Ramsay

[Flatulent_Bob]

Hear Hear Anyone who gives Monty, Quinn and Cresswell improved three year deals on the back of last years performances should own up and ship out!

That would be the previous manager, and he has been relived of his duties.

 

[JohnDenver]

That would be the previous manager, and he has been relived of his duties.

Talking of which... Have you heard anymore detail about the nature of his sacking? Any rumours near the mark?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Sorry mate, not sure what you are alluding to. Unless you are meaning the rumours about McCabe storming in kicking off in which case it was bollocks.

 

[Revolution]

In terms of Forest.... They are spending a lot of money, more than we could afford at the best of times.

Forest and United are both effectively under control of very rich men. We have Kevin McCabe, they have Nigel Doughty.

I would guess that McCabe and Doughty have personal resources of roughly equal sizes.

Both men have provided funds to their clubs in the past.

Doughty is continuing to do this. McCabe has decided to stop.

Forest do not have greater resources than us as a club. Their resources would, I guess, be roughly equal, save that we have pulled in bigger crowds recently (win for us) whereas less Forest money is tied up in crocks and poorly quality journeymen (win for them). The only difference is that there is still money from the owner to spend for Forest.

The comparison with Forest is interesting because I know a little about Doughty as a result of work I did some years ago. He is a cautious man. Indeed, he has been accused of underfunding Forest before. However, there is money there now and it's a sensible time to put some in because:

1. It's a poor quality league.

2. The rewards are much greater if you go up

3. Most importantly, you cannot stand still.

This last point leads to another issue - I keep hearing people say "we can't live beyond our means any more". Well, we can't if McCabe has given up, but the problem is that every single club in the division is living beyond its means, in the sense that it has outside funding, from the likes of Ryan, the Thais at Leicester, Doughty, Steve Gibson or whoever. It is a rich man's sport. A loss making business. A club that lives within its means with no outside support needs a great youth system, a great manager or a good inherited squad to survive, or it will be relegated, pure and simple. We have none of these things, and yet the taps are turned off. We are going down as a result. And that is McCabe's conscious choice. And yes, I know he doesn't have to put money in if he doesn't want to and the system is unsustainable and all that, but it's still a decision he has taken, and it would have helped had he not sold all of our good players - some of whom were not on expensive wages when compared to players of a similar calibre - at the same time.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

SCB - best if you don't try to be clever by putting words into other people's mouths or telling me what I do or don't want. The total lack of ambition, commitment and drive in our Boardroom is pushing us towards League 1. But hey, who cares, at least we'll be able to get the wage bill down even further.

The board backed the previous two managers which massive wage bills, certainly comparatively to other sides in our league.
We have been running with a wage bill of between 15-20 Million since we were relegated. How is that not showing ambition?
They just gave the money to shit managers something they can accept responsibility for. But after Blackwells start who wouldn't of backed him, the mistake was not letting him go after the play-off defeat.
The club has been backed by the board it just hasn't worked and decisions taken (in good faith IMO) to diversify our income streams haven't paid off because we can't afford to wait for them.
All of which were seriously effected by the unforeseen currently economic crisis.

---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------

In terms of Forest.... They are spending a lot of money, more than we could afford at the best of times.

Forest and United are both effectively under control of very rich men. We have Kevin McCabe, they have Nigel Doughty.

I would guess that McCabe and Doughty have personal resources of roughly equal sizes.

Both men have provided funds to their clubs in the past.

Doughty is continuing to do this. McCabe has decided to stop.

Forest do not have greater resources than us as a club. Their resources would, I guess, be roughly equal, save that we have pulled in bigger crowds recently (win for us) whereas less Forest money is tied up in crocks and poorly quality journeymen (win for them). The only difference is that there is still money from the owner to spend for Forest.

The comparison with Forest is interesting because I know a little about Doughty as a result of work I did some years ago. He is a cautious man. Indeed, he has been accused of underfunding Forest before. However, there is money there now and it's a sensible time to put some in because:

1. It's a poor quality league.

2. The rewards are much greater if you go up

3. Most importantly, you cannot stand still.

This last point leads to another issue - I keep hearing people say "we can't live beyond our means any more". Well, we can't if McCabe has given up, but the problem is that every single club in the division is living beyond its means, in the sense that it has outside funding, from the likes of Ryan, the Thais at Leicester, Doughty, Steve Gibson or whoever. It is a rich man's sport. A loss making business. A club that lives within its means with no outside support needs a great youth system, a great manager or a good inherited squad to survive, or it will be relegated, pure and simple. We have none of these things, and yet the taps are turned off. We are going down as a result. And that is McCabe's conscious choice. And yes, I know he doesn't have to put money in if he doesn't want to and the system is unsustainable and all that, but it's still a decision he has taken, and it would have helped had he not sold all of our good players at the same time.

Good post rev and I agreed with 90% of it.
One thing I would pull you up on is that we have a great youth system, it just take a while and I think we are seeing the benefits of Reid's work and now Pembo taking it to another level entirely. If you look at our results and performances this year the academy looks like being a real bonus, thankfully.
As for a great manager, I think we might have. But we have no evidence to back it up eitherway one thing we can agree on is that he has been given a poor squad on high wages which is going to hamstring and initial building he may want to do in the short term.

 

[Revolution]

You clearly know more about the youth system than I do, Bob, so I will take your word for it (and am pleased to hear we have some good prospects). The only problem is that it is a work in progress and the players it produces will not keep us up this season.

I am unhappy with some of the things Speed has done, though it's a small sample size. I agree it is hard to tell but one mark against him is that some of the players who we know are capable of better things - notably all the striker bar Evans - are playing well below their best on a consistent basis.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

You clearly know more about the youth system than I do, Bob, so I will take your word for it (and am pleased to hear we have some good prospects). The only problem is that it is a work in progress and the players it produces will not keep us up this season.

The results speak for themselves but they aren't ready to step up this season, probably not even Slew. I'm sure he is ok to pick up a few matches but not to be saddled with the responsibility of scoring regularly to keep us up, and you know what the crowd expectations are like.

I am unhappy with some of the things Speed has done, though it's a small sample size. I agree it is hard to tell but one mark against him is that some of the players who we know are capable of better things - notably all the striker bar Evans - are playing well below their best on a consistent basis.

I would say the strikers have played below their best for the past few years and Speeds only been in charge for months. My issue has always been with our midfield not creating enough.
I haven't agreed with everything Speed has done, but I have sympathy with him trying to make the best of a bad situation. Being lumbered with Nos all season taking at least a million out of his wage bill is a sickner, as is having Cresswell and Quinny on new deals.
Birch's biggest mistake was not to sack Blackwell in the summer, but I'm sure he doesn't need me to tell him that.

 

[Wapping Blade]

In Speedo's post-match interview, PW asked him about Slew and he said that he isn't ready and needs to start scoring regularly for the reserves first, though he did admit that he didn't have many (any) options up front.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

In Speedo's post-match interview, PW asked him about Slew and he said that he isn't ready and needs to start scoring regularly for the reserves first, though he did admit that he didn't have many (any) options up front.

Yep I'd agree, Slew has picked up a few reserve goals though I think. Slew thinks he is ready, Speed obviously wants to see a bit more from him although I think we might see him a little more over the next few weeks. I seriously doubt that he is ready to start for us as a lone striker and you have to be careful with the lads confidence he has to be properly managed even if he doesn't think so.

 

[SotonBlade]

In Speedo's post-match interview, PW asked him about Slew and he said that he isn't ready and needs to start scoring regularly for the reserves first, though he did admit that he didn't have many (any) options up front.

That frustrates me slightly. If Slew's not ready, and he admits he has few options up top, then why haven't we gone out and got one or two strikers in on loan? He may have well been knocked back in a few attempts, quite likely, or could have been put out of a any deals with the percentage of wages being asked to pay, but you'd have thought at least one would have come in!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

That frustrates me slightly. If Slew's not ready, and he admits he has few options up top, then why haven't we gone out and got one or two strikers in on loan? He may have well been knocked back in a few attempts, quite likely, or could have been put out of a any deals with the percentage of wages being asked to pay, but you'd have thought at least one would have come in!

We can't pay them Soton, they will want 20K/week wages.

 

[super_pig]

>That frustrates me slightly.
yeah me an'nall.. i don't get this 'ooh he's not ready guff'.. do they change the rules when you play in the first team?.. increase the level of gravity perhaps.. it is the same game.. so what happens.. slew wakes up one morning and feels as though he had a road to damascus experience.. he eagerly grabs the phone and rings GS.. 'boss.. it's happened.. i'm ready at last.. there was this sword in a stone and i pulled it out by accident.. like it's going to happen overnight.. puzzling

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

or you trust the managers ability to judge the player his confidence level and his ability.

Say Slew starts next week and misses a sitter the crowd will be on his back, forums will be full of fans saying he is shit etc. His confidence could be shot and you've got to build him back up.
If he is a kid who takes knocks hard you have to manage that. Speed doesn't think he is ready, I don't think he is own his own with that opinion.
Keep him on the bench while we have these injuries and see what he does. He might take the chance with both hands.

 

[super_pig]

>Say Slew starts next week and misses a sitter the crowd will be on his back
i don't think they are that fickle.. they gave evans a season and a half before getting on 'his' back.. i don't reckon it will do his confidence any good sitting on the bench thinking 'everyone is injured and i still can't get in this damned team'.. never did mine any good

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

yeah but you were really shit

and our crowd are terrible they gave Ched time because of the transfer fee. Look at Bartley he was hammered, as was that lad from Stoke and they were trying to fit into an ever changing back four..

 

[broomhillblade]

I'm sure fans of Stoke & Blackpool et al aren't worrying that the good times won't last for ever! They've shown some ambition & are having a great time in the here and now. That's what football is about - not plodding along being happy with mediocrity.

I'm sure the people of Ireland felt much the same a few years back when they were enjoying the boom years.