Recruitment has killed us

[Nah den]

An interesting article on BBC Sport today about the Sporting Director at Sevilla and their approach to recruitment. I suspect our approach is light years behind. I'll see if I can attach a link...not sure if the below works?

bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55146257

 

[Woodyblade70]

In Wilder's defence, the players that have got us to the Premier League are mostly late twenties and thirties, so he's got to look at the future as those players aren't going to be able maintain the levels required. He's following a similar strategy to Sir Alex who recycled his team every 4 years. We probably won't see the best of Ramsdale, Bogle, Brewster and Berge for another year or so, however Wilder needed to bring in 1 or 2 established Premier League players to improve the starting 11
to help retain our status in the division. He either failed to do this or was restricted by the wage structure in place. I'm thinking of players like Callum Wilson and Ross Barkley who wouldn't have bankrupt us fee wise (£20m and Loan fee), but obviously wages would be higher than we are prepared to pay.

 

[247Blade]

Always have to consider which players wouldn't fancy joining the club?

 

[Woodyblade70]

Whilst I agree with you regardingWhilst I agree with your point regarding not seeing the best of Brewster etc until the future, to compare us to Man United is wide of the mark because if any of those players fulfil their potential in anyway, they won't be here (especially Brewster). whereas at Man United, in this country, clubs don't get any bigger, so won't be Cherry picked.

 

[blades78]

Whilst I agree with you regarding
Whilst I agree with your point regarding not seeing the best of Brewster etc until the future, to compare us to Man United is wide of the mark because if any of those players fulfil their potential in anyway, they won't be here (especially Brewster). whereas at Man United, in this country, clubs don't get any bigger, so won't be Cherry picked.

The point I was trying to make is that teams have a certain shelf life and have to be revamped etc. Doesn't always work out even for Man Utd with young players like Kleberson, Bebe, Forlan etc brought in to replace the successful late 90's Man Utd side.

 

[Charlieblade]

Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing? A fan can put forward any suggestion, or solution to our current woes, but it is all based on reaction to our present predicament.
This time last year, the debate was around the academy, training facilities and ground improvements. Now we decide to focus on recruitment, or changes to the system we play.
One thing I will guarantee is that Wilder has a plan. It might not include a season without Jack O’Connell, or injury prone strikers, or losing a midfield lynch pin at short notice. He cannot factor in, key players suddenly losing form, or one off weird stuff like COVID-19, but all those factors can derail the best laid plans.
Considering how little we as supporters can possibly be certain of, I am content to support the man who is clearly forward thinking over an infinite number of possible scenarios. A man who has put his stamp on his club, and brought us undreamed of success.
Now is not the time to falter in our belief and support for the man who got us to where we are.
Knee jerk reactions to every match we lose, might assuage a fans anger, but you either support the club and the manager, or you don’t. Up to you.
Rant over.

 

[kevreedy]

Everyone knows we need a centre back and a striker. I would imagine we can,t afford to pay £20m plus for either position. so it will loans maybe.
Plenty of very good players in the premier league that can.t get into the starting eleven.Stones at man city Lindelof at man utd for example. will be expensive even to loan. but if it keeps us in the premier league money well spent.

 

[blades14]

Everyone knows we need a centre back and a striker. I would imagine we can,t afford to pay £20m plus for either position. so it will loans maybe.
Plenty of very good players in the premier league that can.t get into the starting eleven.Stones at man city Lindelof at man utd for example. will be expensive even to loan. but if it keeps us in the premier league money well spent.

even someone like dan burn i would have taken if im honest

 

[blades14]

I think we will get Ben Davies in january i just hope were not as good as relegated by then

 

[ancientblade]

I think we will get Ben Davies in january i just hope were not as good as relegated by then

i think any signings in january depends on where we are points wise if were well adrift i doubt there will be any maybe a couple of departures but if we do go down it will be an interesting summer window to see who goes and who comes in but were certain to have a very very good squad that ought to give us an excellent chance of getting back up at the first time of asking utb fto

 

[Nick Jansky]

Tax dear boy.

And at what these guys earn, we aren’t talking basic rate !

Often quoted net figures. As was the case with McB.

It’s mostly all quoted as “netto”. Blame Ruud Gullit for that .

This is how I have led to believe it is.

It might be bollocks, but there you go !!

UTB

You are actually correct (first time for everything! ) but not for the reason you think. Its not to do with wages being quoted "netto".

Its because basic wages bear no resemblance to actual wages because of the multiple extras built in to every contract. So it is very believable that basic wages are in the region of £20-25k per week, but actual wages are around what you quoted. That's how it works.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

I think we will get Ben Davies in january i just hope were not as good as relegated by then

Not sure why Wilder signing another championship player will make a difference

 

[JPBrods]

Apologies for the blog post but here goes. My rating out of ten for every Wilder since summer 2019 (several factors at play here - price, performance, what they were brought in to do etc rather than just how good they are at football) and the overall average.

Luke Freeman - 4/10
Phil Jagielka - 4/10
Callum Robinson - 4/10
Ravel Morrison - 2/10
Lys Mousset - 7/10
Ben Osborn - 6/10
Oli McBurnie - 5/10
Michael Verrips - N/A
Jack Rodwell - N/A
Jack Robinson - 5/10
Sander Berge - 6/10
Dean Henderson - 10/10
Muhamed Besic - 6/10
Richaro Zivkovic - 3/10
Panos Retsos - N/A

Aaron Ramsdale - 6/10
Wes Foderingham - N/A
Max Lowe - 3/10
Jayden Bogle - dead/10
Oli Burke - 6/10
Rhian Brewster - 4/10 (this one will improve...)
Ethan Ampadu - 5/10

Average is 5.05/10 out of players I have allocated a score - BUT you have to remember those are first team players I could actually attribute a score to, and Henderson does some big pulling with my 10/10. Five players getting N/As.

I think I may have been generous compared with what some others would think, but if you'd told me that Wilder with a bigger chequebook results in 5/10 on the recruitment front across three transfer windows and one of our best bits of business was a striker we can't seem to get into shape but 'only' paid £10m for I'd be very concerned that we'd spunked moneh.

 

[blades14]

Not sure why Wilder signing another championship player will make a difference

Any better suggestions of a left sided CB who is within budget despite us spending most of it in the summer, would be also be available and willing to move in January?

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Any better suggestions of a left sided CB who is within budget despite us spending most of it in the summer, would be also be available and willing to move in January?

Rojo on loan

 

[Foody]

Apologies for the blog post but here goes. My rating out of ten for every Wilder since summer 2019 (several factors at play here - price, performance, what they were brought in to do etc rather than just how good they are at football) and the overall average.

Luke Freeman - 4/10
Phil Jagielka - 4/10
Callum Robinson - 4/10
Ravel Morrison - 2/10
Lys Mousset - 7/10
Ben Osborn - 6/10
Oli McBurnie - 5/10
Michael Verrips - N/A
Jack Rodwell - N/A
Jack Robinson - 5/10
Sander Berge - 6/10
Dean Henderson - 10/10
Muhamed Besic - 6/10
Richaro Zivkovic - 3/10
Panos Retsos - N/A

Aaron Ramsdale - 6/10
Wes Foderingham - N/A
Max Lowe - 3/10
Jayden Bogle - dead/10
Oli Burke - 6/10
Rhian Brewster - 4/10 (this one will improve...)
Ethan Ampadu - 5/10

Average is 5.05/10 out of players I have allocated a score - BUT you have to remember those are first team players I could actually attribute a score to, and Henderson does some big pulling with my 10/10. Five players getting N/As.

I think I may have been generous compared with what some others would think, but if you'd told me that Wilder with a bigger chequebook results in 5/10 on the recruitment front across three transfer windows and one of our best bits of business was a striker we can't seem to get into shape but 'only' paid £10m for I'd be very concerned that we'd spunked moneh.

What I would say though is there are a few in there that still represent value. Someone like Berge for example is a player who I'm sure we could already turn a profit on. The likes of Ampadu and Brewster are still way too early to judge, both require time to settle in. Max Lowe hadn't looked upto standard, but he's young enough to still develop.

I'd also argue that Jagielka is potentially better business than is suggested. Brought in for free as cover, brings in valuable experience at the level too.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

What I would say though is there are a few in there that still represent value. Someone like Berge for example is a player who I'm sure we could already turn a profit on. The likes of Ampadu and Brewster are still way too early to judge, both require time to settle in. Max Lowe hadn't looked upto standard, but he's young enough to still develop.

I'd also argue that Jagielka is potentially better business than is suggested. Brought in for free as cover, brings in valuable experience at the level too.

Ampadu is not our player so doesn't come into the value for money section.

 

[Foody]

Ampadu is not our player so doesn't come into the value for money section.

I'd say if a loan player can play a significant part in a season and therefore contribute to points they represent good value. I have no idea how much we paid Henderson last season, but I can pretty much guarantee it represented excellent value for the club.
They may not have resale value, but they can still make excellent business sense. Hence why I'm surprised we haven't utilised our loan spots.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Apologies for the blog post but here goes. My rating out of ten for every Wilder since summer 2019 (several factors at play here - price, performance, what they were brought in to do etc rather than just how good they are at football) and the overall average.

Luke Freeman - 4/10
Phil Jagielka - 4/10
Callum Robinson - 4/10
Ravel Morrison - 2/10
Lys Mousset - 7/10
Ben Osborn - 6/10
Oli McBurnie - 5/10
Michael Verrips - N/A
Jack Rodwell - N/A
Jack Robinson - 5/10
Sander Berge - 6/10
Dean Henderson - 10/10
Muhamed Besic - 6/10
Richaro Zivkovic - 3/10
Panos Retsos - N/A

Aaron Ramsdale - 6/10
Wes Foderingham - N/A
Max Lowe - 3/10
Jayden Bogle - dead/10
Oli Burke - 6/10
Rhian Brewster - 4/10 (this one will improve...)
Ethan Ampadu - 5/10

Average is 5.05/10 out of players I have allocated a score - BUT you have to remember those are first team players I could actually attribute a score to, and Henderson does some big pulling with my 10/10. Five players getting N/As.

I think I may have been generous compared with what some others would think, but if you'd told me that Wilder with a bigger chequebook results in 5/10 on the recruitment front across three transfer windows and one of our best bits of business was a striker we can't seem to get into shape but 'only' paid £10m for I'd be very concerned that we'd spunked moneh.

that’s the problem in a nutshell. The rise has been predicated on the earlier windows and one or two stars each time when you look at the output we got from the past 3 windows with the benefit of hindsight how many of these players would we buy again??

I’d argue we would pass on

Freeman, Jags, Morrison, Robinson (given Bryan is now playing ahead of him) , Rodwell, mcburnie (he’s been ok but given the outlay), retsos, besic (we could have far more from a loan), zivkovic. From last season

Though it’s early for the current signings - and no point Judging them after 10 games - the early returns have clearly been well below average given results.

Ramdsale has been ok, but a downgrade and wasn’t exactly a bargain, Lowe has looked lost, bogel may as well still be in derby, Brewster still waiting to make his impact. Ampadu in and out was supposed to be our ‘star’ loan signing - one we couldn’t afford permanently.

leaves a lot to be desired

 

[blades14]

Rojo on loan

assuming we would pay all of his wages. you really think we could afford that?

 

[Rudders]

Apologies for the blog post but here goes. My rating out of ten for every Wilder since summer 2019 (several factors at play here - price, performance, what they were brought in to do etc rather than just how good they are at football) and the overall average.

Luke Freeman - 4/10
Phil Jagielka - 4/10
Callum Robinson - 4/10
Ravel Morrison - 2/10
Lys Mousset - 7/10
Ben Osborn - 6/10
Oli McBurnie - 5/10
Michael Verrips - N/A
Jack Rodwell - N/A
Jack Robinson - 5/10
Sander Berge - 6/10
Dean Henderson - 10/10
Muhamed Besic - 6/10
Richaro Zivkovic - 3/10
Panos Retsos - N/A

Aaron Ramsdale - 6/10
Wes Foderingham - N/A
Max Lowe - 3/10
Jayden Bogle - dead/10
Oli Burke - 6/10
Rhian Brewster - 4/10 (this one will improve...)
Ethan Ampadu - 5/10

Average is 5.05/10 out of players I have allocated a score - BUT you have to remember those are first team players I could actually attribute a score to, and Henderson does some big pulling with my 10/10. Five players getting N/As.

I think I may have been generous compared with what some others would think, but if you'd told me that Wilder with a bigger chequebook results in 5/10 on the recruitment front across three transfer windows and one of our best bits of business was a striker we can't seem to get into shape but 'only' paid £10m for I'd be very concerned that we'd spunked moneh.

You should put the individual and total transfer values on there. You then need to work out what the average transfer value is. I think there are around 20 players on the list. Wilder has probably spent about £100M out on that lot. That is about £5M per player and Wilder is averaging 5.05/10. That would be about right. You are not going to get a good Premier League player for £5M. Expecting bargain bucket signings like Osborn and Robbo to perform at 7/10 or 8/10 in the Premier is cloud cuckoo land. Dean henderson was an anomaly that such a good player was let out on loan. Decent players in the premier league who are regular 7 or 8 out of 10 are going to cost you £80M and are probably not going to be let out on load.

If Wilder's average transfer value was £50M and they were still averaging 5/10 then you would have a problem.

We haven't spunked 'moneh in premier league terms. You can't buy Brian Deane for £3M anymore, that was twenty five years ago. Prices have shot up. United supporters dont realisse this because McCabe never spent out. Yes we have spent more than what a League 1 club would but then we are in the Premier League and trying hard to compete. People want us to be in the top ten int he table but Villa won't be anywhere near that and yet they will have spent nigh on half a billion on transfers I reckon

 

[Bladeinleeds]

You should put the individual and total transfer values on there. You then need to work out what the average transfer value is. I think there are around 20 players on the list. Wilder has probably spent about £100M out on that lot. That is about £5M per player and Wilder is averaging 5.05/10. That would be about right. You are not going to get a good Premier League player for £5M. Expecting bargain bucket signings like Osborn and Robbo to perform at 7/10 or 8/10 in the Premier is cloud cuckoo land. Dean henderson was an anomaly that such a good player was let out on loan. Decent players in the premier league who are regular 7 or 8 out of 10 are going to cost you £80M and are probably not going to be let out on load.

If Wilder's average transfer value was £50M and they were still averaging 5/10 then you would have a problem.

We haven't spunked 'moneh in premier league terms. You can't buy Brian Deane for £3M anymore, that was twenty five years ago. Prices have shot up. United supporters dont realisse this because McCabe never spent out. Yes we have spent more than what a League 1 club would but then we are in the Premier League and trying hard to compete. People want us to be in the top ten int he table but Villa won't be anywhere near that and yet they will have spent nigh on half a billion on transfers I reckon

I’d disagree with that assessment.

I think the likes of Osborn and Robinson have been fine borderline good for the outlay. And obviously we needed to improve the overall squad quality. and we know from experience the lower value players have been excellent signings. Fleck, enda, Norwood, baldock. Duffy, JOC - cost less than 2 million for the lot. They were outstanding signings all told.

To my mind when give money wilder hasn’t got enough bang for his buck.

Where we need to look at the spending has been the likes of Freeman - 6m, Robinson 7/8m, bogel 7/8m, which have contributed next to nothing for the club.

Then there a question as to the value for money we’ve got with mcburnie, Ramsdale, Brewster and Berge. I know it’s early days on a couple of them. Even berge who I like would we really say he’s more than a 7/10 - that outlay is basically the tv money we received last year - how much better of are we for having spend it?

 

[Holmfirth Blade 1977]

Another on the blocked/ignore list

 

[AdamSufc1997]

assuming we would pay all of his wages. you really think we could afford that?

We can afford the transfer fees for players so why do you think we can't afford him? Not sure why our fans are concerned about the wages but not the transfer fees

 

[blades14]

We can afford the transfer fees for players so why do you think we can't afford him? Not sure why our fans are concerned about the wages but not the transfer fees

The club has already put in a wage structure so players arent paid ridiculous amount of money which is why we didnt sign a.robinson and thats why lunny wants to leave

 

[Working Class Hero]

You should put the individual and total transfer values on there. You then need to work out what the average transfer value is. I think there are around 20 players on the list. Wilder has probably spent about £100M out on that lot. That is about £5M per player and Wilder is averaging 5.05/10. That would be about right. You are not going to get a good Premier League player for £5M. Expecting bargain bucket signings like Osborn and Robbo to perform at 7/10 or 8/10 in the Premier is cloud cuckoo land. Dean henderson was an anomaly that such a good player was let out on loan. Decent players in the premier league who are regular 7 or 8 out of 10 are going to cost you £80M and are probably not going to be let out on load.

If Wilder's average transfer value was £50M and they were still averaging 5/10 then you would have a problem.

We haven't spunked 'moneh in premier league terms. You can't buy Brian Deane for £3M anymore, that was twenty five years ago. Prices have shot up. United supporters dont realisse this because McCabe never spent out. Yes we have spent more than what a League 1 club would but then we are in the Premier League and trying hard to compete. People want us to be in the top ten int he table but Villa won't be anywhere near that and yet they will have spent nigh on half a billion on transfers I reckon

But Henderson was already here, and really the players with no score should be given 0/10 - making the average only 3.6/10.

Also £130m spent on 21 players, is £6m each.

There's no dressing it up, it's been bad. Hopefully a good number of them will turn their own ratings around.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

The club has already put in a wage structure so players arent paid ridiculous amount of money which is why we didnt sign a.robinson and thats why lunny wants to leave

He probably thinks Wilder is a cheapskate which is understandable

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

There are a hell of a lot of ifs maybes and wild assumptions on here and it's not even Christmas yet, There's along way to go yet and maybe we've lost our chance of European football, but not our chance of staying up.
So lets keep the faith for a while longer eh,, you never know what's just around the corner in this game do you.......

 

[ancientblade]

We can afford the transfer fees for players so why do you think we can't afford him? Not sure why our fans are concerned about the wages but not the transfer fees

we pay championship salaries

 

[Jan Age]

His recruitment since getting promoted has been poor. I still don't understand the Ramsdale signing. I'd have gone for Foster from Watford, paid him what he wanted and used the savings from the £18,000,000 to address the JOC replacement.

Brewster might be good, but he's a gamble. At £24m Liverpool must be sniggering behind their hands. For less money I'd have gone for Demarai Gray from Leicester who has the pace we desperately need.

Lowe looks poor, Bogle isn't anywhere near the team, Robinson and Osborn look average, not sure why Rodwell and Jagielka are here if they're nowhere near the team. Robinson has been and gone, to be replaced by Burke who never gets a game. Mousset is almost never match fit (physically or mentally). McBurnie looks a long way from a £18m striker.

The only starters are Ramsdale and Berge. I'm not convinced about Ramsdale, and Berge looks ok, but not stand out.

£130m and the team is largely the same as it was 18 months ago.

Looks really critical when I read it back, but if I was PA I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd want some serious assurances next time CW asked me for money.

This is exactly it.

CW had become too loyal (almost blinded) by the ‘old guard’

I’m all for keeping them in and around the club to keep the ethos and culture but many should have been replaced by now.