Sheffield clubs: The Transfer Policies

[CaptainHotdog]

Morning fellow Blades of the world.

Firstly I apologies for polluting our beautiful forum with a mention of the dark side.. however I feel the need to scope your thoughts on the contrasting transfer policies of the two Sheffield teams.

Wilder has mentioned it several times, that we've clearly adopted this approach to buy the best from the lower leagues. Players whose stock is rising - captains, players of the season, the right age etc. Stearman being the exception.

I look at the transfer activity at Hillsborough. Boyd, to be fair, I still think is a decent player who will likely play a lot of games for them this season. However he fits a mould of players who they have signed who have already peaked and are on their way down, maintaining big contracts:

Fletcher
Jones
Wallace
Hooper & Rhodes - I'd have both, however I'm including these players in this bracket as they've hit the PL and not cut the mustard.
Hutton - linked with them this week, 32 and one of the highest earners at Villa, seemingly willing to let him go.

My point is this. Two clubs, one city. Yet the transfer policies differ greatly. I see them 'spunkin moneh' on big transfers and high wages and yet I feel no jealousy at all. I prefer our approach - in an era where I am growing vastly disillusioned with modern football and daft amounts being spent, what we are doing gives me hope that success can be achieved in this modest way.

Finally I have a sneaky feeling it could implode at Wednesday this season. I saw some comments from Carvalhal in the paper and reading between the lines I don't think they're able to continue with the big transfer fees due to FFP. My opinion is they will fail to make the play-offs this time round. Could well be wrong, hope I'm not!

Thoughts ??

UTB

 

[I should coco]

However he fits a mould of players who they have signed who have already peaked and are on their way down, maintaining big contracts:

And there is the nub.

Boyd is decent lower Prem player but probably just past his best, hence why Burnley let him go. Hooper and Rhodes never properly established themselves in the Prem and arguably their only real quality Premiership player is Fletcher. Fortunately by all accounts, he is a bit of a knob.

I see them 'spunkin moneh' on big transfers and high wages and yet I feel no jealousy at all. I prefer our approach - in an era where I am growing vastly disillusioned with modern football and daft amounts being spent, what we are doing gives me hope that success can be achieved in this modest way.

I couldn't agree more. Some of our lower league signings might not work out, but some certainly will and the one thing you know is they will give their all having stepped up a level. That is all we ask for.

I think they will go one of two ways. If they start well I can see them around the top 2 all season, but if the start is a bit patchy the pressure will build on Carlos and the Dolphin Killer might get an itchy trigger finger. At the that point there will be some falling out among the 'superstars' about who is allowed to park their Bentleys in the best spots.

 

[elgoog44]

Agree completely we are a team and club transformed by the Wilder revolution, buying players on the way up will only see a rise in there stock, buying yesterdays player looking for a big wage and pension fund is not the way to go, we have proved it over and Over in the past.

If we carry on the trajectory we are on, we will be one of the few clubs that can find success with out the silly wages and 10 million pounds invested in one player, we have a squad and each part is not greater than the whole its a very beautiful thing.

 

[elgoog44]

And there is the nub.

Boyd is decent lower Prem player but probably just past his best, hence why Burnley let him go. Hooper and Rhodes never properly established themselves in the Prem and arguably their only real quality Premiership player is Fletcher. Fortunately by all accounts, he is a bit of a knob.




I couldn't agree more. Some of our lower league signings might not work out, but some certainly will and the one thing you know is they will give their all having stepped up a level. That is all we ask for.

I think they will go one of two ways. If they start well I can see them around the top 2 all season, but if the start is a bit patchy the pressure will build on Carlos and the Dolphin Killer might get an itchy trigger finger. At the that point there will be some falling out among the 'superstars' about who is allowed to park their Bentleys in the best spots.

Spot on Coco

 

[mancunianblade]

I am very very interested to see how this all ends in say 2 years. I don't see anything other than a huge bursting of the bubble over there. I no longer live in Sheffield and don't have any regular contact with supporters of the tramps but from what I gather they don't seem to be concerned about what could happen. with such issues fresh in the memory how they cannot be worried is beyond me.

I mean on the other hand if Nathan Thomas turns out to be a dud what have we lost?

 

[Revolution]

Putting aside for a moment whether the Pigs are spending their money wisely, I am astounded at the groupthink that seems to have developed on this board to the effect that it's a good thing that we aren't spending as much money as other clubs.

Personally, given that I have confidence in this manager to make good signings, I'd prefer him to be in charge of a larger budget than he appears to have.

And when I came on this board 8 years ago I was told repeatedly that Wednesday were about to go out of business. Nothing changes. I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The big difference is planning for the short term versus planning for the long term.

The SW owner obviously wants a return on his investment asap.
The problems is that the rewards waiting in the PL are so vast making it very tempting to over gamble.
The owner (who admits knows nothing about football) naively thought, invest in quality players and it gaurantees promotion. This season is really make or break for them.

Their owner can't keep on throwing money into a bottomless pit.
At some stage he's going to tighten the reins and downsize. They'll be left with lots of old mercenary players who they can't shift off the salary budget, might need to pay off several contracts.

There's definitely a dark cloud hovering over the horizon heading towards S6.
For them it's getting to a stage where it's promotion or bust.
Although Bournemouth were in a similar situation, overspending in league 1 and the Championship and their gamble paid off, so who knows?

 

[Revolution]

The big difference is planning for the short term versus planning for the long term.

The SW owner obviously wants a return on his investment asap.
The problems is that the rewards waiting in the PL are so vast making it very tempting to over gamble.
The owner (who admits knows nothing about football) naively thought, invest in quality players and it gaurantees promotion. This season is really make or break for them.

I thought last season was make or break for them?

 

[elgoog44]

The big difference is planning for the short term versus planning for the long term.

The SW owner obviously wants a return on his investment asap.
The problems is that the rewards waiting in the PL are so vast making it very tempting to over gamble.
The owner (who admits knows nothing about football) naively thought, invest in quality players and it gaurantees promotion. This season is really make or break for them.

Their owner can't keep on throwing money into a bottomless pit.
At some stage he's going to tighten the reins and they'll be left with lots of old mercenary players who they can't shift off the salary budget, might need to pay off several contracts.

There's definitely a dark cloud hovering over the horizon heading towards S6.
For them it's getting to a stage where it's promotion or bust.
Although Bournemouth were in a similar situation, overspending in league 1 and the Championship and their gamble paid off, so who knows?

The other dark cloud heading there way could very well be the Hillsborough Tragedy, once the criminal proceedings get under way, Sheffield Wednesday could be held accountable for some of it, still a long way off, but I think they will get caught in the ripple effect once things are under way and it could cost them dearly.

 

[Bladezz]

I listened to AK interview this morning about Lundstram and how they identified him as a target due to being released from a big club (Everton) dropping down to League two and working his way back up.

That's the sort of players we want in our team. Sheffield Wednesday are trying to buy the finished articles but the issue is the finished Articles are £15milliom (Assombalonga) and although they have big money they cannot compete for those players.

So they are buying the finished Articles that are on there way down. Hutton / Mulgrew (rumoured) / Boyd. They want big wages.

That's the SWFC issue, they aren't signing the up and coming players and they aren't signing the cream of the division. They supposedly want a centre half but Roberts went to Birmingham for mega money. SWFC cannot compete.

 

[Slim Man]

Wendy: Chucking money at it till it clicks (lets be honest as much as some might not to admit it they're not far away)

Us: Giving Wilder relative spare change and hoping for him to pull a few rabbits out of hats


You can look at it two ways...But they've made some tragic signings, Hutton would be the latest.
I'd rather Wilder had a bigger budget, definitely. Think he's earned it.

 

[Slim Man]

I listened to AK interview this morning about Lundstram and how they identified him as a target due to being released from a big club (Everton) dropping down to League two and working his way back up.

That's the sort of players we want in our team. Sheffield Wednesday are trying to buy the finished articles but the issue is the finished Articles are £15milliom (Assombalonga) and although they have big money they cannot compete for those players.

So they are buying the finished Articles that are on there way down. Hutton / Mulgrew (rumoured) / Boyd. They want big wages.

That's the SWFC issue, they aren't signing the up and coming players and they aren't signing the cream of the division. They supposedly want a centre half but Roberts went to Birmingham for mega money. SWFC cannot compete.

It was only £3.5mil wasn't it? They bid that for Sean Morrison at Cardiff allegedly
I think they're a bit hamstrung by FFP, they've already paid £10mil for the Bottlejob

 

[I should coco]

The other dark cloud heading there way could very well be the Hillsborough Tragedy, once the criminal proceedings get under way, Sheffield Wednesday could be held accountable for some of it,

The club is not the same legal entity as in 1989, although their old secretary, Mackrell, may cop it. Having said that the ongoing publicity about their underhand collusion with Sheffield Council won't be great publicity for them.

Confident prediction a few years down the line. Once the compo starts getting paid out and you can be sure thousands of Scousers were 'affected' by the tragedy, including many not actually born at the time. As the blame is mainly on SYP and to a lesser extent, SCC, it will be the good Council tax payers of Sheffield footing the bill.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The other dark cloud heading there way could very well be the Hillsborough Tragedy, once the criminal proceedings get under way, Sheffield Wednesday could be held accountable for some of it, still a long way off, but I think they will get caught in the ripple effect once things are under way and it could cost them dearly.

This question has been brought up several times on Owlstalk.

Several (seemingly informed posters) have explained that legally the current SWFC can't be held accountable as the former SW football club no longer exist. I've no idea how historical liabilty works myself.

 

[elgoog44]

This question has been brought up several times on Owlstalk.

Several (seemingly informed posters) have explained that legally the current SWFC can't be held accountable as the former SW football club no longer exist. I've no sense idea how historical liabilty works myself.

Fair play fella, still reading through all the Hillsborough Independent Panel, so not got to too many bits about the club yet, still reading the police and other statements from the day - http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/

 

[Pinchy]

The other dark cloud heading there way could very well be the Hillsborough Tragedy, once the criminal proceedings get under way, Sheffield Wednesday could be held accountable for some of it, still a long way off, but I think they will get caught in the ripple effect once things are under way and it could cost them dearly.

They can't I'm sad to say. The present company is a different legal entity to the one culpable in the disaster. That's why the then Secretary, Herring or whatever his name wasn't, is being prosecuted.

 

[Stretch]

Let them waste the Tuna Man's cash. I also think they are going to hit a bit of a wall this season. There is no way they can continue chucking 30 - 50 k a week at players under FFP, and based on their epic performances last season those strikers simply aren't worth it anymore. All the pressure is on them as far as I am concerned and I don't think the manager or players have the collective marbles to push on.

 

[Danny_Boy]

In honesty I'm not overly bothered what Wednesday do. In fairness to them on paper they have an excellent championship squad and should really be challenging for the top two. We on the other hand have a budget miles away from there's and although it's disappointing that yet again McCabes promises of investment have turned out to be a crock of shit I'm actually quite comfortable with the sensible, low risk approach we are taking. We are signing young hungry players for reasonable fees and I'm confident Wilder is building something!

We've tried spending biggish money on "proven" players and we ended up in league one for six years. The first time we decided to take a different approach under Wilder we stormed the league.

The big spending might work for Wednesday, Rhodes had a poor last year but if he gets his confidence back there isn't a better striker outside the PL, they also probably have the best GK outside the PL.

But I like it this way round, let them slag our signings off & boast about spending millions cause this season and especially the Derby games all of the pressure is on them!

Really looking forward to this season, we finally have a squad of talented 100%ers and it's going to be fantastic watching them at this level and hopefully shocking a few!

 

[shorehamview]

It's like the difference between buying a nice but modest house and buying a massive castle made of ice, with a moat full of alligators and a roof made from Shredded Wheat. One may look really impressive, but the other one is the sensible way.

 

[Maidenhead]

It's like the difference between buying a nice but modest house and buying a massive castle made of ice, with a moat full of alligators and a roof made from Shredded Wheat. One may look really impressive, but the other one is the sensible way.

I love that analogy

 

[elgoog44]

They can't I'm sad to say. The present company is a different legal entity to the one culpable in the disaster. That's why the then Secretary, Herring or whatever his name wasn't, is being prosecuted.

Ah, fair enough, makes sense, Thanks Pinchy

 

[Nasik Blade]

Quick question- I've seen a lot floating around about the Pigs being near the FFP, how does anyone know? Genuine question, is there a link or is there a way of finding out? People seem really confident but I'm interested to know is it just one of those things people now have in their heads but there is no evidence for? Anyone who can share something official I'd be interested to have a look.

 

[Pinchy]

It's like the difference between buying a nice but modest house and buying a massive castle made of ice, with a moat full of alligators and a roof made from Shredded Wheat. One may look really impressive, but the other one is the sensible way.

Which brings us neatly back to RugRon....

 

[BushBlade]

I listened to AK interview this morning about Lundstram and how they identified him as a target due to being released from a big club (Everton) dropping down to League two and working his way back up.

That's the sort of players we want in our team. Sheffield Wednesday are trying to buy the finished articles but the issue is the finished Articles are £15milliom (Assombalonga) and although they have big money they cannot compete for those players.

So they are buying the finished Articles that are on there way down. Hutton / Mulgrew (rumoured) / Boyd. They want big wages.

That's the SWFC issue, they aren't signing the up and coming players and they aren't signing the cream of the division. They supposedly want a centre half but Roberts went to Birmingham for mega money. SWFC cannot compete.

That ^^^^. Spending big money is fine if you can attract players who are still hungry to succeed. But not all clubs can. They have to compete with their rivals and, particularly in the championship, there's always one or two clubs with a bit more money, a higher profile and a manager who can attract the best players.
The pork seemed to have signed a lot of players who eased off a little after they'd had big moves and made decent money. They don't seem hungry enough.

IMO, it's not the policy of spending that's flawed, it's the pigs' execution of it that may cause them problems.

 

[Rodley]

They can't I'm sad to say. The present company is a different legal entity to the one culpable in the disaster. That's why the then Secretary, Herring or whatever his name wasn't, is being prosecuted.

They folded and started up again.

Hmmmmm...

 

[Pinchy]

Ah, fair enough, makes sense, Thanks Pinchy

Small comfort for the Pigs though. Different company; Same Rust-Bucket.

 

[Fanny magnet]

The gap between us monetary wise is nowhere near as big comparatively as the season we had Robson in charge and we all know what happened then

 

[TJB.]

I think instead of just casting an eye over the dark side, which is known to cause nausea and vomiting, we've got to look at football as a whole in England.

I've mentioned on a different thread in the 'Other football' section; the current levels of second-tier spending are ridiculous and completely unsustainable. With so many chasing the honey pot, one or two clubs are going to fall flat on their arses and do a Pompey (or perhaps a Bolton if they don't sort their shit out).

I think many fans become blinded by big-money signings without stopping to think of what the future implications might be. Personally, I'd rather spend and build gradually over time than splash massive sums around and potentially end up in trouble if it doesn't come off.

It'd be lovely to spend more and get better quality in, but as we've seen from them lot, it guarantees nothing. I'm actually of the opinion that if they got a new manager in they'd do even better than they have with that squad, but long may the 'Carlos & Tunaman 4eva' romance continue.

A sustainable future for our club should always be the aim from now on, especially in the current climate.

 

[Boxer Blade]

As I have mentioned before, this season we are going into most games as underdogs, newly promoted, clubs with huge budgets, clubs who have come down from the premier, clubs who have been around promotion from the championship recently, however a lot of the games,certainly against Wendy they will be similar to cup games against say a premier club, they will be expected to win but with the way we approach the games I think these clubs will underestimate our ability and we all know we wont win them all, like cup games we will win our fair share, like Lincoln last season and finally our support, this season will be fuckin immense and will carry us through games when we are struggling, our spirit (management / players/ fans) will catch teams out, the season after? Not sure but who cares at the moment, bring it on

 

[dublin 10 blade]

The "pigs" undoubtedly have 1 or 2 good players , I'm a football fan after all so have to say it .
That's all I'm going to say bout them
But this is what we are all about Blades , we have spent silly money in the past ,
but we are still a muck and nettles , hard as fuck , no nonsense working man's club ,
I would like to spend more money ( who wouldn't ) on players , but I trust our manager with his
approach to our recruitment , he may not get it right all the time , but after his signings last year ,
his reintegration of players who were on there way out , I know who I'd want spending our money .
The pigs have always had this snobbery about them , thinking they're better than us ,
the last few years league wise they where .
It's a level playing field now , we have a manager , captain , and MD , who have our club running through there veins , just like us .
I'm thinking back to the Sir Dave era at the moment , cheap as chips Deane and Agana , scrap heap players
who no one wanted , or no one had heard of , ( I'm not saying the new signings are those by the way ) .
Over the last few seasons people on this forum have been saying , sign hungry , up and coming with something to prove players , our boss is doing this and some are saying , who , not good enough , spend bigger on championship players .
I think our manager at the moment is building our club to mean something to us all again ,
that shirt means something , this Club and ground mean something to those 20 odd thousand fuckers out there .
We will never be signing players for 50 million , but whoever Chris buys , whoever pulls on that
Red , white and black shirt , is one of us , ( Don givens , and the cunt Curren never forgiven ) ,
The pigs can buy who they want , coco the clown , can talk his drivel , but I want
Somebody from Sheffield , telling it like it is , because we ain't nobody's fucking fools , and can see what's happening on that ( Desso ) pitch .
I'd take a steady as she goes season this year , not to get beaten by the "pigs " , shock a few result wise .
I'm happy with the signings so far .
The "pigs " fuck em .