Robinson v Burke

[Revolution]

That's disrespectful to Littlejohn. He at least had the odd decent finish on him

Littlejohn scored 11 PL goals. Some of our forwards can only dream of being so prolific.

On that note, 3 United players have double figure PL goals: Deano (15), Littlejohn (11) and Whitehouse (10). This 2 season spell is nearly over and a grand total of zero players have joined them on this milestone. Didzy is closest with 8.

 

[SouthportBlade]

Robinson is a decent enough player, but was an awful signing for us. Terrible fit for our system. Lets not rewrite history, he was garbage for us.

Burke is a pretty poor player, and whilst not a great signing gave us something different with the ability to stretch the game with his blistering pace - and to his credit has looked really dangerous in some games.

It's fair to say neither are out and out Centre Forwards and not remotely suited to our 3-5-2. Put either in the right system, most probably wide players in a front 3, and could be good Championship players (and maybe acceptable Premier League players)

Next season I'd be inclined to give Burke a go at RWB against lesser opposition, as could be a huge outlet!

 

[BladeTillIDie]

burke has to be played as a winger in a 442 set up and if we dont play that system might as well get rid he aint a striker wilder took a punt and like a few other punts it hasnt come off

Sick of these "punt" signings. Morrison and Rodwell were joke signings as were never going to be played even if fit. Waste of a bloody wage.

 

[Billyblade]

 

[The Crab]

View attachment 112823

Thought it was an advert for Trustatrader.com until I saw the book

 

[blade67]

Confidence seems to be a factor for Robinson. Clearly a really good footballer at high end Championship level, he looked totally lost for us. 5 in 23 this season is a much better return and he will be great for WBA next season.

Burke has been a total failure so far in a total failure team and he now appears to be cruising through games. I'm personally giving all our forwards something of a pass this year, due to the shocking service they have had. He'd be 5th choice if I was picking the team ATM (except for injuries)

 

[ancientblade]

cant see a role for burke unless we start playing with wingers think he may be moved on by the new manager

 

[Nedski]

I liked Burke when he came in but he's been awful since the Man Utd game. He's never looked like a footballer but did look like an athlete, but for a few weeks he's looked like Higdon.

We're the last "big" club he'll ever play for, we're his last chance at having a decent career. If he can get motivated to put some effort in he'll play his part for 20 mins against tiring legs, but once his contract has run down that'll be it for him unless he really wants to turn it around.

 

[alcoblade]

Robinson is a decent enough player, but was an awful signing for us. Terrible fit for our system. Lets not rewrite history, he was garbage for us.

Burke is a pretty poor player, and whilst not a great signing gave us something different with the ability to stretch the game with his blistering pace - and to his credit has looked really dangerous in some games.

It's fair to say neither are out and out Centre Forwards and not remotely suited to our 3-5-2. Put either in the right system, most probably wide players in a front 3, and could be good Championship players (and maybe acceptable Premier League players)

Next season I'd be inclined to give Burke a go at RWB against lesser opposition, as could be a huge outlet!

Not only can Burke not finish, but he can't pass / cross, and has no football brain whatsoever. I don't see him being a successful part of any formation at any level above league 2. But I suspect he'll hang around the championship signing for clubs who are initially fooled by his blistering pace, as we've been.

He's an awful footballer, and we've had our pants removed with this signing.

 

[Lane Ender]

Let’s stop fooling ourselves Blades let’s draw a line under the Burke situation he’s L1 standard at best

 

[Fulwood Blade]

We played both of them out of position.

Neither look like an up top player which is where CWAK wanted to play both of them.

Having seen both, Robinson is way better than what we have seen from Burke up to now (have we ever seen him smile?)

Robinson seemed happy at the club, Burke just looks as though he doesn't want to be anywhere - probably because he isn't really succeeding anywhere he goes and just looks as though he's carrying the entire world on his shoulders. He's a player that needs to play wide and use his pace - perhaps the new manager can get something out of the pace he has. If anything he needs to be a creator for others and perhaps an occasional finisher.

If there is one criticism I can give to CWAK and whoever else was involved in these decisions - they've made a real mess of signing players for the top of the pitch, and those we have signed have been asked/told to play in a way that is simply not suitable. The rigid 2 up top and the need to somehow fit McG into the equation has eventually done for us in this league. Does this come back to our rigid formation? - perhaps it does a bit and ultimately I bemoan the lack of planning/moving into the 3412 formation during the first season in the prem. We had lack of goals all the time and moving back to 3412 may have been the solution.

We start again - from a better base than before.

UTB

 

[ancientblade]

callum robinson would be very good wide left in a front 3 and we never played that system but hes streets ahead of burke as a footballer if he stays with us can only see him being on the bench and be an impact sub in the last 20 against tiring defenders but wouldnt suprise me if he is shipped out

 

[ucandomagic]

The problem with this thread is that we’re comparing apples with pears and complaining that neither are peaches.

Robinson has good feet but no
balls, Burke has big balls but poor skills. If you get a highly skilled player who is also very brave you have Aguero, Suarez, Messi...

Wilder dreamed of having skilful players, but could only afford punts on players with other weaknesses. Hogan, Robinson and Brewster are a line of skilled on-the- ball players who are largely ineffectual in a high-press demanding team. They have their moments - Hogan goal v Ipswich, Robinson assist v Man U, Brewster (some time in the future!) - but we are not a team that can afford passengers.

Burke is quite the opposite - he closes down like a train, but is not going to produce those magical moments of footwork.

The secret sauce, when you have limited funds, is building a team where individual weaknesses can be balanced within team selection and the systems used. This is the whole principle behind the Moneyball approach.

The problem is also that you have to change things at different levels. Norwood was incredibly effective at Championship level, but lack of pace and time on the ball created a permanent liability at the level above. Going to a flat 3 helped him for a while, but eventually that didn’t cope either.

All of this makes you realise how rare it is to get a manager, a team and a system to survive at Prem level. Even if you build and play simply to survive, after a couple of years surviving fans demand “better” football, the house of cards falls down and the manager is chucked out back onto the manager-go-round!

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Looking at what both players have done since their moves.

Robinson landed on his feet and played and scored some good goals for WBA.

Burke,i think he left his brain in Leipzig,consequently neither of his feet know what the other one is doing at critical times in his play.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The true test for Burke will be the next time we play Chesterfield in a pre-season friendly. Robinson was shit hot against Chesterfield so in order to make the comparison Burke needs a chance against the same opposition.

 

[LondonBlade89]

Robinson was played by West Brom in his favourite position, ie. as a wide man in a front three. In that position, he's able to receive the ball wide, facing goal, and run at defenders. There he could use his good technique and skill to either create chances or get shots away. Wilder and Knill took a flyer on his ability to become a front man, a la Thierry Henry or maybe a more recent example being Ollie Watkins. But the truth is that Robinson isn't fast enough to get in behind defenders and he's not strong enough to receive it with his back to goal. Decent finishing ability but, oh yes, we don't really create chances. He was never going to be good for us in that position with the way we play. Might have played better if we had a number 10.

Oliver Burke is only a footballer because of his physical prowess. He was worth a punt in the part-exchange for Robinson but it hasn't worked out. He's under contract for another two years so we might as well continue using him as an option off the bench. He's probably at his best as a wide man who can hopefully make some goal contributions and be an impact player off the bench. I can't see anyone paying money for him this Summer.

I'd probably rather have Robinson over Burke but I think both have shown over the past season that neither are particularly comfortable at Premier League level.

 

[TopBoy]

View attachment 112823

Having watched Burke this season and now having seen this photo I can only surmise that his legs have gone.

 

[ancientblade]

robinson would be ideal in jokanovic's preferred system 433 for me burkes just a winger ideally in a 442 set up

 

[alcoblade]

The problem with this thread is that we’re comparing apples with pears and complaining that neither are peaches.

Robinson has good feet but no
balls, Burke has big balls but poor skills. If you get a highly skilled player who is also very brave you have Aguero, Suarez, Messi...

Wilder dreamed of having skilful players, but could only afford punts on players with other weaknesses. Hogan, Robinson and Brewster are a line of skilled on-the- ball players who are largely ineffectual in a high-press demanding team. They have their moments - Hogan goal v Ipswich, Robinson assist v Man U, Brewster (some time in the future!) - but we are not a team that can afford passengers.

Burke is quite the opposite - he closes down like a train, but is not going to produce those magical moments of footwork.

The secret sauce, when you have limited funds, is building a team where individual weaknesses can be balanced within team selection and the systems used. This is the whole principle behind the Moneyball approach.

The problem is also that you have to change things at different levels. Norwood was incredibly effective at Championship level, but lack of pace and time on the ball created a permanent liability at the level above. Going to a flat 3 helped him for a while, but eventually that didn’t cope either.

All of this makes you realise how rare it is to get a manager, a team and a system to survive at Prem level. Even if you build and play simply to survive, after a couple of years surviving fans demand “better” football, the house of cards falls down and the manager is chucked out back onto the manager-go-round!

I think you’re suggesting if you can’t afford the likes of Aguero, you have to take the best bits of players like Burke and blend them into your team.

This is all fine, provided there are some “best bits”. When your only single attribute is pace, you could probably find players in pub teams that match Burke.

He’s shite, and no amount of blending is going to rectify that.

 

[nicksufc]

Burke offered far more than Robinson IMO. How many good games did Robinson have for us? 1? 2? He was mostly a total passenger.

 

[Withington Blade]

cant see a role for burke unless we start playing with wingers think he may be moved on by the new manager

We’d have been as well signing Usain Bolt when he was trying to make his move into professional football a couple of years ago! At least we would have made a bit of dosh through sponsorship!!

 

[PokerBlade]

Weird deal at the time, still weird. Two teams with strikers that aren't good enough have both ended up with strikers that aren't good enough. Robinson's done better this season, but he's been the focal point of the attack and we haven't bothered attacking. Ironically, Allardyce probably would've got the best out of Burke (even if that's not a lot).

 

[Bladeloyal]

Robinson is a better footballer then Burke.

Burke is a better 500m sprinter then Robinson.

In spite of his flaws, i'd have preferred Robinson.

That's a fair owd sprint 500 m

 

[Bladey_blade]

Burke offered far more than Robinson IMO. How many good games did Robinson have for us? 1? 2? He was mostly a total passenger.

One thing about Robinson I hated was the fake closing down, never actually pressed anyone just went through the motions and hid behind the centre halves when we had to ball being very predictable, extremely poor signing for our system. Of all Burkes faults he presses hard and is always available as an outlet, despite his lack of "finesse". He also has to be defended like he will punish them every attack just in case it actually clicks, which stretches the opponent just by being there.
All being said both are wide players playing out of position, Robinson more of an inside forward and Burke more of a chalk on your boots winger, just poor due diligence from all involved, cant blame the players.

 

[Bladesince59]

Nothing to choose. They both offer that.

 

[Tarqs]

Burke offered far more than Robinson IMO. How many good games did Robinson have for us? 1? 2? He was mostly a total passenger.

And...he played for us during our best spell in the Prem.

 

[TJ blade]

robinson would be ideal in jokanovic's preferred system 433 for me burkes just a winger ideally in a 442 set up

Robinson's a footballer... End of.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

That's a fair owd sprint 500

My morning ritual, I have to avoid roads with speed cameras.

 

[robbiez666]

Neither Burke nor Robinson should have been signed because neither is a striker and neither fits into the way we play whatsoever.

Having said that, Robinson at least looks like he can play as a wide forward. He's too flimsy and lightweight for the central role, aside from a few great performances (for us and WBA). He's a pretty decent counter attacking option, makes good runs and is prepared, when confident, to be direct and also have a go.

Burke looks like a player who has never been coached in the striker role. Pretty sure in his first vid for us he said he was a winger and then when prompted said he could also play as a forward. The key here is forward as he might be able to play as a wide forward (indeed, his best work for us is when he's charging toward the by-line and pulling the ball back) but never as a central forward. He's awful in the air and most of the time make the minimum acceptable effort. He's poor at close control so can't hold the ball up and doesn't make run or at least not regularly or into the right place. You would have thought someone would have worked with him on that over the last year. Even if it's just, when we get the ball run to the right wing!

Burke will be largely useless next year unless we use him against the few teams who are insistent in playing out from the back. Teams will sit back against us (probably allow us to get corners so they can break and score) so his pace will be of limited benefit.

Robinson was a baffling signing but Burke was even more baffling. Like you buy a betamax tape for your VHS player, realise it doesn't work and replace it with a lazerdisc

 

[Champagneblade]

The problem with this thread is that we’re comparing apples with pears and complaining that neither are peaches.

Robinson has good feet but no
balls, Burke has big balls but poor skills. If you get a highly skilled player who is also very brave you have Aguero, Suarez, Messi...

Wilder dreamed of having skilful players, but could only afford punts on players with other weaknesses. Hogan, Robinson and Brewster are a line of skilled on-the- ball players who are largely ineffectual in a high-press demanding team. They have their moments - Hogan goal v Ipswich, Robinson assist v Man U, Brewster (some time in the future!) - but we are not a team that can afford passengers.

Burke is quite the opposite - he closes down like a train, but is not going to produce those magical moments of footwork.

The secret sauce, when you have limited funds, is building a team where individual weaknesses can be balanced within team selection and the systems used. This is the whole principle behind the Moneyball approach.

The problem is also that you have to change things at different levels. Norwood was incredibly effective at Championship level, but lack of pace and time on the ball created a permanent liability at the level above. Going to a flat 3 helped him for a while, but eventually that didn’t cope either.

All of this makes you realise how rare it is to get a manager, a team and a system to survive at Prem level. Even if you build and play simply to survive, after a couple of years surviving fans demand “better” football, the house of cards falls down and the manager is chucked out back onto the manager-go-round!

You judge what you have seen and both come up short.

If Wilder wanter better, more proven quality then he should have compromised on the numbers.

No Lowe, no Brewster, then suddenly you are no longer having a punt on a 5m gamble as part exchange for a 7m or 8m sale.

But it's unfair on the lad to ask him to join at the highest level and simultaneously convert himself successfully to the most important role in the pitch at the highest level.

How many times has he played on the wing in a 4-4-2? On the right in a 4-2-3-1? on the right of a 4-3-3?

We don't see him having much of a football brain. But he can possibly provide what Devlin did. Use his pace out wide and out it into the mixer for someone like a Sharp, who only needs a half chance to make something.