Say we get promoted..

[georgebernardshaw]

The team are doing a stonking job. It's crazy have a discussion like this now.
Anyhow I think there's a lot to be said for the Championship. Must be one of the best leagues in the world.

The like is for your user name (I considered Shy Talk for mine years ago), think you’ll fit in on here alright...

 

[pommpey]

Guess we'll all be praying we don't get promoted then?

Ask yourself the question:

"Who would we beat in the PL with the team we have right now?"

If you can't name ten possible wins - at least five of them away from home - then we are relegated.

And you know what happens then, don't you? We went up last time one brick thick up front and with a team pretty threadbare in PL experience.

pommpey

 

[pommpey]

Less mobile than 'Lead boots' Maguire?

Maguire wasn't half the player with us he is now with PL players around him. He has excelled unbelievably playing with and against players well above he was doing the same with back in Div One.

pommpey

 

[Ricky]

- - - - - - - - - Henderson

- - - - Holgate - Egan - O'Connell

Byram - McTominay - Fleck - Stevens

- - - - - - Bowen - - - - - Robinson

- - - - - - - - - - -Abraham




Boom.

 

[pommpey]

Fucking hell pommps, that’s one shite team we’ve got?

Nope. We have a great team at the moment. We are playing teams like Blackburn and Wigan and we turn it on.

Blackburn and Wigan aren't Arsenal and Spurs.

pommpey

 

[wizadry]

Ask yourself the question:

"Who would we beat in the PL with the team we have right now?"

If you can't name ten possible wins - at least five of them away from home - then we are relegated.

And you know what happens then, don't you? We went up last time one brick thick up front and with a team pretty threadbare in PL experience.

pommpey

I’m not going to name the wins because that’s impossible but this team as it stands would give all the bottom sides in the prem a game and one or two teams in the top half a game too, that I have no doubt.

 

[wizadry]

Nope. We have a great team at the moment. We are playing teams like Blackburn and Wigan and we turn it on.

Blackburn and Wigan aren't Arsenal and Spurs.

pommpey

See my post above mate.

 

[s4-blade]

It's about our ability to replace also.

Out of the usual lineup:

Goalies:

Henderson - Could perform okay at PL level, but would be a busy chap

Moore - I don't think he will cut it at PL level

We will need a credible second choice keeper, or a better, older, more experienced first choice with Hendo vying for his place.

Defence:

Stevens - Would struggle. PL defences would negate this advances and he'd be forced to defend deep. I couldn't imagine him having a happy 90 minutes with the likes of Salah running him ragged. We'd need to replace and that would be expensive.

Basham - A real revelation in the Championship. But can you see his advances getting past the Man United or Man City midfield? Do you think he has the dexterity to defend against even the lesser teams such as Palace, Burnley or Cardiff? He'd be a good squad player.

Egan - Yes. I think he'd have to have a decent pairing to work with and cut out errors and ricks such as the Leeds game one though

O'Connell - I think he is the least mobile of our central three and PL attacks would focus on that as a weakness. I think he is capable, but would have to warm the bench a few times. Again, more of a squad player, because I think the speed of passing and tendency for PL teams to overload certain areas of the pitch might show his vulnerability. Imagine him facing Firmino (agile, skilful and damned quick) or Lukaku (agile, quick for his size and doesn't give an inch)

Baldock - Nope. He is possibly at his level in the Championship.

Freeman - Again, seems to have peaked, rather disappointingly. He's not consistent enough for the next level and I don't think again, like Stevens, he'd get much chance to get forward and would be turned very easily by quick wingers. At the moment not many wingers get past our 'five', wherever it plays either as a 5-3-2 or a 3-5-2. In the PL it is an entirely different story.

We'd need at least one PL-ready Centre Back and two, maybe three quick, intelligent Wing Backs. That said, I wouldn't expect Wilder to pursue his current 'three-at-the-back'/'centrebacks-support-the-attack' tactics at first if at all if we went up. WIth the current squad, possession would be quickly lost and better teams up there will go straight on the counter, which will seriously cost us.

Midfield:

Fleck - Would possibly feature, but given the first part of this season has seen him seriously off the boil, would you think he'd even get the time on the ball against PL teams? I think he'll be a squad player more than a starter. We need far more craft and consistency from his position against tactically better teams. Needs replacing

Norwood - Deserves a place but again, needs to very much choose when he turns on the fancy stuff, because he won't get away with it upstairs quite so much as he does now. He's a talent and very possibly a PL regular, but he'll also need clever player round him to read his game and be available in space, or he'll end up running round in circles in the middle of the park.

Coutts - Jury is still out with him. Up until Nov 2017 he was developing - at last - into that talismanic entity we haven't had in midfield since Michael Brown. Since his return I think CW is struggling to find him a role again and he's finding it difficult to reestablish himself. Either way, he is well worth hanging on to

Lundstram - Nope

Duffy - I don't think - regretfully - he has it in him. We saw what a former PL player like Huddlestone can do to him the other day. If he is up against Matic of Fellaini, for example, he might as well sit in the stands

We will definitely need two new midfielders, and of those, both will have to have had PL experience. It's the area which gives me the fear the most at Utd. If we can't get a foothold in that area, we'll be overrun and not even get the ball out of our half

Forwards:

Sharp - Nope. The bloke is a Blades legend and he is simply ace, but PL defences would either be too quick or too clever for him. Played next season he'd struggle to get five goals.

McGoldrick - Not even close

Clarke - Nope

This is the place where we would need the entire selection changed. None of them have the capability to dent PL defences and I think even the likes of Fulham and Huddersfield would have an easy game against any of them, simply because they aren't quick enough or the supply to them isn't really good enough. None of them are Lambert or Murray, because none of them have the consistency of supply or the conversion capability per chances made.

So that is:

Another keeper - £1-2m
Two wingbacks and a Centreback - £25m
Two Midfielders (at least) - £35m
An entire front three - £50m

All of that - £100m plus - at knock down prices, just to survive.

Anyone see McCabe or HRH stumping up with that? Me neither. They haven't got the cash. Dream on.

pommpey

Fuck me. Morbid and clueless.

 

[s4-blade]

- - - - - - - - - Henderson

- - - - Holgate - Egan - O'Connell

Byram - McTominay - Fleck - Stevens

- - - - - - Bowen - - - - - Robinson

- - - - - - - - - - -Abraham




Boom.

McTominay with 5 Scotland caps over Norwood with 58 Northern Ireland caps?
That’s my only issue with that side

 

[pommpey]

Fuck me. Morbid and clueless.

How about this:

Instead of the 'you're a cunt, because you think this' you come back with a counter-argument, eh? C'mon. I've taken the time to show you my working out, and all you've come back with is shit.

So you see it as better than that, huh? Where? Who do you reckon we'll get three points off if we go up, with his side?

pommpey

 

[pommpey]

I’m not going to name the wins because that’s impossible but this team as it stands would give all the bottom sides in the prem a game and one or two teams in the top half a game too, that I have no doubt.

Yeah. But theres a difference between 'give them a game' and 'beat them'. We gave Spurs a 'game' a few years ago in the League Cup, both home and away. But they beat us. See also Hull in the Semi Final.

So, who would we beat, with this side? Newcastle? Burnley? Huddersfield? Fulham?

As we've seen before, it's the points which matter.

pommpey

 

[Harrisblade]

Maguire wasn't half the player with us he is now with PL players around him. He has excelled unbelievably playing with and against players well above he was doing the same with back in Div One.

pommpey

Maguire would likely be twice the player he was in our current team too

 

[wizadry]

- - - - - - - - - Henderson

- - - - Holgate - Egan - O'Connell

Byram - McTominay - Fleck - Stevens

- - - - - - Bowen - - - - - Robinson

- - - - - - - - - - -Abraham




Boom.

I think we might struggle big time with Jim Bowen, Anne Robinson and Abraham Lincoln up top Ricky.

 

[s4-blade]

How about this:

Instead of the 'you're a cunt, because you think this' you come back with a counter-argument, eh? C'mon. I've taken the time to show you my working out, and all you've come back with is shit.

So you see it as better than that, huh? Where? Who do you reckon we'll get three points off if we go up, with his side?

pommpey

First of all, nobody called you a cunt so give the ameture dramatics a break.

Honestly from the games I’ve watched the premier is not a death trap, there’s some average sides and player, some really poor games and outside of Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham, every game is a contest which could turn up a result. Currently I’d back us against
Huddersfield x2
Fulham at least once
Burnley
Cardiff (at home)
Newcastle
Southampton Bournemouth Wolves (beat them last year) and Brighton will all be good games
West Ham will be unpredictable (little bit of a derby about it)
We’d be capable of beating any team which came up with us
I’d also like to think we could spring a couple shocks on the “big clubs”.

If we were to look at it on a player by player basis:
Henderson - yes
Moore - no
Baldock - no
Basham - squad (his tackling technique will get him a lot of cards with the ridiculous premier referees)
Egan - yes
O’Connell - easily
Stevens - squad (albeit he’s improving week on week)
Freeman/Lafferty/Johnson/Cranie/Stearman - no (stearman perhaps could do a job)
Norwood - yes
Fleck - yes
Coutts - squad
Lunstram - no
Duffy - unfortunately no but keep him around
Mcgoldrick - squad
Leon/Washington - no
Sharp - never write billy sharp off

Edit - and that’s If we wanted to kick on in the league. Our current squad I’d back to survive as it is (maybe with an extra forward or two)

 

[Ricky]

McTominay with 5 Scotland caps over Norwood with 58 Northern Ireland caps?
That’s my only issue with that side

Scotland connection with Fleck.
Man Utd connection with Henderson.
Our connections to Man Utd with Nick Cox.
No more Mourinho, who can be reluctant to loan players out.
He'll want regular football next season.
Tall, athletic, right footed, all rounder. More suited to PL than Norwood.
Judging on international caps in this case is daft.

Think him and Fleck would be a good pairing!

I'd like Chris Wood up front as well, if he wasn't too expensive.



All speculating aside, if we were to get promoted I'd want us to invest sensibly on good young players, not go too stupid with wages, and to insert wage decrease clauses upon relegation. If we were relegated we'd then be in a very strong position to build further and go again.

 

[wizadry]

Yeah. But theres a difference between 'give them a game' and 'beat them'. We gave Spurs a 'game' a few years ago in the League Cup, both home and away. But they beat us. See also Hull in the Semi Final.

So, who would we beat, with this side? Newcastle? Burnley? Huddersfield? Fulham?

As we've seen before, it's the points which matter.

pommpey

As I said previously, it’s impossible to say but I think it’s reasonable and realistic to say that we could beat all the teams in the bottom half with this squad, just my opinion. What I will say though is that I’m not against us bringing better players in if it is indeed possible.

 

[Mumbo]

Goals are the same size aren’t they?....
So I might be on mi own here but Sharp will score in any league and at least half our current side will step up and surprise a few on here(again).

 

[Mumbo]

Goals are the same size aren’t they?....
So I might be on mi own here but Sharp will score in any league and at least half our current side will step up and surprise a few on here(again).

If we got promoted this year

 

[Tom Bott]

One thing to bare in mind looking at the PL table now

It is nearly over for the bottom 3, the January window is not gonna help em, and its what we did the last time

This should be being sorted now ................

Remember the christmas party in August, used to work wonders for DB.

Not David Brooks the other DB.

 

[pommpey]

First of all, nobody called you a cunt so give the ameture dramatics a break.

Honestly from the games I’ve watched the premier is not a death trap, there’s some average sides and player, some really poor games and outside of Liverpool, Man City, Tottenham, every game is a contest which could turn up a result. Currently I’d back us against
Huddersfield x2
Fulham at least once
Burnley
Cardiff (at home)
Newcastle
Southampton Bournemouth Wolves (beat them last year) and Brighton will all be good games
West Ham will be unpredictable (little bit of a derby about it)
We’d be capable of beating any team which came up with us
I’d also like to think we could spring a couple shocks on the “big clubs”.

If we were to look at it on a player by player basis:
Henderson - yes
Moore - no
Baldock - no
Basham - squad (his tackling technique will get him a lot of cards with the ridiculous premier referees)
Egan - yes
O’Connell - easily
Stevens - squad (albeit he’s improving week on week)
Freeman/Lafferty/Johnson/Cranie/Stearman - no (stearman perhaps could do a job)
Norwood - yes
Fleck - yes
Coutts - squad
Lunstram - no
Duffy - unfortunately no but keep him around
Mcgoldrick - squad
Leon/Washington - no
Sharp - never write billy sharp off

So, rather than 'morbid and clueless', you more or less agree with that I had to say, then? I haven't 'written Billy Sharp off', however in realistic terms, he'll be another year older set against defences who constitute much of the world class standard in positional and tactical strategies. It's not writing him off to say that against that, he'd possibly be lucky to bag five goals, none of them against the top seven clubs either. I don't doubt O'Connells ability, especially at this level, but even as part of a four man defence with someone like Norwood or Fleck doing the Nicky Butt spadework, teams like Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool go on the counter and set up an overload on specific players or zones. I see him as a target for that. If it doesn't result in him being outflanked, it will result in him making rash tackle after rash tackle and the last thing you want is a free kick in a dangerous area (see Stoke and Derby at home this season for a classic example)

We will need investment, and we simply have not got the money to do that. I think McCabe has made that very, very clear even when we were hoping 'Game Changing Investments' actually meant summat one division down and the fact that our record signing has been a fraction of our record sale, both of them within months of each other.

Nice of you to take the time to answer correctly though. Didn't hurt, did it?

pommpey

 

[s4-blade]

So, rather than 'morbid and clueless', you more or less agree with that I had to say, then? I haven't 'written Billy Sharp off', however in realistic terms, he'll be another year older set against defences who constitute much of the world class standard in positional and tactical strategies. It's not writing him off to say that against that, he'd possibly be lucky to bag five goals, none of them against the top seven clubs either. I don't doubt O'Connells ability, especially at this level, but even as part of a four man defence with someone like Norwood or Fleck doing the Nicky Butt spadework, teams like Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool go on the counter and set up an overload on specific players or zones. I see him as a target for that. If it doesn't result in him being outflanked, it will result in him making rash tackle after rash tackle and the last thing you want is a free kick in a dangerous area (see Stoke and Derby at home this season for a classic example)

We will need investment, and we simply have not got the money to do that. I think McCabe has made that very, very clear even when we were hoping 'Game Changing Investments' actually meant summat one division down and the fact that our record signing has been a fraction of our record sale, both of them within months of each other.

Nice of you to take the time to answer correctly though. Didn't hurt, did it?

pommpey

No I don’t agree with what you said. You’ve doubted pretty much every single player in the squad and predicted relegation, ive stated my point that I reckon we would comfortably stay up with at least half the squad acquitting themselves to the level.

Man City and Liverpool will go straight through us yes, but they go through every other fucker in the country and the continent as well, they aren’t the competition we need to measure against.

Billy Sharp may be a year older but he’s 3 years younger than Glenn Murray, a very similar player who scored 14 last year and has 8 already this year. When, you didn’t have pace in the first place, you can’t lose it.

Jack O’Connell never makes bad challenges either, I don’t think he’s had 10 bookings total while he’s been here, derby was a handball and Stoke was a pathetic dive by crouch (and I think it was against Stevens not O’Connell).

And yes we do need investment and we don’t have the money right now, but don’t forget the £200m golden envelope sky deliver every year up there.

 

[RMBlade]

------Sharp-----Josef Martinez------
-------------------Almiron----------------
---------Fleck--------Norwood---------
Stevens-----------------------------Lala
----------JOC-------Egan------Bash--
----------------Henderson--------------

Replace Lundstram/competition for Fleck

 

[snootyfenooty]

It's about our ability to replace also.

Out of the usual lineup:

Goalies:

Henderson - Could perform okay at PL level, but would be a busy chap

Moore - I don't think he will cut it at PL level

We will need a credible second choice keeper, or a better, older, more experienced first choice with Hendo vying for his place.

Defence:

Stevens - Would struggle. PL defences would negate this advances and he'd be forced to defend deep. I couldn't imagine him having a happy 90 minutes with the likes of Salah running him ragged. We'd need to replace and that would be expensive.

Basham - A real revelation in the Championship. But can you see his advances getting past the Man United or Man City midfield? Do you think he has the dexterity to defend against even the lesser teams such as Palace, Burnley or Cardiff? He'd be a good squad player.

Egan - Yes. I think he'd have to have a decent pairing to work with and cut out errors and ricks such as the Leeds game one though

O'Connell - I think he is the least mobile of our central three and PL attacks would focus on that as a weakness. I think he is capable, but would have to warm the bench a few times. Again, more of a squad player, because I think the speed of passing and tendency for PL teams to overload certain areas of the pitch might show his vulnerability. Imagine him facing Firmino (agile, skilful and damned quick) or Lukaku (agile, quick for his size and doesn't give an inch)

Baldock - Nope. He is possibly at his level in the Championship.

Freeman - Again, seems to have peaked, rather disappointingly. He's not consistent enough for the next level and I don't think again, like Stevens, he'd get much chance to get forward and would be turned very easily by quick wingers. At the moment not many wingers get past our 'five', wherever it plays either as a 5-3-2 or a 3-5-2. In the PL it is an entirely different story.

We'd need at least one PL-ready Centre Back and two, maybe three quick, intelligent Wing Backs. That said, I wouldn't expect Wilder to pursue his current 'three-at-the-back'/'centrebacks-support-the-attack' tactics at first if at all if we went up. WIth the current squad, possession would be quickly lost and better teams up there will go straight on the counter, which will seriously cost us.

Midfield:

Fleck - Would possibly feature, but given the first part of this season has seen him seriously off the boil, would you think he'd even get the time on the ball against PL teams? I think he'll be a squad player more than a starter. We need far more craft and consistency from his position against tactically better teams. Needs replacing

Norwood - Deserves a place but again, needs to very much choose when he turns on the fancy stuff, because he won't get away with it upstairs quite so much as he does now. He's a talent and very possibly a PL regular, but he'll also need clever player round him to read his game and be available in space, or he'll end up running round in circles in the middle of the park.

Coutts - Jury is still out with him. Up until Nov 2017 he was developing - at last - into that talismanic entity we haven't had in midfield since Michael Brown. Since his return I think CW is struggling to find him a role again and he's finding it difficult to reestablish himself. Either way, he is well worth hanging on to

Lundstram - Nope

Duffy - I don't think - regretfully - he has it in him. We saw what a former PL player like Huddlestone can do to him the other day. If he is up against Matic of Fellaini, for example, he might as well sit in the stands

We will definitely need two new midfielders, and of those, both will have to have had PL experience. It's the area which gives me the fear the most at Utd. If we can't get a foothold in that area, we'll be overrun and not even get the ball out of our half

Forwards:

Sharp - Nope. The bloke is a Blades legend and he is simply ace, but PL defences would either be too quick or too clever for him. Played next season he'd struggle to get five goals.

McGoldrick - Not even close

Clarke - Nope

This is the place where we would need the entire selection changed. None of them have the capability to dent PL defences and I think even the likes of Fulham and Huddersfield would have an easy game against any of them, simply because they aren't quick enough or the supply to them isn't really good enough. None of them are Lambert or Murray, because none of them have the consistency of supply or the conversion capability per chances made.

So that is:

Another keeper - £1-2m
Two wingbacks and a Centreback - £25m
Two Midfielders (at least) - £35m
An entire front three - £50m

All of that - £100m plus - at knock down prices, just to survive.

Anyone see McCabe or HRH stumping up with that? Me neither. They haven't got the cash. Dream on.

pommpey

Yep and that's the reality folks. Anyone advocating a team in the prem comprising the majority of what we have now needs to see a shrink. We would get slaughtered every week. The only thing that has surprised me in the previous posts is that no one has suggested a Jake Wright comeback as a "calming influence". That might be a good idea when we are 6-0 down.

For me the only starters are Henderson (if we buy him), JOC (the next Harry), a fully fit Coutts and Billy provided he has the players around him to supply multiple chances in and around the six yard box. If not he would be next to useless in the prem. I would put Bash down as a wild card and thats about it. Sorry.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Look at Burnley rather than Fulham. That’s the sort of approach we’d take. Except we’d be doing it with an attacking 5-3-2 rather than a rigid 4-4-2.

Maybe 4 new players into the first team, 5 at a push. Stabilise and grow.

Primarily keep Henderson, RWB, RCB AM and a couple of strikers as ours are ageing.

 

[blade too long]

We currently have the 2nd best goals against so aren't too bad defensively and the 2nd best gd . 2 forwards with 25 goals between them.
Whenever we've played prem teams of late we've acquitted our selves really well beating several and pushing spurs to the last 3 minutes of the semi and man Utd to an extra time winner
We don't lose 7 at man city like some
Wed have stayed up last time if the prem actually punished cheating teams
This squad is much better than Warnocks in depth and skill

 

[Eric Cartman]

The same people writing this squad off are probably the same ones who doubted our lads previously when we came up to the Championship.

Cardiff arent doing too badly having just gone up with a mainly ‘championship standard’ side. Burnley didn’t do badly either and they still have a number of players they went up with. Qualified for Europe last year.

Write them off at your peril but anyone who doesn’t think Egan, JOC, Fleck, Norwood and on current form Stevens aren’t capable of premier league football are fools.

 

[Worksop II]

but anyone who doesn’t think Egan, JOC, Fleck, Norwood and on current form Stevens aren’t capable of premier league football are fools.

Well, thats DeBrune marked nice and tight, just the other 10 fuckers to worry abhart

 

[Eric Cartman]

Well, thats DeBrune marked nice and tight, just the other 10 fuckers to worry abhart

I think comparing us and Man City might be a stretch.

 

[wizadry]

Yep and that's the reality folks. Anyone advocating a team in the prem comprising the majority of what we have now needs to see a shrink. We would get slaughtered every week. The only thing that has surprised me in the previous posts is that no one has suggested a Jake Wright comeback as a "calming influence". That might be a good idea when we are 6-0 down.

For me the only starters are Henderson (if we buy him), JOC (the next Harry), a fully fit Coutts and Billy provided he has the players around him to supply multiple chances in and around the six yard box. If not he would be next to useless in the prem. I would put Bash down as a wild card and thats about it. Sorry.

I’ve just booked my appointment, snoots.

 

[pommpey]

No I don’t agree with what you said. You’ve doubted pretty much every single player in the squad and predicted relegation, ive stated my point that I reckon we would comfortably stay up with at least half the squad acquitting themselves to the level.

Man City and Liverpool will go straight through us yes, but they go through every other fucker in the country and the continent as well, they aren’t the competition we need to measure against.

Billy Sharp may be a year older but he’s 3 years younger than Glenn Murray, a very similar player who scored 14 last year and has 8 already this year. When, you didn’t have pace in the first place, you can’t lose it.

Jack O’Connell never makes bad challenges either, I don’t think he’s had 10 bookings total while he’s been here, derby was a handball and Stoke was a pathetic dive by crouch (and I think it was against Stevens not O’Connell).

And yes we do need investment and we don’t have the money right now, but don’t forget the £200m golden envelope sky deliver every year up there.

Bit contradictory, is that. You start off by slating me for saying we'd be relegated and we'd stay up but finish by saying we'd need investment. You also disqualify that by saying we'd get a payoff from Sky … if we stayed up. What do we need then? Investment, or no investment?

You still have no comparison as to our form now (which is getting significantly better, but let's not kid ourselves, West Brom sat us down on our arses) to what we'd face - with the same team against Watford, Burnley and Newcastle. Some of the very same sides we would hope to pick points off if we were promoted. Couple that with severe drubbings by the top teams (and when you are taken to the fucking cleaners at home, on Sky by Klopp's second eleven that takes some explaining away and revitalising of team spirit, especially when your next game is at the Etihad or the new White Hart Lane in four days time) then your collective talent and strength in depth really counts. I don't feel we have any of that, and are not structurally set up for that challenge. I'd like to believe we are - I want to see SUFC playing in the top flight - but for me the reality is that without the investment 'now' and at least a season to truly dominate, we'd be struggling from day one with WIlder resigning/sacked by Xmas. I don't want to see the best manager we've had in fifty years gone, and taking up office in a club which can support his talents.

The players we have are great. They are triers and they cost a pittance in real footballing terms - even our record signing. But we aint got the range for the long game. Not yet anyway.

pommpey