Seriously, 18 months on, what is the point of VAR?

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Stegosaurus said:
Hi Stegosaurus here,

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. VAR is a great addition to the game that greatly enhances the sport both for fans and players alike by removing the innate bias of referees towards bigger clubs by bringing in method for contentious decisions to be reviewed by peers. It will also limit some of the abuse that the official recieves. Because the decison is reviewed by peers, there is now no need for the fans to abuse the official by suggesting that he might be need a new pair of spectacles or saying he is fond of masturbation.
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Even if that was true, which it isn't because there are still massive errors and perceived bias towards big clubs, it's far outweighed by the fact its ruining the spectacle of the game itself.

Even the Devil's Advocate will struggle to make an argument that VAR has enhanced the game for fans (especially attending ones). It just hasn't.
 
Working Class Hero said:
The set number of appeals idea would be even worse. Any last minute goal would obviously be challenged no matter what, why wouldn't you challenge it as the conceding captain (as long as you have a challenge left)? You've just killed last minute wild goal celebrations forever.
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They’ve been killed anyway as VAR checks every goal.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
They’ve been killed anyway as VAR checks every goal.
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That's true but it would be even more of a performance, waiting for the captain to appeal and then the referee going over to the monitor. The only way it can work for fans is if it's instantaneous, i.e. the decision is made there and then by the referee. Like they did before, back when we all loved football.
 
Ahhh the ball hitting the stanchion at the back of the net and coming out.

We are also a member of that shockingly, unbelievably bad decision club as well.

Even if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes and I didn't know for sure whether it had happened to us or not.
I'd still know it had happened to us, if you know what I mean
 
Working Class Hero said:
That's true but it would be even more of a performance, waiting for the captain to appeal and then the referee going over to the monitor. The only way it can work for fans is if it's instantaneous, i.e. the decision is made there and then by the referee. Like they did before, back when we all loved football.
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Yeah, I suppose you could look to limit the nature of the appeal in someway or threaten sanctions if teams start taking the piss.
 
JJBlade said:
Ahhh the ball hitting the stanchion at the back of the net and coming out.

We are also a member of that shockingly, unbelievably bad decision club as well.

Even if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes and I didn't know for sure whether it had happened to us or not.
I'd still know it had happened to us, if you know what I mean
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Errr, no mate, no really. Still, it's probably me. I'm still trying to work out if I'm going to get a pension or not! ;)
 
Stegosaurus said:
Hi Stegosaurus here,

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. VAR is a great addition to the game that greatly enhances the sport both for fans and players alike by removing the innate bias of referees towards bigger clubs by bringing in method for contentious decisions to be reviewed by peers. It will also limit some of the abuse that the official recieves. Because the decison is reviewed by peers, there is now no need for the fans to abuse the official by suggesting that he might be need a new pair of spectacles or saying he is fond of masturbation.
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We get a vast range of posts and posters on here, some good, some bad, but never before have I seen a post that so fully encapsulates the phrase “absolute bollocks”.....
 
Who cares, it won’t be relevant to us next season. We can go back to complaining how the ref missed a blatant penalty and Billy’s challenge was never a red.
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
Many years ago, I watched MOTD when Spurs (I think) scored a goal against Coventry (I think) where the ball bounced out after hitting the frame inside the goal and the ref didn't give it.
Hundreds of dodgy decisions later and I was happy to see VAR introduced to 'right such wrongs'
So has VAR improved the game? Well, after a woeful start, I would now describe VAR as.... woeful.
Just this weekend, we've seen a stonewall penalty not given to us, I've just watched Mane 'tackle' Fred, following through, studs up into the chin, in the same way Lundstram 'tackled' at Crystal Palace and got sent off. Add these to the rest of the ludicrous decisions gone against (and for us) and countless other teams and VAR remains, after a year and a half, a stain on the game.

"If we remove it, won't we just be re-introducing poor decisions made by match officials?"
Yes, of course we will, but we will also be reintroducing talking points, crazy goal celebrations, games allowed to continue instead of being broken up often with teams in the ascendency either losing momentum, or even worse having to deal with the psychological disadvantage of having a goal chalked off after the event while giving a boost to the team under the cosh.
Also, it's not as if we'd be giving up one successful system for one that was failing. VAR IS FAILING.
The price we have to pay for the very few clear and obvious errors made by refs and linesmen (that's what they are, not referee's f******g assistants) is far too great.
F**k the millimetre offside decisions, f**k the 'Is he naturally/unnaturally purposely/unpurposely protecting his face/trying to juggle the f******g thing handballs.
Let the ref decide and get the f**k on with the f******g game. That's what he's there for!

VAR is not for the good of the game, it's for the good of the referees and the product that is the Premier League. Well my precious little (where's ya father, where's ya father. where's ya father) referee, you get respect by being good at your job. If you can't do it to a decent enough standard, go and do something else. I know it's a difficult job, but listen, we all know that, and it might surprise you to know that no-one expects you to get it right every time. It always was and always will be part of the game. Yes we'll go bananas at you when you f**k up, at least until we realise you were right all along after we see the replay later.
I would rather see 10 minor offsides on MOTD missed by the lino than see goals chalked off by some f*****g computer than can 'see' some fraction of a centimetre that the human eye can't.
The worst thing of all though? The ridiculous inconsistency that makes it no better in my opinion than the inconsistency of the refereeing we've always endured.
Fine, keep the goal line technology. At least that's fool proof......
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Couldn't agree more Beattie. Accept we are all flawed as humans and live with the inevitable mistakes.

Game's becoming chuffin soulless and after the incident at Chelsea as well a lottery. Especially when those involved appear unaccountable.

The rules are being re-written game by game.😨
 
Working Class Hero said:
We don't have to accept change if it's blatantly a bad thing and makes things worse. If we did, we'd all be living in asbestos houses.
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I think they were called prefabs !
It is difficult to know whether anything new is bad until it is fully and properly tried out
 
Nobody's piss ever got boiled by a big toe or a pointing arm being offside....or even when a goal was given when an attacker was obviously offside on tv review yet that's what the majority of VAR interruptions are used to settle. I think we can live without those being "corrected"

The only things I'm bothered about overturning would be a Maradona/Henry style hand ball goal. If a player is dishonest enough to do that then there should be a sanction of a 12 month ban from the game.

The game doesn't need VAR.
 
I am going sound like a right conspiracy theorist here, but after wondering what or who's purpose it's serves, i've come to the conclusion and my answer is this:

It only serves FA/Fifa and their agenda to maintain the football hierarchy and acts as a route of corruption (where/when necessary) and is a form of controlling the game.

It takes away that 'Margin of error' which was once afforded to none top 6 teams, and skews the power back to the bigger teams - whether this is purposeful corruption, or a form of unconscious bias - VAr provides another level of inequality which big teams can benefit from.

It does not serve footballers, the other 14, the fans, it doesn't even really help referees when it comes down to it.


An example:

Arsenal are about to drop out of the premier league in one of the biggest shocks in EPL history, at the expense of WBA/Fulham/Burnley staying up.

A last minute shot hits an oppositions shoulder/upper arm but a pen is not given initially - what would you bet on happening for Arsenal being given the VAR decision?

And what would you bet on happening to WBA/Fulham/Burnley?

VAR is a fall back plan to maintain the EPL status quo and to stop those nasty outliers which could rock the boat - it keeps the rich clubs in the competition which ultimately serves the purpose of keeping the richest league in the world, the richest
 
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The way it’s been implemented is almost like they want it to be binned off, they are that bad at using the technology.

Football is as corrupt as it can get, there’s no other reason for some of the blatant decisions we see the officials get wrong.

Does anyone actually know the reason they didn’t give handball on Saturday? Or why Mane, Shaw and a couple of others haven’t seen red when their challenges were almost identical to the one of Lundstram? No, me neither.
 
BettingBlade said:
One point you make about talking points I just want to pick up on.....the talking points have never gone away, in fact there’s probably more to talk about and even more controversial. Which in itself appears to be counter-productive in terms of what VAR was brought in for.

It is claimed that VAR would make the game more consistent, if anything I think it’s more inconsistent than it’s ever been. Possibly because each VAR decision is magnified infinitely. I think it’s total bollocks that this was brought in to stop these inconsistencies and yet it’s become worse.

What’s boiling my piss even more is the fact ex-referees are now being drafted in to scramble around for any old excuse to back the referees up no matter how many times they contradict themselves.

The whole thing is total bollocks and people are being paid an awful lot of money to make a complete balls up of implementing something that could very easily change the game for the better. It’s obvious the referees don’t know how to apply the technology, even now. In a desperate attempt to hide the complete balls up they’ve made of it, they’re now having to hastily alter existing laws of the game in order to compensate for their previous shoddy work and of course they’re now making a balls up of changing the laws, hence no one knows what the fuck is handball or offside or when a referee is deemed to have interfered with play by being in the fucking way.
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Peter Walton is the worst ever at looking for excuses to stick up for his buddies, even worse than Dermot Gallagher on that ref fucking watch show. There’s enough controversy or cheating to have shows like this every week, have a think about that for a moment!

The refs are there to be seen not heard but they get talked about more than the players really, that on its own is fucking ridiculous.
 

bongleblade said:
I am going sound like a right conspiracy theorist here, but after wondering what or who's purpose it's serves, i've come to the conclusion and my answer is this:

It only serves FA/Fifa and their agenda to maintain the football hierarchy and acts as a route of corruption (where/when necessary) and is a form of controlling the game.

It takes away that 'Margin of error' which was once afforded to none top 6 teams, and skews the power back to the bigger teams - whether this is purposeful corruption, or a form of unconscious bias - VAr provides another level of inequality which big teams can benefit from.

It does not serve footballers, the other 14, the fans, it doesn't even really help referees when it comes down to it.


An example:

Arsenal are about to drop out of the premier league in one of the biggest shocks in EPL history, at the expense of WBA/Fulham/Burnley staying up.

A last minute shot hits an oppositions shoulder/upper arm but a pen is not given initially - what would you bet on happening for Arsenal being given the VAR decision?

And what would you bet on happening to WBA/Fulham/Burnley?

VAR is a fall back plan to maintain the EPL status quo and to stop those nasty outliers which could rock the boat - it keeps the rich clubs in the competition which ultimately serves the purpose of keeping the richest league in the world, the richest
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I was writing my post as you wrote yours, bang on, there’s no other reason for the shoddy refereeing performances we see from those on the field of play and in a studio watching countless twatting replays.
 
They should have a central committee of five refs that monitor the games. In order for an on-field decision to be overturned, all five would have to vote against it.

That is how you solve the clear and obvious errors.
 
wizadry said:
The way it’s been implemented is almost like they want it to be binned off, they are that bad at using the technology.

Football is as corrupt as it can get, there’s no other reason for some of the blatant decisions we see the officials get wrong.

Does anyone actually know the reason they didn’t give handball on Saturday? Or why Mane, Shaw and a couple of others haven’t seen red when their challenges were almost identical to the one of Lundstram? No, me neither.
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It hit the defender in the "Green Zone"apparently. Whatever the fuck that is😨.

So we need to change that old adage, "It cost me an arm and a leg " to "It cost me a green zone and a leg "seemingly, by modern football parlance.

I console myself with having seen the best of the game in my earlier years. These days it's comparative bobbar.
 
Possibly, 18 months on, what's the point of SUFC being in the PL?
 
Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, NFL all use technology to make the game 'better' - in principle VAR should be able to do the same for football, but the implementation has been awful.

Needs something like "Umpire's Call" works in cricket - the Ref makes a decision, and clear and obvious (i.e outside the margin of error) is needed for it to be overturned. I'd mike up the ref as well (and VAR) as in rugby so they are clear what they are checking for (so "I think it's a goal, but can you check there was no handball" or "I don't think it was a penalty").

Mind you, I'd only allow the Captain and player being spoken to by the ref to talk to the ref as well
 
snb69 said:
Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, NFL all use technology to make the game 'better' - in principle VAR should be able to do the same for football, but the implementation has been awful.

Needs something like "Umpire's Call" works in cricket - the Ref makes a decision, and clear and obvious (i.e outside the margin of error) is needed for it to be overturned. I'd mike up the ref as well (and VAR) as in rugby so they are clear what they are checking for (so "I think it's a goal, but can you check there was no handball" or "I don't think it was a penalty").

Mind you, I'd only allow the Captain and player being spoken to by the ref to talk to the ref as well
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All three of those sports use it for black and white instances though. No one argues with goal line technology, which is the best comparison. Wherever there is subjectivity, or a long drawn out decision, it's nothing but bad for the game.

Offside in theory, could be a black and white issue. But the technology is so far from being accurate enough, and the process quick enough, that it's not worth keeping.
 
Working Class Hero said:
All three of those sports use it for black and white instances though. No one argues with goal line technology, which is the best comparison. Wherever there is subjectivity, or a long drawn out decision, it's nothing but bad for the game.

Offside in theory, could be a black and white issue. But the technology is so far from being accurate enough, and the process quick enough, that it's not worth keeping.
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Time limit is one answer - if VAR cannot decide in black & white in 60 seconds, then referee's call still stands. I think the big difference is that it is clear that the ref has made a decision in those other sports.

Goal Line Tech is fine until the cameras aren't switched on, obviously
 
snb69 said:
Time limit is one answer - if VAR cannot decide in black & white in 60 seconds, then referee's call still stands. I think the big difference is that it is clear that the ref has made a decision in those other sports.

Goal Line Tech is fine until the cameras aren't switched on, obviously
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60 seconds is still way too long in my book. Any delay whatsoever on a goal is too long.

Red cards and penalties, I could accept a small delay to get the right decision. Goals and celebrations should not be taken away from the game though, like they currently are.
 
The way it is currently used there is no point.
1. Keep goal line technology but double check some fucker has actually turned it on and it's working.
2. Sack off the offside decision. Leave it to the lino, you'll win some you'll lose some.
3. Immediately get rid of the rule about not flagging, when it is blatantly offside, until that phase of play is over. It wont be long before an injury occurs as everyone is going full tilt for no reason.
4. Check foul play if it looks like a serious injury has been caused but the ref can only look at the monitor for 45 secs max and it has to be at full speed, none of this slowing it down from every angle and zooming in. If he cant decide in that time go with his original decision.
5. Explain what the fuck the green zone is. Was he actually watching the game or accidentally had his mic turned on while watching a film on the Iraq war.
6. Checking goals should be a 20 second look. If nothing is glaringly obvious you go with on field decision.

Finally, with VAR, what is the point of the linesman? The don't flag for offside until the play is over. If one team scores it gets checked, if they don't who cares play on - so no point in them.
They never seem to flag for fouls. If there is one the ref gives it or if anything significant happens after VAR checks it - so no point.
And I'm sure deciding throw ins can be done without their input 95% of the time.
 

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