Seriously, 18 months on, what is the point of VAR?

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GreasyChipBeattie

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Many years ago, I watched MOTD when Spurs (I think) scored a goal against Coventry (I think) where the ball bounced out after hitting the frame inside the goal and the ref didn't give it.
Hundreds of dodgy decisions later and I was happy to see VAR introduced to 'right such wrongs'
So has VAR improved the game? Well, after a woeful start, I would now describe VAR as.... woeful.
Just this weekend, we've seen a stonewall penalty not given to us, I've just watched Mane 'tackle' Fred, following through, studs up into the chin, in the same way Lundstram 'tackled' at Crystal Palace and got sent off. Add these to the rest of the ludicrous decisions gone against (and for us) and countless other teams and VAR remains, after a year and a half, a stain on the game.

"If we remove it, won't we just be re-introducing poor decisions made by match officials?"
Yes, of course we will, but we will also be reintroducing talking points, crazy goal celebrations, games allowed to continue instead of being broken up often with teams in the ascendency either losing momentum, or even worse having to deal with the psychological disadvantage of having a goal chalked off after the event while giving a boost to the team under the cosh.
Also, it's not as if we'd be giving up one successful system for one that was failing. VAR IS FAILING.
The price we have to pay for the very few clear and obvious errors made by refs and linesmen (that's what they are, not referee's f******g assistants) is far too great.
F**k the millimetre offside decisions, f**k the 'Is he naturally/unnaturally purposely/unpurposely protecting his face/trying to juggle the f******g thing handballs.
Let the ref decide and get the f**k on with the f******g game. That's what he's there for!

VAR is not for the good of the game, it's for the good of the referees and the product that is the Premier League. Well my precious little (where's ya father, where's ya father. where's ya father) referee, you get respect by being good at your job. If you can't do it to a decent enough standard, go and do something else. I know it's a difficult job, but listen, we all know that, and it might surprise you to know that no-one expects you to get it right every time. It always was and always will be part of the game. Yes we'll go bananas at you when you f**k up, at least until we realise you were right all along after we see the replay later.
I would rather see 10 minor offsides on MOTD missed by the lino than see goals chalked off by some f*****g computer than can 'see' some fraction of a centimetre that the human eye can't.
The worst thing of all though? The ridiculous inconsistency that makes it no better in my opinion than the inconsistency of the refereeing we've always endured.
Fine, keep the goal line technology. At least that's fool proof......
 

The point was to stop wrong decisions.
In the main this has happened, but what has also happened is the folks who make rules like offside and penalties have cocked up the rules which makes VAR take decisions to the nth degree which wasn't the point of it. It was to clear up clear and obvious errors.
I don't miss referees and linos getting decisions wrong, but VAR hasn't helped the game due to the points above.
In the long run though, it should be a good thing if used properly and more sparingly.

PS here is a song about it:
 
Many years ago, I watched MOTD when Spurs (I think) scored a goal against Coventry (I think) where the ball bounced out after hitting the frame inside the goal and the ref didn't give it.
Hundreds of dodgy decisions later and I was happy to see VAR introduced to 'right such wrongs'
So has VAR improved the game? Well, after a woeful start, I would now describe VAR as.... woeful.
Just this weekend, we've seen a stonewall penalty not given to us, I've just watched Mane 'tackle' Fred, following through, studs up into the chin, in the same way Lundstram 'tackled' at Crystal Palace and got sent off. Add these to the rest of the ludicrous decisions gone against (and for us) and countless other teams and VAR remains, after a year and a half, a stain on the game.

"If we remove it, won't we just be re-introducing poor decisions made by match officials?"
Yes, of course we will, but we will also be reintroducing talking points, crazy goal celebrations, games allowed to continue instead of being broken up often with teams in the ascendency either losing momentum, or even worse having to deal with the psychological disadvantage of having a goal chalked off after the event while giving a boost to the team under the cosh.
Also, it's not as if we'd be giving up one successful system for one that was failing. VAR IS FAILING.
The price we have to pay for the very few clear and obvious errors made by refs and linesmen (that's what they are, not referee's f******g assistants) is far too great.
F**k the millimetre offside decisions, f**k the 'Is he naturally/unnaturally purposely/unpurposely protecting his face/trying to juggle the f******g thing handballs.
Let the ref decide and get the f**k on with the f******g game. That's what he's there for!

VAR is not for the good of the game, it's for the good of the referees and the product that is the Premier League. Well my precious little (where's ya father, where's ya father. where's ya father) referee, you get respect by being good at your job. If you can't do it to a decent enough standard, go and do something else. I know it's a difficult job, but listen, we all know that, and it might surprise you to know that no-one expects you to get it right every time. It always was and always will be part of the game. Yes we'll go bananas at you when you f**k up, at least until we realise you were right all along after we see the replay later.
I would rather see 10 minor offsides on MOTD missed by the lino than see goals chalked off by some f*****g computer than can 'see' some fraction of a centimetre that the human eye can't.
The worst thing of all though? The ridiculous inconsistency that makes it no better in my opinion than the inconsistency of the refereeing we've always endured.
Fine, keep the goal line technology. At least that's fool proof......
It's also made the linesman's role basically redundant. Its only redeeming feature is overturning dodgy red cards, apart from that it's crap and I can't wait to see the back of it next season.
 
Said it from before it was introduced. It’s a shit concept that can only bring benefit to tv fans who know nothing about the passions of a live game. It’s a substantial nail in the coffin of the game that many of us have loved for decades.

It has no redeeming features and much as it should be binned, it won’t be. I’m a fan of NFL.. if football continues to try to emulate that sport then it’s fucked.
 
It's gone as well as I expected. Granted I expected a disaster. People say it worked in the world cup. Well I thought it was terrible then too. I hate it. Goal line technology is great as it's clear cut and instant. Var is neither.
The people who said it was great at the World Cup were pundits and people who only switch football on the tv every other year.
 
One point you make about talking points I just want to pick up on.....the talking points have never gone away, in fact there’s probably more to talk about and even more controversial. Which in itself appears to be counter-productive in terms of what VAR was brought in for.

It is claimed that VAR would make the game more consistent, if anything I think it’s more inconsistent than it’s ever been. Possibly because each VAR decision is magnified infinitely. I think it’s total bollocks that this was brought in to stop these inconsistencies and yet it’s become worse.

What’s boiling my piss even more is the fact ex-referees are now being drafted in to scramble around for any old excuse to back the referees up no matter how many times they contradict themselves.

The whole thing is total bollocks and people are being paid an awful lot of money to make a complete balls up of implementing something that could very easily change the game for the better. It’s obvious the referees don’t know how to apply the technology, even now. In a desperate attempt to hide the complete balls up they’ve made of it, they’re now having to hastily alter existing laws of the game in order to compensate for their previous shoddy work and of course they’re now making a balls up of changing the laws, hence no one knows what the fuck is handball or offside or when a referee is deemed to have interfered with play by being in the fucking way.
 
It hasn’t helped the game at all in my opinion. I’m not happier with outcomes.
It’s more frustrating than the ref/linesman making a mistake.
It’s slowed the game down.
It’s spoilt the excitement of the game.

I’d happily see it removed tomorrow & never come back. Footy managed just fine without for 130+ years & would survive just fine without it.
Goal-line tech (as Berkshire Blade said) is great, when it’s switched on.... VAR can go & fuck itself.
 
Many years ago, I watched MOTD when Spurs (I think) scored a goal against Coventry (I think) where the ball bounced out after hitting the frame inside the goal and the ref didn't give it.
Hundreds of dodgy decisions later and I was happy to see VAR introduced to 'right such wrongs'
So has VAR improved the game? Well, after a woeful start, I would now describe VAR as.... woeful.
Just this weekend, we've seen a stonewall penalty not given to us, I've just watched Mane 'tackle' Fred, following through, studs up into the chin, in the same way Lundstram 'tackled' at Crystal Palace and got sent off. Add these to the rest of the ludicrous decisions gone against (and for us) and countless other teams and VAR remains, after a year and a half, a stain on the game.

"If we remove it, won't we just be re-introducing poor decisions made by match officials?"
Yes, of course we will, but we will also be reintroducing talking points, crazy goal celebrations, games allowed to continue instead of being broken up often with teams in the ascendency either losing momentum, or even worse having to deal with the psychological disadvantage of having a goal chalked off after the event while giving a boost to the team under the cosh.
Also, it's not as if we'd be giving up one successful system for one that was failing. VAR IS FAILING.
The price we have to pay for the very few clear and obvious errors made by refs and linesmen (that's what they are, not referee's f******g assistants) is far too great.
F**k the millimetre offside decisions, f**k the 'Is he naturally/unnaturally purposely/unpurposely protecting his face/trying to juggle the f******g thing handballs.
Let the ref decide and get the f**k on with the f******g game. That's what he's there for!

VAR is not for the good of the game, it's for the good of the referees and the product that is the Premier League. Well my precious little (where's ya father, where's ya father. where's ya father) referee, you get respect by being good at your job. If you can't do it to a decent enough standard, go and do something else. I know it's a difficult job, but listen, we all know that, and it might surprise you to know that no-one expects you to get it right every time. It always was and always will be part of the game. Yes we'll go bananas at you when you f**k up, at least until we realise you were right all along after we see the replay later.
I would rather see 10 minor offsides on MOTD missed by the lino than see goals chalked off by some f*****g computer than can 'see' some fraction of a centimetre that the human eye can't.
The worst thing of all though? The ridiculous inconsistency that makes it no better in my opinion than the inconsistency of the refereeing we've always endured.
Fine, keep the goal line technology. At least that's fool proof......
Lundstram got sent off at Brighton,not Crystal Palace.
 
What they should do, is set up another VAR centre. Then the both review the decision independently, and if they differ, they bounce it back to the ref.

And if the ref cannot decide, they open up a Twitter poll and let the fans sort it.
Bin the whole fucking thing and get back to the football we were brought up on - VAR is utter shite.
 
VAR has done exactly what I thought it would, and that's to ruin the experience for fans in the ground. That doesn't matter unfortunately though any more, we're far outnumbered by TV fans these days, and our input of money is far outweighed by corporate entities and club owners.

It's been absolutely hideous for the game, all in the pursuit of increasing the correct decisions from 94% to 97%, or whatever it is. It's a joke really. The sooner it's gone, the better.
 

At this point VAR needs to strip right the way back:
  • Goal line technology (when it’s ‘switched on’)
  • Pitch side monitor referrals only - 2 appeals per captain.
  • Offside goes back to assistant referee judgement - if off/on side is appealed then relevant assistant referee reviews via monitor.
  • Reinstate sense in the offside law. Level is onside by any sensible look (if not an exact science). Element of doubt in favour of attacking side, with a common sense viewpoint of whether or not any advantage has been gained (which is where VAR has lost the plot, determining centimetre differences between an armpit and an ankle, drowning out the fact that absolutely no advantage has been gained) I’d compare torso to torso, or even by daylight.
  • Reinstate sense in the handball law. It doesn’t need such a level of complexity, just the principles that operated perfectly well for decades. Was the arm up? Did it move towards the ball? Could the defending player do anything about it I.e. ball to hand? Anyone that knows the game recognises an obvious handball most of the time.
 
It's a good concept, it still is a good concept. They are applying it in a confusing, inconsistent and ultimately bad way. It needs reforming.

The heavy interference by a group of unknowns sat in a studio somewhere should be limited as far as possible. They should not dictate to the referee in any way. They should only provide a replay to the referee when the referee would like to have a quick look at a tight decision to make sure he has made the correct decision and only the referee should be able to overturn this decision.

The rules surrounding offside are currently absolutely ridiculous, lack basic common sense and a big part of the problem with VAR. We should never have a scenario where a player is level with the defending line but is judged offside because a laser line shows that his fingertips might be offside.

The offside rule should be changed to mean that upon watching a replay requested by the referee or linesman (referee's ultimate decision), for an offside decision to be given it should be clear to the naked eye that the attacker is in front of the last defender when the ball is played. If it is that close that the computer needs to generate a laser line to judge whether one hand may be offside, then no, stop being fucking daft, in these instances it should be judged as level and ONside.

VAR should only ever be used as a compliment to traditional referring.
 
At this point VAR needs to strip right the way back:
  • Goal line technology (when it’s ‘switched on’)
  • Pitch side monitor referrals only - 2 appeals per captain.
  • Offside goes back to assistant referee judgement - if off/on side is appealed then relevant assistant referee reviews via monitor.
  • Reinstate sense in the offside law. Level is onside by any sensible look (if not an exact science). Element of doubt in favour of attacking side, with a common sense viewpoint of whether or not any advantage has been gained (which is where VAR has lost the plot, determining centimetre differences between an armpit and an ankle, drowning out the fact that absolutely no advantage has been gained) I’d compare torso to torso, or even by daylight.
  • Reinstate sense in the handball law. It doesn’t need such a level of complexity, just the principles that operated perfectly well for decades. Was the arm up? Did it move towards the ball? Could the defending player do anything about it I.e. ball to hand? Anyone that knows the game recognises an obvious handball most of the time.
Good post, I could get on board with the captain appeals idea. I probably should have read this post before making my post as you make the exact same point as me about the offside rule.
 
Goal line technology does not work with 100% reliability and should be abolished.
 
If there is no real change to the reliability of decisions, then what’s the point? It only has a negative impact on the game.
 
Good post, I could get on board with the captain appeals idea. I probably should have read this post before making my post as you make the exact same point as me about the offside rule.
The set number of appeals idea would be even worse. Any last minute goal would obviously be challenged no matter what, why wouldn't you challenge it as the conceding captain (as long as you have a challenge left)? You've just killed last minute wild goal celebrations forever.
 
Many years ago, I watched MOTD when Spurs (I think) scored a goal against Coventry (I think) where the ball bounced out after hitting the frame inside the goal and the ref didn't give it.
Hundreds of dodgy decisions later and I was happy to see VAR introduced to 'right such wrongs'
So has VAR improved the game? Well, after a woeful start, I would now describe VAR as.... woeful.
Just this weekend, we've seen a stonewall penalty not given to us, I've just watched Mane 'tackle' Fred, following through, studs up into the chin, in the same way Lundstram 'tackled' at Crystal Palace and got sent off. Add these to the rest of the ludicrous decisions gone against (and for us) and countless other teams and VAR remains, after a year and a half, a stain on the game.

"If we remove it, won't we just be re-introducing poor decisions made by match officials?"
Yes, of course we will, but we will also be reintroducing talking points, crazy goal celebrations, games allowed to continue instead of being broken up often with teams in the ascendency either losing momentum, or even worse having to deal with the psychological disadvantage of having a goal chalked off after the event while giving a boost to the team under the cosh.
Also, it's not as if we'd be giving up one successful system for one that was failing. VAR IS FAILING.
The price we have to pay for the very few clear and obvious errors made by refs and linesmen (that's what they are, not referee's f******g assistants) is far too great.
F**k the millimetre offside decisions, f**k the 'Is he naturally/unnaturally purposely/unpurposely protecting his face/trying to juggle the f******g thing handballs.
Let the ref decide and get the f**k on with the f******g game. That's what he's there for!

VAR is not for the good of the game, it's for the good of the referees and the product that is the Premier League. Well my precious little (where's ya father, where's ya father. where's ya father) referee, you get respect by being good at your job. If you can't do it to a decent enough standard, go and do something else. I know it's a difficult job, but listen, we all know that, and it might surprise you to know that no-one expects you to get it right every time. It always was and always will be part of the game. Yes we'll go bananas at you when you f**k up, at least until we realise you were right all along after we see the replay later.
I would rather see 10 minor offsides on MOTD missed by the lino than see goals chalked off by some f*****g computer than can 'see' some fraction of a centimetre that the human eye can't.
The worst thing of all though? The ridiculous inconsistency that makes it no better in my opinion than the inconsistency of the refereeing we've always endured.
Fine, keep the goal line technology. At least that's fool proof......
I agree with all of that and we can also add that it just sucks the spontaneity and enjoyment from the game for players and supporters.
I rarely 'go mental' when we score any more and am already programmed to wait to see if it is going to be allowed.

Before VAR I think most of us automatically know if there was a chance of it being chalked off, or if the flag has gone up. If there was a gut feeling it 'looked offside' then we could temper our celebrations a couple of seconds until we seen that the lino's flag hadn't gone up and the ref was still pointing towards the centre circle.
Now we have to wait up to a minute (or beyond) for clarification - the moment has gone.
We all go to matches (in normal times) for the emotion don't we? That has been taken away.

Like you say, I would rather take the rough with the smooth and have a few dodgy decisions go against us, just to get back the highs of celebrating a goal as it happens.
 
Bin the whole fucking thing and get back to the football we were brought up on - VAR is utter shite.
VAR is fine if used properly.
It is the users who are worried about getting it just wrong that are messing it up.
Let those in the office just tell the ref to review and not spend ages trying different angles.
For all the cock ups there are many correct decisions
 
VAR is fine if used properly.
It is the users who are worried about getting it just wrong that are messing it up.
Let those in the office just tell the ref to review and not spend ages trying different angles.
For all the cock ups there are many correct decisions
That's fine, but do you not think that where goals are concerned, the game is better without referee reviews?
 
It’s taken all the spontaneity out of the game and given little back as there are still big inconsistencies from game to game due to which official is the ref. After looking forward to a match, my heart inevitably sinks a bit if I find out it’s been refereed by Moss, Dean, Oliver or Kavanagh. There’s no point in sucking the life out of the game at the expense of trying to achieve the impossible. Part of the match day experience for me sat 3 rows away from the pitch in The South Stand towards the kop end was to bellow a huge OFFSIDE at the assistant ref when the opposition attacked. Might just be my imagination but it seemed to result in a flag more than might have been expected. Seems pointless now. I liked watching the FA Cup matches where it wasn’t available. I suppose one small consolation if it stays is you won’t find a ref giving a penalty for intent.
 
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Hi Stegosaurus here,

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. VAR is a great addition to the game that greatly enhances the sport both for fans and players alike by removing the innate bias of referees towards bigger clubs by bringing in method for contentious decisions to be reviewed by peers. It will also limit some of the abuse that the official recieves. Because the decison is reviewed by peers, there is now no need for the fans to abuse the official by suggesting that he might be need a new pair of spectacles or saying he is fond of masturbation.
 
Is it perfect? No, but I’d rather they used technology to try to officiate the match as fairly as possible.

It should’ve been introduced 20+ years ago like most other sports did, the system might be getting close to perfect by now if they had.
 
That's fine, but do you not think that where goals are concerned, the game is better without referee reviews?
Yes but I was happy before the mobile phone arrived !
Change is inevitable so we have to accept change but not without questioning the detail : cf Beetamax
 

Hi Stegosaurus here,

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. VAR is a great addition to the game that greatly enhances the sport both for fans and players alike by removing the innate bias of referees towards bigger clubs by bringing in method for contentious decisions to be reviewed by peers. It will also limit some of the abuse that the official recieves. Because the decison is reviewed by peers, there is now no need for the fans to abuse the official by suggesting that he might be need a new pair of spectacles or saying he is fond of masturbation.
Disagree with all your points.
1. VAR does not enhance the game for fans. It kills it. VAR is shit.
2. Decisions still seem to benefit the 'bigger' club. To the extent that they literally look corrupt
3. And singing of the the referee's masturbatory preferences is one of the pleasures of going to the game
 

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