Safe Standing consultation

[LoughboroBlade]

On Friday, the Football League wrote to all 72 clubs to seek their views on potentially changing the governing laws to allow Safe Standing at all its grounds. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25526329

Quite a few clubs have already come out and supported this in principle - I don't think United have said anything on this to date one way or another.

I've posted before on here about why I think this would be a positive move. I doubt we've any imminent ground redevelopment plans, but wouldn't it be nice to have this as an option when the Kop is ultimately redeveloped for example? Would be great if in the spirit of better communications with our fans the new powers-that-be at the club could try and consult with fans before responding to the Football League.

 

[boo radley]

Happy sat. I have no problem with a standing area.

 

[Foxy]

Quite a few clubs have already come out and supported this in principle - I don't think United have said anything on this to date one way or another.

I've posted before on here about why I think this would be a positive move. I doubt we've any imminent ground redevelopment plans, but wouldn't it be nice to have this as an option when the Kop is ultimately redeveloped for example? Would be great if in the spirit of better communications with our fans the new powers-that-be at the club could try and consult with fans before responding to the Football League.

As mentioned before, the club have met with the Safe Standing advocates and have had demonstrations of the proposed set-ups.

The problems we have are very simple:

• The cost associated with any major re-development
• The views and recommendations of the safety advisory board and therefore the ability to host fixtures
• The spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area
• The dramatic reduction of capacity in the event of the relevant authorities even allowing "Safe Standing" to go ahead

I have no problem with standing and generally prefer the option to, but I can't ever see it returning in the near to mid term future no matter how much support any campaign receives.

I'll seek to clarify the response to the more recent canvassing, but I can predict that the club won't be the problem in the "fight" for safe standing.

 

[shorehamview]

I too can't see it returning any time soon, and agree that it will not be the club's fault, or indeed the fault of any club. It won't happen, it's for the reasons that Foxy has outlined. The cost would be crippling for many clubs - the German style of safe standing bears little resemblance to English terraces.

I would rather sit down these days. I've not been on a terrace for at least seven years, at the mighty Gretna FC, and after the first half I came to realise that standing in the cold and arthritis don't really go well together.

 

[axel smeets]

As mentioned before, the club have met with the Safe Standing advocates and have had demonstrations of the proposed set-ups.

The problems we have are very simple:

• The cost associated with any major re-development
• The views and recommendations of the safety advisory board and therefore the ability to host fixtures
• The spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area
• The dramatic reduction of capacity in the event of the relevant authorities even allowing "Safe Standing" to go ahead

I have no problem with standing and generally prefer the option to, but I can't ever see it returning in the near to mid term future no matter how much support any campaign receives.

I'll seek to clarify the response to the more recent canvassing, but I can predict that the club won't be the problem in the "fight" for safe standing.

Could I just make one point, Foxy, if I may? The reference to the spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area; this should not be an issue for United, as it was the corruption of SYP in collusion with SWFC that was ultimately responsible for this tragedy. Leave the massive to their own devices I say.

 

[Foxy]

Could I just make one point, Foxy, if I may? The reference to the spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area; this should not be an issue for United, as it was the corruption of SYP in collusion with SWFC that was ultimately responsible for this tragedy. Leave the massive to their own devices I say.

This I know, but I doubt the local authorities/advisory groups will think the same way.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

It would be a great move, adding more to the matchday experience - not just at the Lane but nationwide. Definitely a positive step forward. Which is exactly why I expect no change.

 

[Jimmy23]

Who wants them back at BDTBL because i know i do!

 

[broomhillblade]

Could I just make one point, Foxy, if I may? The reference to the spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area; this should not be an issue for United, as it was the corruption of SYP in collusion with SWFC that was ultimately responsible for this tragedy. Leave the massive to their own devices I say.

The problems with Hillsborough were not directly due to standing. It was the fencing at the front - designed keep fans in - that caused the mayhem. Without it the fans would not have been crushed. There were other contributory factors, of course...

 

[zablade]

Back half of the Kop converted to standing would make for a great atmosphere..

...And lazy gets like me can still sit in our seats on the front half of the Kop.

 

[Linz]

We might want them, the club have even investgated the implications, but until we get a Safety Advisory Group who don't also cover Hillsborough, it's a non-starter.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Why is there not an independent SAG for each ground?

 

[Selly]

We might want them, the club have even investgated the implications, but until we get a Safety Advisory Group who don't also cover Hillsborough, it's a non-starter.

Why should we be affected by something that happened 25 years ago at a ground on the other side of the city???

Someones human rights are being impinged here. Maybe the ECHR can be used for good...

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire ⚔]

nope for me like seating to much i also collect seats i know a leeds fan who has loads

 

[axel smeets]

The problems with Hillsborough were not directly due to standing. It was the fencing at the front - designed keep fans in - that caused the mayhem. Without it the fans would not have been crushed. There were other contributory factors, of course...

Bang on, broomhill. Without the fences, the fans would simply have spilled out onto the pitch, and presumably, no one would have died. In addition, if swfc had a valid safety certificate, then the disaster would not have happened here, in this city, although it possibly would have happened elsewhere.

 

[Blackheath Blade]

nope for me like seating to much i also collect seats i know a leeds fan who has loads

You collect seats?? Are you building a new stand in your back garden or something?

With regard to your comment about the Leeds fan who has loads of them, this puzzles me as they usually throw their seats at opposing fans dont they?

 

[Jehovah]

I feel like laying down at games, not standing up.

 

[Harry's Game]

Much as I would like to see standing areas return it is never going to happen I am afraid, the goverment will veto it. Even though the rules are clearly a face when you can have 20k standing up for rugby league games in Bradford and Leeds, why is that safe but not safe at football grounds?

 

[sothall blade]

You collect seats?? Are you building a new stand in your back garden or something?

With regard to your comment about the Leeds fan who has loads of them, this puzzles me as they usually throw their seats at opposing fans dont they?

perhaps thats what he is collecting !

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

I'd like to see terraces back, the seats at the lane are far to close even on the south stand my legs are just too damn long for them I'm either kneeing the chap in front or i'm sat in some funny position ... also the tickets on a terrace stand should be cheaper.

 

[munich]

A couple of weeks ago I was in the standing area for Munich 1860 v St Pauli in the Allianz Arena, Munich. The standing area is created by simply tipping the seats up. There are a few crash barriers but not many. I was with the St Pauli fans who spent the whole game singing, jumping around and generally having a good time. There was abs0lutely no problem. I cant see any good argument against reintroducing standing areas.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

As mentioned before, the club have met with the Safe Standing advocates and have had demonstrations of the proposed set-ups.

The problems we have are very simple:

• The cost associated with any major re-development
• The views and recommendations of the safety advisory board and therefore the ability to host fixtures
• The spectre of Hillsborough hanging over the area
• The dramatic reduction of capacity in the event of the relevant authorities even allowing "Safe Standing" to go ahead

I have no problem with standing and generally prefer the option to, but I can't ever see it returning in the near to mid term future no matter how much support any campaign receives.

I'll seek to clarify the response to the more recent canvassing, but I can predict that the club won't be the problem in the "fight" for safe standing.

Appreciate those thoughts. Re: the specific issues you raise....

Cost: if we're intent on redeveloping an area of the ground in the future, I don't see why it would cost any more to build safe standing than build a new area of seating. If the costs are prohibitive to adjusting current areas, those clubs simply wouldn't do it. For those considering new developments though...

Safety Advisory Board: I doubt any decision to lift the ban on this would be taken in isolation. Frankly it's taken small incremental steps to get to the stage where the FL is even considering the issue.

Hillsborough: point taken. It shouldn't influence opinion in my view, but I can see why it would for some.

Capacity: confused by this. Are you suggesting that in the event safe standing was brought in that all clubs would redevelop all their existing seating into safe seats? Your concern on cost would suggest this sort of change wouldn't happen - and I'd agree with that. So I'm not sure why a dramatic change in capacity would happen. In the event we redevelop the Kop, or add a corner in the remaing gap, would making those new areas designated safe standing zones substantially alter our ground capacity?

I've mentioned it to Jim Phipps - he seems personally supportive if it can be done safely, and was warm to the idea of engaging fans on it. Again, even if we don't personally want to build this into BDTBL I think it's important that the club not place itself in a position where it opposes an overall change in principle, when other clubs may want to introduce it.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

standing in the cold and arthritis don't really go well together.

Shrewsbury away nearly killed me

Bollocks to standing

 

[Foxy]

Capacity: confused by this. Are you suggesting that in the event safe standing was brought in that all clubs would redevelop all their existing seating into safe seats? Your concern on cost would suggest this sort of change wouldn't happen - and I'd agree with that. So I'm not sure why a dramatic change in capacity would happen. In the event we redevelop the Kop, or add a corner in the remaing gap, would making those new areas designated safe standing zones substantially alter our ground capacity?

If it was a new development in an area previously unoccupied, then yes, it wouldn't substantially alter capacity.

If however, we said we were rebuilding the Kop and it'll all or perhaps half become safe standing, then the capacity available in the same space would be reduced due to the requirements as regards safety (we'll never, ever, see traditional style terracing return - at best there may be sanitised terracing).

The club, via the Supporters Liaison Officer have never avoided the subject, it's just really not got the legs to get anywhere at the moment IMO. I don't think we'll be ruling ourselves out of anything, I just don't expect us to vociferously rule ourselves in either

As for speaking to Jim Phipps, he's keen to do what he can to engage fans and also improve the setup/atmosphere in the ground, some of which I think we'll see before much longer, but in my opinion the best we'll see in the near to mid future is us continuing to keep an eye on developments on the standing side.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire ⚔]

You collect seats?? Are you building a new stand in your back garden or something?

With regard to your comment about the Leeds fan who has loads of them, this puzzles me as they usually throw their seats at opposing fans dont they?

i dont really collect seats

 

[cahill]

Hasten the day when we can stand at matches again. I stand at the back of the kop and it so enriches the match day experience. Would be nice to have the choice of sitting or standing. Unless you can't on health grounds standing should be made compulsory.

While we're at it get rid of Captain Blade, music when a goal is scored, and stewards every 5 yards watching your every move and utterance.

 

[diplomat]

Am I right in thinking some types of safe standing are pretty much like being allocated a seat? By that I mean that you have a ticket for a specific space that is hemmed in with barriers where there is no possibility of any kind of surge. It wouldn't be much different than saying to people that they are allowed to stand up in the seated area. Any return to the type of free roaming standing zones like the old kop or rugby grounds just will not be allowed.

 

[madeinsheffield]

Either standing at rear or the front (like john st used to be) would be a winner in my opinion, best of both worlds

 

[itsinyerblood]

i dont really collect seats

It's no good teesideblade, your dark secret is no longer hidden, in that emporium your refer to as 'the garden shed', there resides the finest collection of football stadia seating this side Wembley Stadium. It's long been suspected that you are a seatologist, but your denial just won't wash, own up mate, help can be found, but don't delay, before you know it your world will consist of nothing but seat related trivia and you will be lost forever.....apart from that, how ya doin' mate? UTB

 

[Linz]

Am I right in thinking some types of safe standing are pretty much like being allocated a seat? By that I mean that you have a ticket for a specific space that is hemmed in with barriers where there is no possibility of any kind of surge.

That was the impression I got when it was mentioned at the last meeting. The capacity of the Kop would be vastly reduced due to the "safe" numbers allowed in these pens. United can actually fit more people on the Kop with seats than they would ever be allowed to with "safe standing" implications.

Obviously therefore, the costs are not only in the installation of these pens, but also a reduced ticket income from the capacity.

And yes, we know that Hillsborough shouldn't have a bearing on us. But when the SAG is part of Sheffield Council, they are always going to. Saying the sky is green doesn't make it so I'm afraid.

Threads merged by the way...