Scouting infrastructure problems

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BushBlade said:
That ethos is partly why, despite the “better value” on offer, Wilder has largely resisted the lure of players from overseas.

“We’re based on an English mentality but that doesn’t mean we’ll close the doors on other players,” he insists. “We are looking to expand our recruitment, but the most critical thing is that players fit into our culture.”

http://www.theleaguepaper.com/featu...nable-to-pay-our-suppliers-says-chris-wilder/
Click to expand...


After a couple of pages on this excellent thread there was a stage when posters were saying something like " well this is a topic we are 100% agreed on -over to the Board". Well I've had my twopenneth as have a few others and now we have the opportunity to discuss the excellent article provided by Bush Blade above and which happens to sum up my personal view as expressed higher on this thread. What I have learned is that we have spent £2.8m on transfer fees and Stearman came for £1m and Baldock £650k, more than I ever imagined.

The article states Wilder's approach and reasons in detail. Would all those posters who criticised the club please comment with the benefit of Wilder's comments( and mine too!!;):p!!) and stated approach. That is the reality of the stage we are at.

Please comment Blades - healthy debate when we are under so much pressure after the absolute tragedy of 2 consecutive defeats! Wilder very wisely says in the article that unity/ spirit/ belief is probably more of an issue for the fans than the players and club officials when the pressure is on.
 



Go on then - I think he's saying exactly the right things for a Year 1 club, but would be very surprised and a little disappointed if he's going to limit himself to the ethos as stated going forward as I think of him as a progressive coach on the up who will be open and receptive to anything and everything that can give him an edge.

As said Year 1 club, we are where we are and have to work within the framework we have and the expectations of the majority of fans are reasonably low, basically survival, and anything else is a bonus. However, this will not last forever and stasis/disillusionment will kick in if we are still on the same page a couple of years down the track so, in my view, plans for increasing focus on foreign players should begin now to give us time to learn the basics before actually starting to trade so that investments made in a couple of years time have a better chance of being successful and improving our squad for less cost than looking at Prem/Champ players once the momentum of the current squad has run out.
 
Woodwardfan said:
After a couple of pages on this excellent thread there was a stage when posters were saying something like " well this is a topic we are 100% agreed on -over to the Board". Well I've had my twopenneth as have a few others and now we have the opportunity to discuss the excellent article provided by Bush Blade above and which happens to sum up my personal view as expressed higher on this thread. What I have learned is that we have spent £2.8m on transfer fees and Stearman came for £1m and Baldock £650k, more than I ever imagined.

The article states Wilder's approach and reasons in detail. Would all those posters who criticised the club please comment with the benefit of Wilder's comments( and mine too!!;):p!!) and stated approach. That is the reality of the stage we are at.

Please comment Blades - healthy debate when we are under so much pressure after the absolute tragedy of 2 consecutive defeats! Wilder very wisely says in the article that unity/ spirit/ belief is probably more of an issue for the fans than the players and club officials when the pressure is on.
Click to expand...

It does seem slightly strange that the first time Wilder has mentioned this topic was pretty much directly after this thread was posted, probably a co-incidence but if not appreciate the response and in any event it is extremely interesting viewing.

Again I'll ask, was anyone else on here at the fan's forum and remember what else was said about overseas scouting? Not passing the buck as I brought this up but the rather (understandably) limited Tweet does indicate that it's a board decision but I did concede in this thread that it could be Wilder's doing and its clear it does have some affect on what goes on so I'll say this:

1. We should have a good overseas scouting infrastructure regardless of whether Wilder intends to use it or not. Perhaps they are acting upon it ('looking into it') as Wilder appears to lightly suggest, which if so is welcome but contradicts what McCabe was reported to have said on Twitter.

2. £2.8 million on transfers thus far is more than expected, but still relative peanuts in this division. I don't want a load of cash thrown into getting some random Wikipedia superstar but investment into overseas scouting because the resources surely must be there. It'll pay for itself if used correctly down the line.

3. Wilder will stand and fall on his decisions. He has the right to pursue this 'ethos' and so far he has been proved right. As I said in the OP nothing would make me more happy to be completely proved wrong in all of this. However I fear that we won't get players in because of 'lack of value', when there was good value overseas which appears to be neglected on these grounds. Wilder should not be immune to criticism, indeed it was common currency on here to knock him when we signed Ched Evans so....

4. ...whilst I do understand the 'team chemistry' part of football and that it was a crucial factor in our success it is still very puzzling if Maupay wasn't signed/looked into on these grounds. Who knows he may turn out to be a flop but 2 goals in 3 games already indicates where things might be going. Meanwhile look at who we have up front in contrast.
 
Ron_Justice said:
Apologies if this has already been asked - cba'd to trawl 5 pages - but how much can it really cost to set up a scouting network in, Belgium, say?

3 guys, 40k a year each, travel around the cities and digs while they're there, expenses. 250K a year? Half a million? Peanuts, even if they only come back with a Che Adams once a year, ready to be developed for a couple of years, then sold on. Let alone the more realistic idea of finding players that'll strengthen the first team.
Click to expand...
Make it £50k plus accomodation/travel/other expenses and I'll do Spain and Italy.
 
Perhaps we should look in the USA and Canada too. I'll do it, nominal salary, plus flights back to UK for games. There's a young player for Orlando City that a friend of mine raves about and there seems to be lots of young talent in Canada.
 
FMBlade1 said:
No-one is suggesting using Wikipedia so don't be facetious (knew the consensus wouldn't last and was too good to be true)

This takes time for sure, things should have been set in motion from 5pm on the 8th April. Its now 17th August, over four months that could have been spent getting things up and running. Yes it costs money but we were promised game changing investment, I can understand not wanting to blow huge fees on players but this set up is a no brainer.

We should have a good working knowledge of other leagues. How were Brentford able to sign Maupay?
Click to expand...

To be fair, Brentford have an extremely adventurous approach to new ideas, such as this.
 
Northyorksblade said:
Perhaps we should look in the USA and Canada too. I'll do it, nominal salary, plus flights back to UK for games. There's a young player for Orlando City that a friend of mine raves about and there seems to be lots of young talent in Canada.
Click to expand...

Work permits are an issue there. Lavery holds a British passport so is exempt.
 
FMBlade1 said:
It does seem slightly strange that the first time Wilder has mentioned this topic was pretty much directly after this thread was posted, probably a co-incidence but if not appreciate the response and in any event it is extremely interesting viewing.

Again I'll ask, was anyone else on here at the fan's forum and remember what else was said about overseas scouting? Not passing the buck as I brought this up but the rather (understandably) limited Tweet does indicate that it's a board decision but I did concede in this thread that it could be Wilder's doing and its clear it does have some affect on what goes on so I'll say this:

1. We should have a good overseas scouting infrastructure regardless of whether Wilder intends to use it or not. Perhaps they are acting upon it ('looking into it') as Wilder appears to lightly suggest, which if so is welcome but contradicts what McCabe was reported to have said on Twitter.

2. £2.8 million on transfers thus far is more than expected, but still relative peanuts in this division. I don't want a load of cash thrown into getting some random Wikipedia superstar but investment into overseas scouting because the resources surely must be there. It'll pay for itself if used correctly down the line.

3. Wilder will stand and fall on his decisions. He has the right to pursue this 'ethos' and so far he has been proved right. As I said in the OP nothing would make me more happy to be completely proved wrong in all of this. However I fear that we won't get players in because of 'lack of value', when there was good value overseas which appears to be neglected on these grounds. Wilder should not be immune to criticism, indeed it was common currency on here to knock him when we signed Ched Evans so....

4. ...whilst I do understand the 'team chemistry' part of football and that it was a crucial factor in our success it is still very puzzling if Maupay wasn't signed/looked into on these grounds. Who knows he may turn out to be a flop but 2 goals in 3 games already indicates where things might be going. Meanwhile look at who we have up front in contrast.
Click to expand...
Does everyone believe that we really paid 650,000 for Baldock? I'd be surprised if it was even half of this.
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...z?shareToken=e38f71809982849ac87f442f86d8b204

'Now that United are in the Championship, [SUFC] will start setting up a European scouting network'

Well that is a real positive if so. But that appears to totally contradict what McCabe said at the fan's forum on August 4th 'we are not acting on this at moment'.

What has changed since then? I would have hoped that we would have starting setting things up on April 8th but better late than never.
 
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FMBlade1 said:
I've been looking more into this briefly and it just makes me even more annoyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Maupay

This player had a decent scoring record in the French second division last season. The stats are all available on Wikipedia. It took me 30 seconds to find them.

He signs for Brentford for just £1.6 million and has already scored twice in three games. At the age of 21 and a former French youth international he is likely to only get better.

Could we have scouted him before Brentford got him?

If not, why not?
If we could, why didn't we?
Click to expand...

What is the standard like in the French Second Division? Possibly equivalent to League One?
Brest's average attendance is 7,500 so a big step up to playing in front of 10-30K every week.
He's played sporadically in the French First Division (Mostly Championship level?) but never nailed down a place.
It doesn't seem to be a particularly great value for money signing based on his appearance/goals record to date.

If we were going to spend £1.6M on a player, I would want him to have been proven at a higher level than Ligue 2.
He has potential to improve (like Brooks) but we aren't (yet) in a position to gamble that type of fee on potential.
 
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I really hope that there has been some development on this front over the past few months. The injuries along with difficulties with recruitment we have faced have made it more and more imperative that we can at least look elsewhere for what's available to strengthen us in January.This is what Prince Abdullah has had to say about it:

'I think we have a dilemma coming soon. The club has the DNA of Sheffield United; a good spirit and you feel proud when you watch the team play. It represents, for me, Sheffield as a city. But sooner or later there will be a challenge. Can we keep it as an English club. If we go to the Premier League, for sure we need some international players. Probably even if, God forbid, we stay in the Championship for a long time. We need to introduce international scouting for players. It is a must in the Premier League and a good thing in the Championship. English players are expensive. You can choose from a bigger pool.

I have a plan and my people will present it to the board. We want Sheffield United to be a world class club. But we also never want to fans to lose sight of the fact this is Sheffield United, their club. We never want them to feel it isn’t.'

It's all been rather quiet, really interested to know what this plan is and if it has been presented and what the result of these discussions are. It appears KM is more reluctant to this approach compared to PA
 
FMBlade1 said:
I really hope that there has been some development on this front over the past few months. The injuries along with difficulties with recruitment we have faced have made it more and more imperative that we can at least look elsewhere for what's available to strengthen us in January.This is what Prince Abdullah has had to say about it:

'I think we have a dilemma coming soon. The club has the DNA of Sheffield United; a good spirit and you feel proud when you watch the team play. It represents, for me, Sheffield as a city. But sooner or later there will be a challenge. Can we keep it as an English club. If we go to the Premier League, for sure we need some international players. Probably even if, God forbid, we stay in the Championship for a long time. We need to introduce international scouting for players. It is a must in the Premier League and a good thing in the Championship. English players are expensive. You can choose from a bigger pool.

I have a plan and my people will present it to the board. We want Sheffield United to be a world class club. But we also never want to fans to lose sight of the fact this is Sheffield United, their club. We never want them to feel it isn’t.'

It's all been rather quiet, really interested to know what this plan is and if it has been presented and what the result of these discussions are. It appears KM is more reluctant to this approach compared to PA
Click to expand...
I suspect the Belgian club the Prince supposedly bid for is the plan but that’s gone completely quiet since the end of October. It’s in Dutch but you should get the drift.

http://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20171031_03163028

There’s no evidence one way or the other on McCabe being supportive but I’d be surprised if he isn’t. Of course there may be more to the plan, none of it seems to be public yet.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
If only it was as simple as clicking 'upgrade scouting network'.
Click to expand...

Fair point, there's a reason I chose 'FMBlade' as a username ;)

However it's been 254 days, or 8 months since we gained promotion at Northampton.

What has been going on since then? The new club links look promising, but KM (no agenda have defended/supported him more than most) has said this is not something we are acting upon.

The question is, why not?
 
FMBlade1 said:
Fair point, there's a reason I chose 'FMBlade' as a username ;)

However it's been 254 days, or 8 months since we gained promotion at Northampton.

What has been going on since then? The new club links look promising, but KM (no agenda have defended/supported him more than most) has said this is not something we are acting upon.

The question is, why not?
Click to expand...


Money. Bit left field I know but.......
 
Always wondered what happened to the Scouting network we had in the 90s, produced a few gems, so shite also though mind. also what happened to the Belgian team we were already working with? R.W.S. Bruxelles?
 
I thought DJaffo was an overseas scout we used ? Surely it can't all be about money, it can't be that difficult to pay agents on a 'player found basis' a bit like how recruitment consultants get paid?
 
FriethBlade said:
it can't be that difficult to pay agents on a 'player found basis' a bit like how recruitment consultants get paid?
Click to expand...

It's not.

You then get innundated with highlights dvds that make people like Higdon, look like worldbeaters.

You have to have scouts you trust watching a play several times in a proper full match situation. So you are paying people full time plus travelling costs.
 
I should coco said:
It's not.

You then get innundated with highlights dvds that make people like Higdon, look like worldbeaters.

You have to have scouts you trust watching a play several times in a proper full match situation. So you are paying people full time plus travelling costs.
Click to expand...

And it’s ‘only’ £250-500k a year according to posters on here. Peanuts, apparently. When you’re shelling millions of your own cash to keep the club afloat, probably doesn’t seem it like
 
FriethBlade said:
I thought DJaffo was an overseas scout we used ? Surely it can't all be about money, it can't be that difficult to pay agents on a 'player found basis' a bit like how recruitment consultants get paid?
Click to expand...
What if some other club pays the agent a more generous fee for the 'player found'?
Don't really think that would fit in with our managers philosophy ;)
 
Alright then let's just keep trawling in the lower leagues and hope our academy throws up an occasional nugget....only in the backwater called Sheffield where time stands still and we yearn for the days of carrier pigeons and the horse and cart
 
FriethBlade said:
Alright then let's just keep trawling in the lower leagues and hope our academy throws up an occasional nugget....only in the backwater called Sheffield where time stands still and we yearn for the days of carrier pigeons and the horse and cart
Click to expand...
The other Sheffield club has done some good business signing foreigners. That Dutch defender looks fantastic.
 



So we don't have enough money for a decent abroad scouting system?

Or we do have the money but the board are refusing/can't get something sorted?

If either of those are the case its an absolute disgrace.
 
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