding on quality and a known quantity is a fish bearing kettle of completely different proportions.
He is well worth £1.5m in today's market. Question is, will we back it up with more GCI in the striking department. IF this is for real then I rather think we shall

I don't think the OP is questioning Brayford's value in the market, more whether we should be paying it out.

I can't help feeling positive about the uplift his signing would give us, but I totally agree with the point being made.

If a big signing like this was one of a few significant ones within budget, then I'm all for it. If we blow our budget solely on a right back, I think it's madness.

UTN

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Depends on what happens next.
If it's followed by other game changing signings without hindering the youth coming through I'll be happy.

 

[JohnDenver]

It all depends how much of our overall budget this alleged bid represents. If we're absolutely minted then let's go for it.

 

[Reedy1889]

I'm amazed people are doubting whether this is a good deal for us or not. Of bloody course it is!

He'd be quite clearly far and away the best right back in League One as for me he's in the top 3 easily best right backs in the championship. Addingto that he'll add another element to our attacking play, as he causes problems in the final third with his drives forward and overlaps.

Once the signing is announced the vibe &morale in and around the Club will go up another level which is exactly what we need to drive us on to finishing in the playoffs and hopefully promotion (and a possible cup final)

 

[alcoblade]

Depends on what happens next.
If it's followed by other game changing signings without hindering the youth coming through I'll be happy.

If we stopped worring about youth coming through, we'd be making more game changing signings....

Seriously, Phippsy's been on again lately about how we can;t sustain ourselves in the third division, even with 20,000 gates, cup runs and player sales. He sighted the academy as a reason why.

A club of our size and income can't sustain itself in the third division, FFS!

It's bleeding us dry and it's time it was closed / mothballed.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

I'm not questioning Brayford's worth, I'm questioning the mentality of our manager and board. We bid pittance for GMS. If he's on Clough's list, at least try with a bid of more than £75k. Ditto with Doyle. He's easily worth £500k-750k. We need goals. If we were bidding £1.5 million for a striker who would virtually guarantee us 15 goals then fine, but how much more of an impact on our results will Brayford have as opposed to Flynn. 3 points? 6 points? The same goes for spending that money on a powerful box to box midfielder. free up the other two in midfield and then you'll get chances created and more people in the box.

Goals win play-off games. Not right backs.

And surely his wage bill would take us over the FFP limit as well? If he was part of 4 signing which came to say £4 million then great. You've all seen where we've been shopping since the Prince took over. How likely is that?

I'd much rather we did some kind of deal with them. Loan and then an option (say pay his wage bill and a sum extra and have the option to buy, should we go up for £1 million.

 

[JohnDenver]

A club of our size and income can't sustain itself in the third division, FFS!

Does that surprise you? Most championship clubs are vastly over stretched and we've nowhere near their income in this league.

McCabe was embarking on making us self-sustainable before the Prince weighed in. That process of book balancing (plus one D Weir), looked like dropping us in the next division again.

It's an economic madhouse this sport.

 

[alcoblade]

Does that surprise you? Most championship clubs are vastly over stretched and we've nowhere near their income in this league.

McCabe was embarking on making us self-sustainable before the Prince weighed in. That process of book balancing (plus one D Weir), looked like dropping us in the next division again.

It's an economic madhouse this sport.

It does surprise me yes. More than that, it alarms me.

Average gates aproaching 20,000. Maguire sold for £2.5M. £2,000,000 extra income for the cup. No debt repayment. A squad of limited quality that's surely not being paid enormously over the odds.

And what's the upshot? That apparently The Prince had to inject £8M last season.

Our costs are way too high. They don't have to be. If people aren't really alarmed by those numbers, they should be.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

If we stopped worring about youth coming through, we'd be making more game changing signings....

Seriously, Phippsy's been on again lately about how we can;t sustain ourselves in the third division, even with 20,000 gates, cup runs and player sales. He sighted the academy as a reason why.

A club of our size and income can't sustain itself in the third division, FFS!

It's bleeding us dry and it's time it was closed / mothballed.

UTB

Did he say what the costs were of the academy? Or why the academy is to blame?

 

[JohnDenver]

It does surprise me yes. More than that, it alarms me.

Average gates aproaching 20,000. Maguire sold for £2.5M. £2,000,000 extra income for the cup. No debt repayment. A squad of limited quality that's surely not being paid enormously over the odds.

And what's the upshot? That apparently The Prince had to inject £8M last season.

Our costs are way too high. They don't have to be. If people aren't really alarmed by those numbers, they should be.

UTB

Oh I'm alarmed but past being surprised.

I would be interested to see an expert analysis of our accounts this year.

 

[alcoblade]

Did he say what the costs were of the academy? Or why the academy is to blame?

I'm told he listed the cost of running a large ground and the academy. He wasn't specific.

I think the average running costs of an academy of our type is approaching £3M a year.

In the end, after however many years we've had no positive influence from the academy. The only player that we've held for a period is Maguire, who saw us drop to the third division during his time. Other top players have been sold early to cover costs. What' the point?

UTB

 

[wizadry]

I'm told he listed the cost pf runniong a large ground and the academy. He wasn't specific.

I think the average running costs of an academt of our type is approaching £3M a year.

In the end, after however many years we've had no pootive influence from the academy. The only player that we've held for a period is Maguire, who saw us drop to the third division during bis time. Other top players have been sold early to cover costs. What' the point?

UTB

Hmmmm,it sounds like were just keeping a few friends in a job if this is the case alco.

I love to see youngsters come through at our club,but if that's the case then what is the point as you quite rightly say.

 

[wizadry]

I'm told he listed the cost of running a large ground and the academy. He wasn't specific.

I think the average running costs of an academy of our type is approaching £3M a year.

In the end, after however many years we've had no positive influence from the academy. The only player that we've held for a period is Maguire, who saw us drop to the third division during his time. Other top players have been sold early to cover costs. What' the point?

UTB

Also weren't we losing £8 million a year? If so where the fuck is the other £5 million going?

 

[alcoblade]

Hmmmm,it sounds like were just keeping a few friends in a job if this is the case alco.

I love to see youngsters come through at our club,but if that's the case then what is the point as you quite rightly say.

The reality is that even if they come through they'll often either be in positions that are surplus to requirements, or be spotted by higher clubs and sold (at their own request too) before we've had any tangible benefit (The 2 Kyles), simply serving to piss everyone off for the next decade.

We will never have a team even remotely full of local youth.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Also weren't we losing £8 million a year? If so where the fuck is the other £5 million going?

Yep, as JD said, a detailed breakdown of the accounts would be really good to see. On the face of it none of it adds up.

 

[wizadry]

The reality is that even if they come through they'll often either be in positions that are surplus to requirements, or be spotted by higher clubs and sold (at their own request too) before we've had any tangible benefit (The 2 Kyles), simply serving to piss everyone off for the next decade.

We will never have a team even remotely full of local youth.

UTB

Can't add anything further to this mate,sounds pretty much spot on from the evidence over the years.

 

[Pinchy]

Yep, as JD said, a detailed breakdown of the accounts would be really good to see. On the face of it none of it adds up.

Jim Phipps is going to organise a forum solely on football finance. I think we could all (me included) benefit from that. At
least then we could have a more informed debate and strip away some of the myths.

 

[wizadry]

Jim Phipps is going to organise a forum solely on football finance. I think we could all (me included) benefit from that. At
least then we could have a more informed debate and strip away some of the myths.

I don't know whether you're jesting here but that would be a great idea,just as you say to understand the real aspects as to why a club our size in league one is losing a substantial amount of money every year.

 

[Pinchy]

I don't know whether you're jesting here but that would be a great idea,just as you say to understand the real aspects as to why a club our size in league one is losing a substantial amount of money every year.

No jest, mate. He's mentioned it quite a lot. I'm sure Foxy will tell us more in due course. I shall certainly attend if I possibly can.

 

[FlyingFjortoft]

I'm told he listed the cost of running a large ground and the academy. He wasn't specific.

I think the average running costs of an academy of our type is approaching £3M a year.

In the end, after however many years we've had no positive influence from the academy. The only player that we've held for a period is Maguire, who saw us drop to the third division during his time. Other top players have been sold early to cover costs. What' the point?

UTB

Disagree with this so much

Without our academy graduates (Jagielka, Naughton, Lowton, Maguire etc), we would probably have finished a couple of places lower in every one of our last ten seasons. Many of our favourite footballing memories would not have taken place.

The academy helps not just the Sheffield United team but also the England team!

Besides one day (now under the Prince?) we might not have to sell the graduates and hold on to our future Premier League players.

Obviously this figure ignores the money our academy brings in through transfer fees. It also ignores the amount of money the academy saves us - for example if we didn't have Louis Reed this season we would need to sign an extra midfielder - an extra transfer fee and undoubtedly they'd be on higher wages than a 17-year-old.

 

[Canterbury Blade]

All great armies need a hero. Who do we have?

Get him bought!

 

[Kev Gee]

So say we didn't bid for Brayford.

Clough would get hammered.

Say we didn't bid for Brayford and he joined another team. Questions would be asked why we didn't try and get him.

He really can't win sometimes.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Anyway, back to the OP.

If it is true we are splashing the cash on our favourite right back I am staggered too, like the OP. We have Alcock and we have the mighty Flynn already. From what I see the Mighty Flynn could develop to be as good if not better than Brayford who has some defensive deficiencies in my opinion.

There is no doubt Brayford became our talisman and I loved watching him play for us. But he is a full back and we have no strikers FGS. We need two first choice strikers to make up the "strong strikeforce of four" we were promised.

What really bothers me about this is the fact it is another Derby County "old boy". Can't our Chief Scout find anything but Derby "old boys" and one or two from Scottish lesser clubs? This is a global job Simon Clough has got, it is not limited to Scotland and the Peak District. So blinkered, so parochial, so modest in horizons and ambition, despite the cash involved, it is such an insight into the small world our Chief Scout is operating in. As a newsagent he could learn a lot about players from further afield if he read his papers more.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I'm not questioning Brayford's worth, I'm questioning the mentality of our manager and board. We bid pittance for GMS. If he's on Clough's list, at least try with a bid of more than £75k. Ditto with Doyle. He's easily worth £500k-750k. We need goals. If we were bidding £1.5 million for a striker who would virtually guarantee us 15 goals then fine, but how much more of an impact on our results will Brayford have as opposed to Flynn. 3 points? 6 points? The same goes for spending that money on a powerful box to box midfielder. free up the other two in midfield and then you'll get chances created and more people in the box.

Goals win play-off games. Not right backs.

And surely his wage bill would take us over the FFP limit as well? If he was part of 4 signing which came to say £4 million then great. You've all seen where we've been shopping since the Prince took over. How likely is that?

I'd much rather we did some kind of deal with them. Loan and then an option (say pay his wage bill and a sum extra and have the option to buy, should we go up for £1 million.

Robbiez666 , cannot argue with that. but ,

The Brayford scenario brings the club and fans together with a positive intent.

Mr Clough is very conservative and not a risk taker in management , but the lift and expectations it is giving us , is like fever pitch when a certain club signs a Galactico .

You build from the back , the signing after Brayford will look after the front.

 

[blader]

The evidence suggests that we've put a bid on of around £1.5 million for Brayford. .

Other than speculation and rumour, has this actually been CONFIRMED by either club? I genuinely haven't seen anything, wondering if I'd missed it.

 

[Bart the Blade]

I keep seeing mentioned on Twitter that we are "stepping up interest" in Eoin Doyle. Could Clough be spending that much cash this window? He's already mentioned he wants 4, or do you think if a deal for O'Grady falls through, Doyle's his back up?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Jim Phipps is going to organise a forum solely on football finance. I think we could all (me included) benefit from that. At
least then we could have a more informed debate and strip away some of the myths.

Its simple financial economics like paying your mortgage , bills , etc . I don't think there is any myths , its just that fans expectations are sometimes unreal . You have only got to listen to praise and grumble.

The only thing which is unclear is how much is Mr Prince financial involvement and input.

UTB