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Doing a 1+1=3 bit of maths, if the budget is £20m that is quite a few free transfer & loan players on £30k+ a week. Is that horrendous?

We are in the Prem League for a second time under the Prince and STILL he gets hammered.

Guess we just got lucky twice and the reason we are in so much debt is not because he stretched the "sustainable club model" that him and Wilder spoke about to get promotion again, but because he is stealing cash from the club :rolleyes:
 

LurkerBlade said:
Doing a 1+1=3 bit of maths, if the budget is £20m that is quite a few free transfer & loan players on £30k+ a week. Is that horrendous?
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If that's all we can afford, that's horrendous mismanagement in the past on near-Pork levels
 
brownblade said:
An angry birdy tells me the budget is zero.

So prepare yourself for ALL our players being released this summer - playing next season with a bunch of volunteers playing for free. We might go down.
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It was £20m but then someone at the club realized we owed Dozy at least £27m and the shit hit the fan in Geneva.
 
brownblade said:
An angry birdy tells me the budget is zero.

So prepare yourself for ALL our players being released this summer - playing next season with a bunch of volunteers playing for free. We might go down.
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I’m training right now, I will be there to save us, just think of someone with the physique of Jan molby and the technique of vinnie Jones/ Charlie Hartfield
 
brownblade said:
Ok well it has been a dream, so I'll join you.

I've got the fitness of Mousset, the pace of the Prince and the finishing of Coulibaly's left boot.
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Will you be ordering KFC after games then for changing room?? If so I like the mighty buckets
 
brownblade said:
An angry birdy tells me the budget is zero.

So prepare yourself for ALL our players being released this summer - playing next season with a bunch of volunteers playing for free. We might go down.
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Im afraid its worse than that, the volunteers have to pay subs to play and sell scratch cards, only what ive been told by someone high up
 
brownblade said:
An angry birdy tells me the budget is zero.

So prepare yourself for ALL our players being released this summer - playing next season with a bunch of volunteers playing for free. We might go down.
Click to expand...
If it ends up being nothing then the prince is deffo either financially inept or something isn't right.

I can buy £20-30m budget and the reasons behind it. HOWEVER still find it hard to understand given our spend last time we went up.
I understand that the increase in income is greater when you go from a championship club with no parachute payments compared to one that does and gets promoted.
I also understand the increases in wages (Bonus', automatic increase due to promotion etc) But was there no thought process after this.

My guess is one of the reasons the budget is potentially so low-zero is that the Prince when deciding to buy the club off McCabe didn't factor in that he would need to buy the ground, academy and assets. Prince instead of buying them outright made the club buy them with mortgages. On the one hand this is good as technically it belongs to the club (bank) just as it does with our mortgages.
But the flipside is that the outgoings from the club is greater than other PL or Champ clubs that just own their ground with no mortgage payments etc.
 
CPB said:
If it ends up being nothing then the prince is deffo either financially inept or something isn't right.

I can buy £20-30m budget and the reasons behind it. HOWEVER still find it hard to understand given our spend last time we went up.
I understand that the increase in income is greater when you go from a championship club with no parachute payments compared to one that does and gets promoted.
I also understand the increases in wages (Bonus', automatic increase due to promotion etc) But was there no thought process after this.

My guess is one of the reasons the budget is potentially so low-zero is that the Prince when deciding to buy the club off McCabe didn't factor in that he would need to buy the ground, academy and assets. Prince instead of buying them outright made the club buy them with mortgages. On the one hand this is good as technically it belongs to the club (bank) just as it does with our mortgages.
But the flipside is that the outgoings from the club is greater than other PL or Champ clubs that just own their ground with no mortgage payments etc.
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Yep on a serious note, I think the Prince is just running things as best he can but has nothing to supplement budgets from his own pockets. That's why he's trying to sell, as he can't give us the cash what we need.
 
I just hope we don't give another contract to Fleck and Stevens and waste what little wages we have on two busted flushes. They've both been abysmal since the restart and have given us nothing for the last three and a half seasons other than a handful of good performances. As good as they've been in the past it's time to move on, look forward and don't waste wages on sentimentality. Same goes for Basham and Billy. They've both been excellent servants but there is no point retaining them for the Premier League when they were both clearly past their best and struggling last season in the Championship. Osborn is another who can go. We need good starters, not squad players. We need players better than what we have who can force some of our current players to the bench. I fear that we could waste a lot of wages retaining some of our bang average or below par wages. I guess time will tell when the list is retained, or if poor managent is involved where players automatically get an extension who we don't want to stay due to clauses in their contracts. Let's wait and see.
 
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CPB said:
If it ends up being nothing then the prince is deffo either financially inept or something isn't right.

I can buy £20-30m budget and the reasons behind it. HOWEVER still find it hard to understand given our spend last time we went up.
I understand that the increase in income is greater when you go from a championship club with no parachute payments compared to one that does and gets promoted.
I also understand the increases in wages (Bonus', automatic increase due to promotion etc) But was there no thought process after this.

My guess is one of the reasons the budget is potentially so low-zero is that the Prince when deciding to buy the club off McCabe didn't factor in that he would need to buy the ground, academy and assets. Prince instead of buying them outright made the club buy them with mortgages. On the one hand this is good as technically it belongs to the club (bank) just as it does with our mortgages.
But the flipside is that the outgoings from the club is greater than other PL or Champ clubs that just own their ground with no mortgage payments etc.
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If the ground etc hadn’t been partly purchased with a mortgage the cash situation would be £30m worse.
There’s a lack of understanding between profits and cash flow and the way player transfers are dealt with. Without a basic understanding it’s easy to believe tranches of cash aren’t being accounted for, but that’s not the case. Those with an agenda put it down to HRH raiding petty cash or tens of millions going to United World. There’s a handful on here who parrot that who despite their misplaced confidence in their financial know how not only spout bollocks but are strangely reluctant to debate the points they make.
 
sonofbruce said:
I just hope we don't give another contract to Fleck and Stevens and waste what little wages we have on two busted flushes. They've both been abysmal since the restart and have given us nothing for the last three and a half seasons other than a handful of good performances. As good as they've been in the past it's time to move on, look forward and don't waste wages on sentimentality. Same goes for Basham and Billy. They've both been excellent servants but there is no point retaining them for the Premier League when they were both clearly past their best and struggling last season in the Championship. Osborn is another who can go. We need good starters, not squad players. We need players better than what we have who can force some of our current players to the bench. I fear that we could waste a lot of wages retaining some of our bang average or below par wages. I guess time will tell when the list is retained, or if poor managent is involved where players automatically get an extension who we don't want to stay due to clauses in their contracts. Let's wait and see.
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Don’t disagree entirely

But it’s not right to say we don’t need squad players

Osborn might not be brilliant (or PL standard) but he’s the equivalent of cover in about 5 different positions (DM,CM,LB,LWB, RB he’s even played off the striker). You let him go and suddenly we need another 3 squad players to provide that cover.

It’s a very efficient use of resource to have someone that versatile around.

Again I know fleck has been in and out of form but the saving of releasing him are minimal when we will just need to replace his place in the squad. Even if it’s not a starter we are signing there will likely be a acquisition cost. Bash has certainly never let us down and was one of the few who emerged with any credit from the last time out in the PL.

If we’ve only 20m to spend. Imo We need to focus on signing a couple first teamers, and supplement the first 11 with 3/4 loans (domestic and foreign). That will push some of the players from the first 11 to the bench and strengthen the squad. I don’t seen the point in signing marginal upgrades to essentially fill a squad role.
 
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According to BBC, 15/24 Championship clubs have released retained list.
N.B. Playoff teams had an extension to decide and those 4 aren't released.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Osborn might not be brilliant (or PL standard) but he’s the equivalent of cover in about 5 different positions (DM,CM,LB,LWB, RB he’s even played off the striker). You let him go and suddenly we need another 3 squad players to provide that cover.
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Exactly. Nobody really questions Liverpool having James Milner in their squad despite the fact that if he started for them it'd probably be a problem
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Don’t disagree entirely

But it’s not right to say we don’t need squad players

Osborn might not be brilliant (or PL standard) but he’s the equivalent of cover in about 5 different positions (DM,CM,LB,LWB, RB he’s even played off the striker). You let him go and suddenly we need another 3 squad players to provide that cover.

It’s a very efficient use of resource to have someone that versatile around.

Again I know fleck has been in and out of form but the saving of releasing him are minimal when we will just need to replace his place in the squad. Even if it’s not a starter we are signing there will likely be a acquisition cost. Bash has certainly never let us down and was one of the few who emerged with any credit from the last time out in the PL.

If we’ve only 20m to spend. Imo We need to focus on signing a couple first teamers, and supplement the first 11 with 3/4 loans (domestic and foreign). That will push some of the players from the first 11 to the bench and strengthen the squad. I don’t seen the point in signing marginal upgrades to essentially fill a squad role.
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Whilst l understand the point you are making, can you confirm the Ben Osborn you’ve described is the one we have at the moment? :)
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Don’t disagree entirely

But it’s not right to say we don’t need squad players

Osborn might not be brilliant (or PL standard) but he’s the equivalent of cover in about 5 different positions (DM,CM,LB,LWB, RB he’s even played off the striker). You let him go and suddenly we need another 3 squad players to provide that cover.

It’s a very efficient use of resource to have someone that versatile around.
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This argument only works if Osborn is fit. He's managed only 20 games this season. He's had 2 spells where he's been out for almost 2 months, and one spell where he was out for a month.

I'd prefer someone versatile who has a better injury record.

the same argument can be made regarding Fleck and Stevens.
 
Weasel said:
Unless they have been outstanding for us in the recent past, any player who is now out of contract and has missed quite a few games last season due to injury problems should now be released. Common sense.
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Agreed. Same as any new signings. A player on a downward trajectory through age/form is not the answer when stepping up to the PL!
 
Weasel said:
Unless they have been outstanding for us in the recent past, any player who is now out of contract and has missed quite a few games last season due to injury problems should now be released. Common sense.
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Again, I dont disagree in principle

But say we look at young players to replace Osborn / bash / sharp / fleck / Stevens in the squad.

What’s the going rate for a young league 1 / championship player on an upward trajectory. (3/4m minimum!?) You’re suddenly up to having spend 15m ( of a 20m budget) without any improvement of key first team players. And They are all going to want similar PL wages.

It’s a false economy imo and one that substantially limits our ability to improve the first 11. The alternative is keep them another year and focus on 1/2 who might upgrade areas of real weakness in the first 11. I.e an new left back.

Not saying we need to keep all of them. We might find some free transfers to replace thier impact. But to me I don’t think you can throw them all away without consideration of the impact on the first team squad. And i wouldn’t be surprised if we keep at least a few around.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Again, I dont disagree in principle

But say we look at young players to replace Osborn / bash / sharp / fleck / Stevens in the squad.

What’s the going rate for a young league 1 / championship player on an upward trajectory. (3/4m minimum!?) You’re suddenly up to having spend 15m ( of a 20m budget) without any improvement of key first team players. And They are all going to want similar PL wages.

It’s a false economy imo and one that substantially limits our ability to improve the first 11. The alternative is keep them another year and focus on 1/2 who might upgrade areas of real weakness in the first 11. I.e an new left back.

Not saying we need to keep all of them. We might find some free transfers to replace thier impact. But to me I don’t think you can throw them all away without consideration of the impact on the first team squad. And i wouldn’t be surprised if we keep at least a few around.
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I think we are relatively speaking on the same page.

The ones out of contact who have had injury problems last season and didn't really contribute that much, then that would be Fleck, Stevens, Osborn, O'Connell. They should all be released. To give injury prone players a new deal would be illogical and basically a bit daft by SUFC.

That leaves Robinson, Sharp, Norwood (possibly a few others?). They have mainly been available throughout the season or played a larger part in the promotion. I wouldn't be against these getting a new deal (I'm assuming McBurnie will be offered a deal anyway). So I'm not advocating a complete cull, it more of a case of using this as an opportunity to release the ones that have had injury issues and are in all probability not the same players as they once were for us. Freshen up the squad with some younger players who don't cost the earth and can be coached to eventually be first team regulars and will be ok as cover players next season. We should be able to bring in a few without each of them costing 4-5 million quid.
 
Weren't Blackburn rumoured to want Norwood for £2m, tha5 would be a good deal, snap their hands off. JOC needs to go, must be on a fortune.
The older players couldn't save us 3 years ago, so replace them with loan signings with an opton maybe
 
Pintor75 said:
Weren't Blackburn rumoured to want Norwood for £2m, tha5 would be a good deal, snap their hands off
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Our central midfield currently looks like Berge, Norwood and untested (through no fault of their own) kids. You want to sell Norwood for two million? What's your plan to replace him?
 
Pintor75 said:
Weren't Blackburn rumoured to want Norwood for £2m, tha5 would be a good deal, snap their hands off. JOC needs to go, must be on a fortune.
The older players couldn't save us 3 years ago, so replace them with loan signings with an opton maybe
Click to expand...

That would be a terrible deal.

Norwood was in the top couple of midfielders in the championship for 3/4 of last season. And has been one of our best players since he arrived

He ran into a bad bit of form (which happens to him occasionally) and was replaced by a player in good form - who’s not even ours. And would cost at least 4/5 times that to bring in.

Who couple we possibly buy for 2 million that’s even half the player of Norwood?

We aren’t going to get through the season with 11 first team players. We are going to need a squad.
 
brownblade said:
An angry birdy tells me the budget is zero.

So prepare yourself for ALL our players being released this summer - playing next season with a bunch of volunteers playing for free. We might go down.
Click to expand...
Depends how good the volunteers are.
 

Pintor75 said:
Weren't Blackburn rumoured to want Norwood for £2m, tha5 would be a good deal, snap their hands off. JOC needs to go, must be on a fortune.
The older players couldn't save us 3 years ago, so replace them with loan signings with an opton maybe
Click to expand...

We can’t get a fee for Norwood. He’s out of contract and if we do not re-sign him he can walk for nothing.
 
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