Recruitment has killed us

[Bladezz]

The recruitment has killed us.

I said it at the start of the season and got crucified on here. We’ve signed another striker at £24m and already he’s not good enough for a starting place.

The chairman has backed CW but he’s needed help with recruitment choosing the right players and he’s not had it.

 

[blackydog]

Wage structure?

 

[ekke287]

I think we were so focussed on getting a striker we let the left side issue slip through.

We could’ve bought Messi and we’d still be conceding at least one per game.

 

[FredZeppelin]

We've recruited to be competitive and financially safe in the Championship if/when it goes wrong in the Premier League.
Personally, I'm ok with that policy as it safeguards the club over the next few years when there could be a lot of clubs 'hitting the wall'. It should also mean that we would have a major advantage in the Championship next season with the players we have and can keep as their wages won't mean we have to sell at 'fire sale' prices.
If anyone doubts that kind of thinking, then have a look across the city at the state of the pigs, given their overspending.
The downside of that approach is that CW seems to have overestimated the mental strength and ability of one or two players he has signed. Hopefully they can be moved on before the next campaign starts.
UTB

 

[Working Class Hero]

Chris Wilder is a legend already no matter what happens, and we HAVE to keep him even if we go down.

However, his recruitment since we were promoted the the Premier League has been shockingly bad. Wage structure or no wage structure, it's just not acceptable that he's spent circa £130m across three transfer windows, on 17 players, and only upgraded ONE position with a definite starter.

Just picking 17 players off the free agents list probably wouldn't have worked out as bad as that.

 

[Nah den]

We've recruited to be competitive and financially safe in the Championship if/when it goes wrong in the Premier League.
Personally, I'm ok with that policy as it safeguards the club over the next few years when there could be a lot of clubs 'hitting the wall'. It should also mean that we would have a major advantage in the Championship next season with the players we have and can keep as their wages won't mean we have to sell at 'fire sale' prices.
If anyone doubts that kind of thinking, then have a look across the city at the state of the pigs, given their overspending.
The downside of that approach is that CW seems to have overestimated the mental strength and ability of one or two players he has signed. Hopefully they can be moved on before the next campaign starts.
UTB

I don't disagree, but the sole issue then becomes attracting a new owner or investment. If we are only ever going to recruit at that level we're only ever going to be at that level, which is frustrating given the opportunity we gave ourselves after last season to try to cement our place in the PL. Not blaming the Prince btw, if he doesn't have the cash he doesn't have it, but he should be doing everything he can to find someone that does. Without it we can't expect to sign the players that can consistently compete at this level.

I thought our main summer objective was getting more pace, power, athleticism into the team. I don't remember a time I've seen us look less mobile or powerful. Only Baldock can be considered quick, and moose when fit. The rest are pretty slow. But pace and power cost money.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

His recruitment since getting promoted has been poor. I still don't understand the Ramsdale signing. I'd have gone for Foster from Watford, paid him what he wanted and used the savings from the £18,000,000 to address the JOC replacement.

Brewster might be good, but he's a gamble. At £24m Liverpool must be sniggering behind their hands. For less money I'd have gone for Demarai Gray from Leicester who has the pace we desperately need.

Lowe looks poor, Bogle isn't anywhere near the team, Robinson and Osborn look average, not sure why Rodwell and Jagielka are here if they're nowhere near the team. Robinson has been and gone, to be replaced by Burke who never gets a game. Mousset is almost never match fit (physically or mentally). McBurnie looks a long way from a £18m striker.

The only starters are Ramsdale and Berge. I'm not convinced about Ramsdale, and Berge looks ok, but not stand out.

£130m and the team is largely the same as it was 18 months ago.

Looks really critical when I read it back, but if I was PA I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd want some serious assurances next time CW asked me for money.

 

[Badger Blade]

Between League One and the Championship, we did a good job of succession planning and being ruthless with players who we knew wouldn't cut it so the likes of Done, Lafferty, O'Shea, EEL + others all not being retained, Moore being demoted to second choice, Kieron Freeman pushed to the bench etc. I'm sure there are others that don't spring immediately to mind but its the sort of thing that needed to happen again with players who took us up but realistically aren't really good enough to hack it long term at the top level.

I get there's the point that they earned the right to test themselves in the Premier League having got us there but the cracks are well and truly showing now where players in the Championship promotion team should in an ideal world be losing their places to better recruits and being bumped to the bench and the previous bench players being led out the door. What we've done instead is sign squad fillers and players of a similar standard to what we already have so it basically makes no difference who plays any more.

If we managed to pluck Berge out the Belgian league, there must be others out there because signing Championship players and average ones at that only sends you back to the Championship.

Wilder is like the girl who keeps going out with bad lads in the hope that they'll change but keeps getting stung over and over again, many of our signings are much the same, wasting our time, money and squad places in the hope that one of them comes good. Best signing we made is warming Man United's bench.

 

[petcharlie]

The recruitment has killed us.

I said it at the start of the season and got crucified on here. We’ve signed another striker at £24m and already he’s not good enough for a starting place.

The chairman has backed CW but he’s needed help with recruitment choosing the right players and he’s not had it.

Wilder could not get his targets due to our wage structure (Watkins,Cash,and another who's name i forgot)and had to make do with what we could get.

 

[knowsnowt]

I believe its called "cutting your cloth accordingly".

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

I like how our players keep getting more and more expensive every time somebody wants to complain about our recruitment. Brewster is now up to 24 million. Bogle was 10 million yesterday. I saw somebody talking about how McBurnie was a waste of "20 odd million" recently.

Anyway, we finished 9th last year. Even if we hadn't signed anybody, we should still be doing better than we are.

 

[Sheffsteel]

His recruitment since getting promoted has been poor. I still don't understand the Ramsdale signing. I'd have gone for Foster from Watford, paid him what he wanted and used the savings from the £18,000,000 to address the JOC replacement.

Brewster might be good, but he's a gamble. At £24m Liverpool must be sniggering behind their hands. For less money I'd have gone for Demarai Gray from Leicester who has the pace we desperately need.

Lowe looks poor, Bogle isn't anywhere near the team, Robinson and Osborn look average, not sure why Rodwell and Jagielka are here if they're nowhere near the team. Robinson has been and gone, to be replaced by Burke who never gets a game. Mousset is almost never match fit (physically or mentally). McBurnie looks a long way from a £18m striker.

The only starters are Ramsdale and Berge. I'm not convinced about Ramsdale, and Berge looks ok, but not stand out.

£130m and the team is largely the same as it was 18 months ago.

Looks really critical when I read it back, but if I was PA I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd want some serious assurances next time CW asked me for money.

I thought everyone understood the current recruitment.....it’s based on calculated risk.
Young players with potential retain or even increase their value. Where as older players have little future value.

I’ll give some examples.
We could buy Foster and Deeny from Watford...paying a small transfer fee but paying them £50K a week
or we could pay a similar total amount for Ramsdale and Brewster instead.

Foster and Deeney are probably better performers for the here and now
but in 2 or 3 years it’s very likely that Ramsdale and Brewster will be better.

Also a well run club must plan ahead and prepare for all eventualities.
If we were relegated this season...we’d get nothing for Foster and Deeny, in fact we might even need to pay off their contract to get them to leave.

Whereas we can gaurantee a decent transfer fee will be received for Ramsdale and Brewster....ensuring we can balance the books.
Lets not forget these 2 are amongst the highest rated youngsters in English football.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Anyway, we finished 9th last year. Even if we hadn't signed anybody, we should still be doing better than we are.

Agree....on paper (apart from goalie) our squad is definitely stronger than last season.

Yesterday our only attacks were down the right.
We are really missing O’Connell.....our central defence isn’t as solid and our attacking with Stevens/O’Connell down the left currently isn’t available to us.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Whereas we can gaurantee a decent transfer fee will be received for Ramsdale and Brewster....ensuring we can balance the books.
Lets not forget these 2 are amongst the highest rated youngsters in English football.

I agree on the transfer strategy bit, the danger being around your last point. If a keeper gets relegated twice in 2 seasons he's probably not worth £18m (or even close to that) anymore. If Brewster does nothing for a season and loses confidence he might be shit in the Championship and worthless at the end of his contract.

 

[Muttley]

It's more the loss of JOC, and what seems like a complete turnaround in approach from Wilder that has killed us. IMHO obviously.
As soon as I heard JOC was out, I knew we would seriously struggle.

 

[Speedracer]

Chris Wilder is a legend already no matter what happens, and we HAVE to keep him even if we go down.

However, his recruitment since we were promoted the the Premier League has been shockingly bad. Wage structure or no wage structure, it's just not acceptable that he's spent circa £130m across three transfer windows, on 17 players, and only upgraded ONE position with a definite starter.

Just picking 17 players off the free agents list probably wouldn't have worked out as bad as that.

Here is the rub for me. Most other Premier clubs would spend that amount on 3 or 4 players to go straight into the team, & pay them the going rate for those players, but we simply cannot do that. It would destroy our wage structure & create unrest for one, & for 2 would not flesh out our squad to take into consideration of injuries, rotation etc.

 

[Muttley]

Here is the rub for me. Most other Premier clubs would spend that amount on 3 or 4 players to go straight into the team, & pay them the going rate for those players, but we simply cannot do that. It would destroy our wage structure & create unrest for one, & for 2 would not flesh out our squad to take into consideration of injuries, rotation etc.

Fair point. Where do we go from there though? Do we just accept relegation to a level that we can compete financially? Do we just remain a top half Championship side forever? Then try and do as Norwich did last season in gaining promotion, grabbing the cash and going back down again.

 

[Working Class Hero]

Here is the rub for me. Most other Premier clubs would spend that amount on 3 or 4 players to go straight into the team, & pay them the going rate for those players, but we simply cannot do that. It would destroy our wage structure & create unrest for one, & for 2 would not flesh out our squad to take into consideration of injuries, rotation etc.

But we need more than ONE improvement on the first 11 in three transfer windows, surely? Fleshing out the squad hasn't particularly worked either, as we look like getting relegated due to a few injuries. It's been a bit of a horror show from the recruitment side, whichever way you look at it.

 

[Speedracer]

But we need more than ONE improvement on the first 11 in three transfer windows, surely? Fleshing out the squad hasn't particularly worked either, as we look like getting relegated due to a few injuries. It's been a bit of a horror show from the recruitment side, whichever way you look at it.

I think there are some signings that in isolation could be questioned for sure. Enda's form & George's final ball have resulted in calls for these players to be "upgraded" from some quarters, but I am pretty sure that Bogle & Lowe were brought in with an eye to the future not to go straight in. We can see that Lowe is not ready, although there is some promise there, mind you sending Norrington-Davies out on loan looks a strange one given his progress, & George has certainly responded to the challenge of Bogle.
I actually think it is in midfield that we need better players, Berge is being moved about because of weakness elsewhere, Lunny should be no-where near the 1st team & Fleck has been injured. All that together with Norwood's lack of mobility at this level means we are not going to create a hat full of chances for our strikers every game.

 

[Revolution]

Yes, there are financial limitations, but also self imposed ones.

Back in league one, Clough looked at former Blackpool and Derby players and players in Scotland. This was atypical of League One clubs and hurt us.

With the exception of Berge, Wilder has not shopped on the continent. This is atypical of PL clubs and seems to have hurt us. There was poor value for money in the Championship this summer.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Also a well run club must plan ahead and prepare for all eventualities.
If we were relegated this season...we’d get nothing for Foster and Deeny, in fact we might even need to pay off their contract to get them to leave.

Thanks and I understand the concept. Part of being a well run club is blending a team though generally of older and younger players, old stagers and young bucks, you get my drift.

This solves itself if you stay in the league you're in, and you don't then need the firesales when you're relegated.

Looking at it rationally, it might be the wage structure which isnt helping, rather than the transfer budget. This is one of the skills of management. Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal etc must all have widely varying wages for individual players, but largely manage to do this without upsetting the group. This is a concept we seem wary of engaging in.

I'm not saying we pay wages we can't afford, but sometimes you need to sign players like Foster, pay them £100k pw knowing that it's for two years and there's no resale value. The resale value is only an issue if you're relegated.

I agree with the principle of buy cheap and retain value, and it's hard to judge if this is working given our present predicament. Not sure we would make money on Ramsdale, Brewster or McBurnie if we sold them tomorrow as I think we've paid top dollar for all three of these.

 

[N20 Blade]

Yes, there are financial limitations, but also self imposed ones.

Back in league one, Clough looked at former Blackpool and Derby players and players in Scotland. This was atypical of League One clubs and hurt us.

With the exception of Berge, Wilder has not shopped on the continent. This is atypical of PL clubs and seems to have hurt us. There was poor value for money in the Championship this summer.

Buy British, Bye PL.

 

[Bladesman]

It's more the loss of JOC, and what seems like a complete turnaround in approach from Wilder that has killed us. IMHO obviously.
As soon as I heard JOC was out, I knew we would seriously struggle.

We didn't do enough to replace him, our reaction to his injury that he actually picked up at the end of last season has been poor. We had a spare loan slot and we couldn't get anyone in.

We have had such a good injury record over the last few years and hats off to the club for that but we have really dropped the ball over JOC and Moose. How did we not know these injuries were more serious sooner? We let Moose and JOC carry on playing injured when they both needed surgery.

Maybe these injuries were not easy to spot but did it need more than a month for our medical team to notice there was something wrong?

 

[metalblade]

What killed us was JOC and Fleck picking up injuries last season, we really should have sorted those injuries out then but both were rushed back in the quest for Europe. We all saw the drop off last season but the back up for both was not and is still not good enough. It was bat shit crazy to keep on the likes of Rodwell Bryan and Jags who are never going to start a game only Jags at 38 is making the bench We have four keepers now, two can't make the bench (thank god) that's at least 4 players who are not needed. We will not mention the two lads from Derby the best of which has not even been on the field for us yet the other looks worse than Osborn. Let's not forget want away/can't be arsed Lundstram getting played every week. The brightest forward so far this season is out of favour and never plays now.
Yeah plenty there for Wilder to address a lot of it is his own making.

 

[Silent Blade]

Buy British, Bye PL.

Wilder bought British and Irish for 3 years and then it was "Hello PL"

 

[AnstonBlade1]

100% the recruitment is a big part of where we are, there isn’t an ounce of creativity in our squad, we’ve probably got one/two players with any kind of pace Mouse and Burke.
For some reason Burke can’t get on and Mouse spends majority of season in treatment room.
Instead of wasting a lot of money on Lowe and Bogle some or all should of the money should of been spent on a playmaker someone who can make things happen.

 

[bladesmanluke]

We've recruited to be competitive and financially safe in the Championship if/when it goes wrong in the Premier League.
Personally, I'm ok with that policy as it safeguards the club over the next few years when there could be a lot of clubs 'hitting the wall'. It should also mean that we would have a major advantage in the Championship next season with the players we have and can keep as their wages won't mean we have to sell at 'fire sale' prices.
If anyone doubts that kind of thinking, then have a look across the city at the state of the pigs, given their overspending.
The downside of that approach is that CW seems to have overestimated the mental strength and ability of one or two players he has signed. Hopefully they can be moved on before the next campaign starts.
UTB

We must have spent upwards of £120m. Anything, but winning the league with 100 points would be a failure

 

[FredZeppelin]

We must have spent upwards of £120m. Anything, but winning the league with 100 points would be a failure

It never seems to work quite like that though, does it?
No doubt, Berge will be first out the door. I can see Egan, Baldock, and Fleck being in demand too, but we should have enough to keep them if both parties agree. We might keep JOC due to his injury this season.
We'll be left with 'Walking McBurnie' (unless Swansea get promoted and fancy throwing some of their Prem money our way, in which case I'll personally drive him down there myself), Brewster, Dids, and the rest.
Either way, our finances should be ok. Fresh investment at that point would be a Godsend.

UTB

 

[N20 Blade]

Wilder bought British and Irish for 3 years and then it was "Hello PL"

I know and it was amazing recruitment then for where we were.
We’re in a different place now and we needed to adapt. Too ambitious to replicate Brentford’s moneyball but we’ll regret not doing more I fear.

 

[Wards]

Hard to get it right given the market we have to gamble in.

I do find it somewhat galling that we don’t have enough CB’s to play a good back 3 and neither do we have two that are adaptable enough to make an effective pairing for a back 4