Sad, sick and desperate:

[matth]

I said it's not just that he left us for a bigger and better position.

Basically I'm saying that if he'd gone to say for instance Bolton or Spurs or Everton as a number 2, most people would hopefully have wished him well, and said good luck, and that it was a good career move.

Similarly, if he was going to Leeds as their manager, that might have been less of a slap in the face.

But as he went to do exactly the same job for one of our most hated rivals - especially at a time that, if memory serves (and it very possibly doesn't at 20 past 4 on a Friday) they were in the beginning stages of their decline - he was considered by many fans to have betrayed us. Again, whether that's right or wrong is not for me to decide, but they're the reasons that I think are behind it.

For the record, after he left us I fucking hated him. When he came back, I forgave and forgot, but now due to an entirely different set of circumstances I'm getting back to fucking hating him again.

 

[Ted Danson]

but Warnock got his results in the same mediocre league so what makes him so much better and lots of bassets results were in worse leagues too.

 

[alcoblade]

Don't get me wrong Basset and Warnock are legends and I prefer them both to Blackwell but statistics state that Blackwell is more effective, i.e. won a greater percentage. Someone posted on here the actual stats the other week and Blackwell was second, can't remember who was first, maybe John Harris, he's before my time so can't really comment.

You can't just say he's crap because you don't like him.

As I've said above, his stats are commendable. But he simply cant compare (yet?) to the likes of Bassett, Warnock, Harris etc. They managed for much longer periods, with far less resource, in higher divisions.

When Blackwell left us, he left a No2 spot at a lower division club for a No2 spot at a higher division club. He clearly got a bigger job and as stated previously, did what 99.9% of other professionals would have.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

but Warnock got his results in the same mediocre league so what makes him so much better and lots of bassets results were in worse leagues too.

they both got us promoted with far less resource at their disposal. Blackwell can't seriously be compared to them in a list of United greats. If he were to leave tomorrow, he wouldn't be talked about in 10 years time. Bassett and Warnock will never be forgotten.

UTB

 

[Grecian2000]

but Warnock got his results in the same mediocre league so what makes him so much better and lots of bassets results were in worse leagues too.

I despise NW like the next man (indeed more so than most) but his Cup Semi Finals and PROMOTION are acheivements that Blackwell hasn't got on his CV.

As for Harry and John Harris, I suggest you wait for some of the later versions of Walthy's epic journey and remember when we had teams that could get to and survive in the top division.

 

[alcoblade]

I despise NW like the next man (indeed more so than most) but his Cup Semi Finals and PROMOTION are acheivements that Blackwell hasn't got on his CV.

As for Harry and John Harris, I suggest you wait for some of the later versions of Walthy's epic journey and remember when we had teams that could get to and survive in the top division.

mind you, it does remind me of how poor the football was under Bassett. He had plenty of excuse given the terrible backing he had, but even Blackwell's teams are more pleasing to the eye than Bassett's.

Bassett showed that two mobile and effective forwards are what's required for percentage football. Sadly we've now got percentage football without the mobile forwards.


UTB

 

[Ted Danson]

My point is that the first post in this thread is bollox and reactionary as Blackwell or whoever published the programme has every right to say that he is the most successfull manager (well second most) as the stats back it up.

I believe that if we hadn't had this injury crisis he would have statistically been the most successfull but I fully understand your point about other managers actually achieving things. Maybe if Blackwell was given as much time as these other managers he will achieve more than them.

 

[matth]

I despise NW like the next man

That next man won't be me then

 

[alcoblade]

My point is that the first post in this thread is bollox and reactionary as Blackwell or whoever published the programme has every right to say that he is the most successfull manager (well second most) as the stats back it up.

I believe that if we hadn't had this injury crisis he would have statistically been the most successfull but I fully understand your point about other managers actually achieving things. Maybe if Blackwell was given as much time as these other managers he will achieve more than them.

Good post. I think it's a bit of spin though. He isn't the most successul by any score. He has got (one of?) the best records in terms of win%, but you don't get a cigar for that.

In terms of more time, the direction of travel isn't looking good. At least of late (Doncaster, Cardiff) the team has showed signs of attempting to vary the play a bit.

UTB

 

[Grecian2000]

"Maybe if Blackwell was given as much time as these other managers he will achieve more than them."

And only time will tell on that one

 

[Highbury_Blade]

they both got us promoted with far less resource at their disposal. Blackwell can't seriously be compared to them in a list of United greats. If he were to leave tomorrow, he wouldn't be talked about in 10 years time. Bassett and Warnock will never be forgotten.

UTB

Not if they'd left after less than two seasons they wouldn't have....

 

[Micalijo]

Did we really need reminding that Evans is one of the highest paid players in the division? Did Ched himself need this?

Very strange that his comments about still relatively big spending seem to in total contrast to what our pathetic manager has been saying recently.

 

[Micalijo]

Sorry - wrong thread!!

 

[alcoblade]

Not if they'd left after less than two seasons they wouldn't have....

Good point. Sadly for Blackwell he comes at a time when there are, rightly, higher expectations. Even allowing for the sales, he has far more resource than they had. At the same time, he was desperately unlucky last year, and right now we're crippled with injuries.

I'm on the fence with Blackwell (or just on the "out side"). I can accept many of the excuses. I'm just bored of the style of play which we've endured for the best part of 2 decades. But in all honesty, if we were winning every week, I'd probably still accept it. I just can't see it happening because of our approach / forward line.

UTB

 

[bettsyblade86]

Good point. Sadly for Blackwell he comes at a time when there are, rightly, higher expectations. Even allowing for the sales, he has far more resource than they had. At the same time, he was desperately unlucky last year, and right now we're crippled with injuries.

I'm on the fence with Blackwell (or just on the "out side"). I can accept many of the excuses. I'm just bored of the style of play which we've endured for the best part of 2 decades. But in all honesty, if we were winning every week, I'd probably still accept it. I just can't see it happening because of our approach / forward line.

UTB

Probably one of the best constructed posts I've seen on here for (what seems like) a long time. On topic and well reasoned, and I just happen to agree with it entirely.

 

[alcoblade]

Probably one of the best constructed posts I've seen on here for (what seems like) a long time. On topic and well reasoned, and I just happen to agree with it entirely.

The cheque is in the post.

 

[Fiery Blade]

"Maybe if Blackwell was given as much time as these other managers he will achieve more than them."

And only time will tell on that one

Whilst it appears that most people on this forum think I am a Blaclckwell hater it is just not true!
I don't hate the guy I just happen to think that when it comes to MANAGING a team he is not that good!
To compare him against the likes of John Harris, Dave Bassett and even Neil Warnock is ludicrous.
All he has done is take a bunch of very talented players that Robson had collected and got them playing to near their potential for a period of time - exactly the same as Mark Robins has for the dingles.
Since then, on his own admission had a squad on the highest wages in the division (or near enough) sold the better players and replaced them with not so good players But he even couldn't do that properly as we finished in the play off final with two loan players Lupoli and Craig Beattie neither who were as good as the players we had sold!
John Harris may I remind everyone brought through Mick Jones, Alan Birchanall, Len Badger, Bernard Shaw etc and bought gems like Willie Carlin, Tony Currie, Trevor Hockey etc for peanuts and Bassett did much the same with Deane, Agana, Hodges,Gayle, Tracey, Rees, Kelly etc
No everyone, Mr Blackwell should not be mentioned in the same sentence as those two guys!

 

[Fiery Blade]

Sorry, Blaclckwell was sticking in my throat please read Blackwell!

 

[matth]

Let's be honest too - Blackwell could have a great win record, but if he doesn't win either enough to get us up automatically or win the one vital game that takes us up, it's all for naught and doesn't mean a jot.