Seth Bennett & Maguire

[Revolution]

Self sustainable in the current league set up? pie in the sky. How many clubs are self sustainable? 5? 3?

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Self sustainable in the current league set up? pie in the sky. How many clubs are self sustainable? 5? 3?

Self-sustainable is tough. Not living way beyond your means shouldn't be. The former is unlikely - we need to get to the latter if we're to become a more stable club, not one whose entire future prospects for the susequent years rely on the kick of a ball at a playoff final.

 

[sheffielder]

Problem McCabe has is that he brought in birch and blackwell to pay stupid wages for mediocre players. Although on the whole I defend him more than attack, this one thing just grinds my gears

 

[metalblade]

I find it hard to believe anything makes you laugh

You do sad man

 

[alcoblade]

Self sustainable in the current league set up? pie in the sky. How many clubs are self sustainable? 5? 3?

How many third division clubs have tens of millions of debt and a wagebill above £10M.

Clue - less than 2.

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Its a balancing act. One we are dreadful at. Yes we are in league one which brings its issues but wouldn't we be better offloading players like Monty for free rather than our kids. Also, I have mentioned this before but we must be the easiest first date in football. After the first beer its off to theirs for coffee and not only do we drop our draws but we offer them brown wings on a first date.

 

[metalblade]

What are you talking about? Are you suggesting we don't honour their contracts? That worked well for Rangers, didn't it?

Don' yout tink the club would love to terminate the big contracts we've still got?

A little secret for you. - you can't pay 'em with washers. Once again, enjoy your trip to the money tree.

UTB

Once again due to your personal vendetta against anything I post you have missed the point. Rather than suggesting we (the club) don't honour contracts I was suggesting that the players should be a little more willing to see out there contracts should we actually reject an offer from another club.

Let's not let this get in the way of another pathetic rant and a chance to mention the money tree that only exists in your crazy world, maybe you should change to name to "rabid dog blade"

 

[Balham]

Its a balancing act. One we are dreadful at. Yes we are in league one which brings its issues but wouldn't we be better offloading players like Monty for free rather than our kids. Also, I have mentioned this before but we must be the easiest first date in football. After the first beer its off to theirs for coffee and not only do we drop our draws but we offer them brown wings on a first date.

I'm sure that given the choice between selling Lowton (£4k per week saved, £750k** up front fee so £960k benefit over the year) and Montgomery (£0 fee, £18k per week saved so £940k benefit), Danny Wilson would have chosen to lose Montgomery. The issue is that player transfers are a demand industry; we can't make anyone sign Monty no matter how much we'd like to.

**I know that the Lowton fee was probably higher. I'm just making a point.

 

[riselikeasalmon]

Alco, is there any point at which you'd be unhappy with our sell sell sell policy? If the chairman (worth tens of millions of quid last time I checked, if not more) sold everyone on a wage and we started the Junior Blades under 10s against Burton would you still be defending it with reference to your bleeding money tree?

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, we have a money tree - his name is Kevin McCabe. The money is there. He just won't use it.

McCabe has put £50m in and it is turned into a negative by some because he has put the club in debt. He could put another £10m in and it wouldn't guarantee we'd get promoted if the last 5 years spending is repeated.

As chairman he is certainly open to critisism for the way the money has been spent, but not that he has been tight.

Do we really want more money chucked in and debt to increase in the hope we'll go up and it will all be paid off, or should we look at getting the club to get on an even keel? Some won't be happy unless he chucks money in and writes it all off - not going to happen.

 

[stannyblade]

I'm sure that given the choice between selling Lowton (£4k per week saved, £750k** up front fee so £960k benefit over the year) and Montgomery (£0 fee, £18k per week saved so £940k benefit), Danny Wilson would have chosen to lose Montgomery. The issue is that player transfers are a demand industry; we can't make anyone sign Monty no matter how much we'd like to.

**I know that the Lowton fee was probably higher. I'm just making a point.

I dont think its that no one will sign Monty more of no one will pay him anywhere near what we pay him. Therefore we are stuck with him until his contract runs out. Unless someone takes him on loan and we pay so much of his wage

 

[alcoblade]

Once again due to your personal vendetta against anything I post you have missed the point. Rather than suggesting we (the club) don't honour contracts I was suggesting that the players should be a little more willing to see out there contracts should we actually reject an offer from another club.

Let's not let this get in the way of another pathetic rant and a chance to mention the money tree that only exists in your crazy world, maybe you should change to name to "rabid dog blade"

But you weren't suggesting what you say, were you? You refered to us honouring the contracts of players whilst making staff members redundant with some daft comment about ""welcome to the crazy world of SUFC and its' fans", as though honouring players contacts is some whim we've solely undertaken.

You're right, I'm picking up on your posts. But if you continue to spout utter bollocks from your armchair then I will continue to point it out.

UTB

 

[super_pig]

groan.. here we go again
i'm untying my shoelaces.. i'm ready

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Self sustainable in the current league set up? pie in the sky. How many clubs are self sustainable? 5? 3?

Are you sure?! There are clubs out there who do it (only a few) and admittedly they stagnate in their respective divisions but it can be achieved. As I said, success is only possible through speculation and that is the reality of the current situation in football. Most clubs do not live within their means but they are also all at risk.....look at whats happening at Rangers.

The bit thats pie in the sky is the notion that a club can carry on living beyond its means and expect to still be around in 10 years or more. Eventually it will all catch up.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I dont think its that no one will sign Monty more of no one will pay him anywhere near what we pay him. Therefore we are stuck with him until his contract runs out. Unless someone takes him on loan and we pay so much of his wage

Or, another club agrees to take him permanently and we agree to make a contribution to the wages - reducing the total amount we'd have to pay for him were he to stay for his full contract with us. It's quite possible that this might happen. If you're a club that wants Monty though, and you're aware that a) he'll have to have a substantial wage and b) there's not much competition for him, are you going to sign him now or at the latest possible opportunity? I think that's partially one of the reasons we haven't tied Willo or KMcD to any deal yet - we may well be able to afford it, and while every week that passes is one where another team could take them, it's also another week where we're saving £10k plus...

 

[Bladesway]

McCabe has put £50m in and it is turned into a negative by some because he has put the club in debt. He could put another £10m in and it wouldn't guarantee we'd get promoted if the last 5 years spending is repeated.

As chairman he is certainly open to critisism for the way the money has been spent, but not that he has been tight.

Do we really want more money chucked in and debt to increase in the hope we'll go up and it will all be paid off, or should we look at getting the club to get on an even keel? Some won't be happy unless he chucks money in and writes it all off - not going to happen.

Kevin McCabe is unlikely to walk away from Sheffield United a poorer man in the way we will be a poorer team for his utter mismanagement of the club. Bearing in mind anything he has put in is by way of loans so he hasn't given it to us. Theres interest also so if he decided to call it all in he could fold the club easy peasy. Wouldn't be to his benefit of course but by letting out/selling off various assets to finance his loans to us he could generate enough to make it all back and then some I recon. Also, all this money he has supposedly put in, how much has actually financed the first team rather than Kevs stupid pipe dreams. Chengdu, the World Cup, teams around the world who will feed talent to us on tap, a hotel etc etc etc.

All the MaCabe apologists say how much he has put in. I really wonder if he has actually put a penny of his own cash in. I hazard a guess Kevs money is ring fenced. Because in all these cases you never see a bankrupt chairman, just a bankrupt club. Makes you think doesn't it.

I say he has been tight in the way he never released the cash when we actually needed it. He financed his off field antics and its great to have the best ground in the third division, but I would rather we had a less fantastic facility, no Legends of the Lane or museum, no hotel bolted onto the end, no business centre (is it ever full by the way) and a team either in the Championship bare minimum.

 

[metalblade]

But you weren't suggesting what you say, were you? You refered to us honouring the contracts of players whilst making staff members redundant with some daft comment about ""welcome to the crazy world of SUFC and its' fans", as though honouring players contacts is some whim we've solely undertaken.

You're right, I'm picking up on your posts. But if you continue to spout utter bollocks from your armchair then I will continue to point it out.

UTB

Go on then I'll continue to let you make yourself look the fool you undoubtedly are...............

But you weren't suggesting what you say, were you?

the above quote is proof enough you are seeing things and turning them to suit your agenda, forgive me buddy but that is utter bollocks as you put it.

 

[alcoblade]

Go on then I'll continue to let you make yourself look the fool you undoubtedly are...............

the above quote is proof enough you are seeing things and turning them to suit your agenda, forgive me buddy but that is utter bollocks as you put it.

More jibber. Your quote;

Always makes me laugh, a players contract means nothing when someone makes a transfer bid yet when we need to move them on we have to honour that contract even if it means the club has to make half the staff redundant to pay it. Another day in the crazy world of Sheffield United and it's fans

So what is the point you are making here? What is it about us honouring contracts that contributes to ther crazy world that is Sheffield United?

The floor's yours.....................


UTB

 

[riselikeasalmon]

[I say he has been tight in the way he never released the cash when we actually needed it. He financed his off field antics and its great to have the best ground in the third division, but I would rather we had a less fantastic facility, no Legends of the Lane or museum, no hotel bolted onto the end, no business centre (is it ever full by the way) and a team either in the Championship bare minimum.[/quote]

Blame Blackwell, Speed, Adams and the heartless performances from some of the best paid players in the Championship 2010/11 for that

 

[grafikhaus]

Where does the money come from to fill the gap between income and expenditure?

The current actions are probably necessary. The root cause of our demise isn’t the recent sale of players, it's the profligate spending that made it necessary. We gambled on the wrong horses.

UTB

I'm currently reading 'Blades Tales' which pretty much covers 'my' period of watching the Blades. Be in no doubt, United have always been a selling club. That's bad enough, but we only tend to get jack shit for players who are surely worth more (i.e. £3m for Lowton which became £700,000 in reality).

We can take the sales, it's the lying that gets us.

Alco, the 'root cause of our demise' is the selling of players at the first whiff of a cheque book. The day they sold Deane & Fjortoft was a prime example, but the worst example (in my opinion) was where the board couldn't wait to break up the nucleus of a damn good team who lost the 2009 play-off final. If they had kept their nerve (as Cardiff do) we wouldn't be where we are now.

It's cause and effect. Sell any half-decent player and replace them with an inferior product and you get what you deserve. The Third Division.

If the roof of the Copthorne started leaking and McCabe sanctioned a cheap botch job, he'd know the inevitable result. Why can't he see this applies to football?

 

[alcoblade]

I'm currently reading 'Blades Tales' which pretty much covers 'my' period of watching the Blades. Be in no doubt, United have always been a selling club. That's bad enough, but we only tend to get jack shit for players who are surely worth more (i.e. £3m for Lowton which became £700,000 in reality).

We can take the sales, it's the lying that gets us.

Alco, the 'root cause of our demise' is the selling of players at the first whiff of a cheque book. The day they sold Deane & Fjortoft was a prime example, but the worst example (in my opinion) was where the board couldn't wait to break up the nucleus of a damn good team who lost the 2009 play-off final. If they had kept their nerve (as Cardiff do) we wouldn't be where we are now.

It's cause and effect. Sell any half-decent player and replace them with an inferior product and you get what you deserve. The Third Division.

If the roof of the Copthorne started leaking and McCabe sanctioned a cheap botch job, he'd know the inevitable result. Why can't he see this applies to football?

OK, more controversy from me. I think one of the biggest myths about United is that we've undersold our players. Hindsight puts 5 match Kyle Walker as our real mistake. The list is very short.

"Holding your nerve" is very easy with someone else's wallet. Usually strongly spouted by those who want to tell you why they aren't prepared to stump up £300 per year. I maintain that, with a whopping debt around our neck, we've had plenty of nerve. It's the misplaced targeting of that nerve that is the root cause. Player sales are the symptom, not the cause in this case. Whether it's historically been the case is another story that I'm less decided about.

The best ITK stuff I can unearth re Lowton (from a source close to family, for what that's worth) is that the price was £1.7M down, rising to £3M. If that's correct (if), it is in itself not a bad deal. It's the re-investment of the proceeds and the reason the sale was necessary that I'm concerned about.

 

[metalblade]

More jibber. Your quote;



So what is the point you are making here? What is it about us honouring contracts that contributes to ther crazy world that is Sheffield United?

The floor's yours.....................


UTB

You still here ?

"Holding your nerve" is very easy with someone else's wallet. Usually strongly spouted by those who want to tell you why they aren't prepared to stump up £300 per year. I maintain that, with a whopping debt around our neck, we've had plenty of nerve. It's the misplaced targeting of that nerve that is the root cause. Player sales are the symptom, not the cause in this case. Whether it's histroically been the case is another story that I'm less decided about.

I see you are playing the "I am a ST holder so my opinion counts more" card again, yet you want me to explain every word posted because you cannot be bothered to read the whole thread and digest it ........ me who is not renewing his ST so my view is worthless according to your good self.................. unbelievable !!!

P.S and it is selling good players and replacing them with crap or 30+yr old journeymen on a last big payday that got us in this mess, Grafikhaus is spot on we have always been a selling club.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

OK, more controversy from me. I think one of the biggest myths about United is that we've undersold our players.

It’s not so much that we sell for too low a price, it’s the fact that whenever we build a good team we sabotage them by selling key players.

Deane/Agana promotion team:- We sold Agana and initially struggled in the "First Division"
Bassett’s Premiership team:- We sold Deane and went down
Spackman’s team:- We sold Tiler, Hutchison, Deane and Fjortoft and blew promotion
Warnock’s relegation team:- We sold Jagielka, sacked Warnock and appointed Robson
Blackwell’s play-off team:- We sold Beattie, Naughton and Walker and missed out on promotion

Repeatedly United have got themselves in a strong position, with a team capable of pushing on and becoming an established Premiership team.

On all those occasions, the plug has been pulled with the result being that we’ve taken two steps back and had to rebuild from scratch again.

 

[metalblade]

It’s not so much that we sell for too low a price, it’s the fact that whenever we build a good team we sabotage them by selling key players.

Deane/Agana promotion team:- We sold Agana and initially struggled in the "First Division"
Bassett’s Premiership team:- We sold Deane and went down
Spackman’s team:- We sold Tiler, Hutchison, Deane and Fjortoft and blew promotion
Warnock’s relegation team:- We sold Jagielka, sacked Warnock and appointed Robson
Blackwell’s play-off team:- We sold Beattie, Naughton and Walker and missed out on promotion

Repeatedly United have got themselves in a strong position, with a team capable of pushing on and becoming an established Premiership team.

On all those occasions, the plug has been pulled with the result being that we’ve taken two steps back and had to rebuild from scratch again.

You can go back further than that........
1960's Jones / Birchenall = relegation
1970's Currie = relegation

 

[Sothall_Blade]

You can go back further than that........
1960's Jones / Birchenall = relegation
1970's Currie = relegation

Speak for yourself ;-)

I did think of Edwards, Cockerill etc... but they were good players in crap teams..(when sold)

 

[Grecian2000]

You can go back further than that........
1960's Jones / Birchenall = relegation
1970's Currie = relegation

To be strictly pedantic we sold Currie after a relegation (summer '76). The big sale leading up to that particular demise was Salmons.

How many times do we have to do it before it is seen as a bad thing to do?
It's a bloody simple algorythm. Sell your better players, replace them with inferior types, performance/league position suffers. Works every time.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

It’s not so much that we sell for too low a price, it’s the fact that whenever we build a good team we sabotage them by selling key players.

Deane/Agana promotion team:- We sold Agana and initially struggled in the "First Division"
Bassett’s Premiership team:- We sold Deane and went down
Spackman’s team:- We sold Tiler, Hutchison, Deane and Fjortoft and blew promotion
Warnock’s relegation team:- We sold Jagielka, sacked Warnock and appointed Robson
Blackwell’s play-off team:- We sold Beattie, Naughton and Walker and missed out on promotion

Repeatedly United have got themselves in a strong position, with a team capable of pushing on and becoming an established Premiership team.

On all those occasions, the plug has been pulled with the result being that we’ve taken two steps back and had to rebuild from scratch again.

Agana was sold a year and a half after promotion. He'd featured little in the first season up (Deane/Bryson usually, IIRC, I was only 9!) due to injuries. The £750k we got from Warnock and Notts County was a decent deal at the time - I don't think he pulled up trees for them. We got away from Agana at just the right time as injuries struck. We also went on that season to do the double over the Pigs and finish top half, highest place for years.

Can't comment on the sale of Deane - can't recall what was happening that caused it. Did Deane want to leave when he knew it was Leeds? I do know that his replacement (Flo) wasn't anywhere near good enough.

I'll agree with the Spackman team. 'Black Thursday' depressed me big time and the FA Cup run can't hide the fact that we sold promotion that day.

The sale of Jagielka was a clause in his contract. He was worth a hell of a lot more than £4m IMO. Everton got a bargain if we're honest. Nothing United could do though, to get him to stay in the first place, we had to put the clause in.

Play Off team of Blackwell - IMO, the sale of Naughton was right. A lot of money was spent by Spurs on him there. However, Everton wanted him alone and that's where he should have gone - he'd have got his chance there. Walker's sale was criminal. As for Beattie, after an initial flurry at Stoke, he's struggled since. Few goals, more injuries. We got out of that contract at just the right time.

 

[Grecian2000]

Can't comment on the sale of Deane - can't recall what was happening that caused it. Did Deane want to leave when he knew it was Leeds? I do know that his replacement (Flo) wasn't anywhere near good enough.

The first sale of Deane was a similar situation to Jags.

We got him to sign an extension to his contract the previous summer only on the proviso he could go the summer after. He duly signed and we stayed in the Premier League.
We had a full year to get him replaced and came up with the dreadful Flo. Replacing Deane with Flo was like swapping your BMW for a Skoda and we were relegated the following season (sell your better players, replace with inferior etc. etc.).

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Deane/Agana promotion team:- We sold Agana and initially struggled in the "First Division"

Minor point, but we kept Agana in the first season. By the time he was sold, hadn't he sort of drifted out of the team anyway, with people like Littlejohn having come in?

 

[JohnDenver]

Minor point, but we kept Agana in the first season. By the time he was sold, hadn't he sort of drifted out of the team anyway, with people like Littlejohn having come in?

Injury was to blame for that I think.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

The first sale of Deane was a similar situation to Jags.

We got him to sign an extension to his contract the previous summer only on the proviso he could go the summer after. He duly signed and we stayed in the Premier League.
We had a full year to get him replaced and came up with the dreadful Flo. Replacing Deane with Flo was like swapping your BMW for a Skoda and we were relegated the following season (sell your better players, replace with inferior etc. etc.).

Dave Bassett on the sale of Brian Deane:-

Now back in the third tier of English football, the Blades spent four seasons in the top flight under Bassett. But when chairman Reg Brealey agreed to sell striker Brian Deane to Leeds United for £2.9m in the summer of 1993, it put the club in reverse gear. Deane, who had carved his own unique place in Premier League history when scoring the competition’s first goal (against Manchester United on the opening day of the 1992-93 season), was also sold behind Bassett’s back.
“Instability in the boardroom was a major problem around that time,” said Bassett. “It is a real pity that (the current chairman) Kevin McCabe was not in charge back in those days! After three seasons in the top flight, I felt we were beginning to get a grip on what was required. Unfortunately, we shot ourselves in the foot by selling Brian. I was on holiday and I simply couldn’t believe it. When I got back, I told the chairman that it was a mistake that might result in relegation.

The Brealey family was owed money, and I accept that they were entitled to it paying back, but I just wish they had consulted me more. We would have banked far more than £2.9m if we had stayed in the Premier League – and with his goals I dare say we would have secured survival before the final game against Chelsea. There were other players we could have sold to bring a million in. And if we had spent just one more season in the top flight, I am convinced the money would have come in to get us established”

“Selling Brian Deane was footballing suicide,” he concluded. “We drew 18 games in that final season but if we had still had Deano I know we would have turned some of those draws into victories.”