Pyro or flare?

[Bladesway]

Three threads, two regarding the use of pyrotechnics and one about pitch invasions (oh the humanity). Each of them running into the hundreds of comments.

All that needs to be said about the subject is that it's a bit fucking silly and yes, potentially dangerous. Fortunately the law and ground regulations agree, so that should be the end of the matter.

The continued Mary Whitehouse-esque condemnation is indeed self-righteous, self indulgent bollocks however.

Fair point that it repeats and repeats but go through this site and that is what it is. A new song from someone who wants to start a thread about it, perhaps another kit thread? People making the same comments about the same shit. Should we do a song for Wilder? Should Knill get his own special appreciation minute? It's all inane drivel from back to front. Just some words on a message board on the internet somewhere.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I did, it was a flare.

You still haven't answered the question about what it is we are no longer allowed to say?

I've looked up the definition of a flare and it seems that it is a generic term which encapsulates everything from distress flares to those devices you chuck in your drains to check for leaks and such. There is a world of difference between them. I have only witnessed the smoke "flares" going off as opposed to the "incendiary" type going off at recent matches. Without wishing to engage in a round of semantics, I will concede that the "smoke" type is a flare. It might help if you and others differentiate between the two to avoid sensationalism.

My take on "not being allowed to say" referred to the umbrage on display during the last few games should you dare to be critical of the team or certain players. Nothing more sinister than that. Why racism springs to yours and the minds of others I would guess only you could explain.

 

[Tyler Durden]

So your problem is that a lot of people on this forum have an opinion on the matter? Or is it that their opinion differs from yours? The 3 threads in question, with hundreds of comments, have been contributed to by yourself. What's the problem if others want to contribute as well?

(You might notice I haven't contributed to any of them, other than this post, I'm just not a big fan of people saying what others should and shouldn't have an opinion about)

My opinion doesn't differ greatly from what else has been posted actually, not where the use of projectile devices is concerned anyhow.
I'm just stating my opposition to the endless stream of righteous indignation and suggesting that hundreds and hundreds of posts stating the same thing crosses the line into self-indulgence.

 

[LJBlade]

I've looked up the definition of a flare and it seems that it is a generic term which encapsulates everything from distress flares to those devices you chuck in your drains to check for leaks and such. There is a world of difference between them. I have only witnessed the smoke "flares" going off as opposed to the "incendiary" type going off at recent matches. Without wishing to engage in a round of semantics, I will concede that the "smoke" type is a flare. It might help if you and others differentiate between the two to avoid sensationalism.

My take on "not being allowed to say" referred to the umbrage on display during the last few games should you dare to be critical of the team or certain players. Nothing more sinister than that. Why racism springs to yours and the minds of others I would guess only you could explain.

Is there really a need to 'differentiate between the two to avoid sensationalism' bearing in mind they're all banned?

 

[LJBlade]

My opinion doesn't differ greatly from what else has been posted actually, not where the use of projectile devices is concerned anyhow.
I'm just stating my opposition to the endless stream of righteous indignation and suggesting that hundreds and hundreds of posts stating the same thing crosses the line into self-indulgence.

I didn't think it did differ, based on other opinions you've expressed. Like I said though, it's just people giving their opinions, that's what a message board is for. Like Bladesway says, the repetition happens all the time on this forum, on even more mundane topics.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Is there really a need to 'differentiate between the two to avoid sensationalism' bearing in mind they're all banned?

So is alcohol and drunkenness under the same Act but everyone seems to be swerving that part of it.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I've looked up the definition of a flare and it seems that it is a generic term which encapsulates everything from distress flares to those devices you chuck in your drains to check for leaks and such. There is a world of difference between them. I have only witnessed the smoke "flares" going off as opposed to the "incendiary" type going off at recent matches. Without wishing to engage in a round of semantics, I will concede that the "smoke" type is a flare. It might help if you and others differentiate between the two to avoid sensationalism.

My take on "not being allowed to say" referred to the umbrage on display during the last few games should you dare to be critical of the team or certain players. Nothing more sinister than that. Why racism springs to yours and the minds of others I would guess only you could explain.

I didn't mention racism at any point and certainly didn't insinuate it in your direction if you care to check (other than in connection with having fronted up to racists in the past as I would also do with wankers bearing pyro if my kids are with me or if there are any kids in the vicinity, I would also report them, and there's the connection). I was just very interested in what we are no longer allowed to say, because I can't think of too much in that category.

 

[Nick Jansky]

the repetition happens all the time on this forum, on even more mundane topics.

Very often from you.

 

[LJBlade]

Very often from you.

What? Are you missing the point that I'm actually arguing in your favour?

 

[Bladesway]

So is alcohol and drunkenness under the same Act but everyone seems to be swerving that part of it.

Are they? Having alcohol doesn't make you drunk but too much of it does. Like in the street or anywhere else. Being drunk doesn't always mean you are a menace either. Being drunk and disorderly however changes that.

Alcohol isn't as cut and dried as Pyro. Hence it is difficult to say where you draw the line, where with a smoke bomb or flare, or anything else related to that the line is easily defined.

My guess with alcohol is that if there were an emergency and they needed to clear the stands (say a flare catches fire etc), then by being pissed you are putting lives at risk. That said if there is such a concern over alcohol then they shouldn't make it available in the ground.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I didn't mention racism at any point and certainly didn't insinuate it in your direction if you care to check (other than in connection with having fronted up to racists in the past as I would also do with wankers bearing pyro if my kids are with me or if there are any kids in the vicinity, I would also report them, and there's the connection). I was just very interested in what we are no longer allowed to say, because I can't think of too much in that category.

Maybe you didn't but another poster did which kicked this whole thing off. He's not offered anything since I rebuked him on this. I think it's gone off at a tangent since then and you and I have become the protagonists unintentionally. I'll offer you the last word if you like but I'll leave it at that for my part.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Are they? Having alcohol doesn't make you drunk but too much of it does. Like in the street or anywhere else. Being drunk doesn't always mean you are a menace either. Being drunk and disorderly however changes that.

Yes, it's black and white, read it. If you've ever had a beer on a football coach or a minibus you've committed a crime, as have you if you've rocked up pissed at a football match. How this can be reconciled with selling alcohol in a football ground I don't know but then again I didn't write the bloody thing.

 

[Nick Jansky]

What? Are you missing the point that I'm actually arguing in your favour?

Sorry mate, I haven't missed the point, I messed up the quote thing, that was actually aimed at the hypocritical bore Tyler Durden.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Maybe you didn't but another poster did which kicked this whole thing off. He's not offered anything since I rebuked him on this. I think it's gone off at a tangent since then and you and I have become the protagonists unintentionally. I'll offer you the last word if you like but I'll leave it at that for my part.

Another poster, not me. I hear your point of view, have taken on board your responses, we disagree on some points but no beef from me.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Sorry mate, I haven't missed the point, I messed up the quote thing, that was actually aimed at the hypocritical bore Tyler Durden.

Poor aim then, brainiac. Thank fuck you weren't throwing any flares.

 

[diplomat]

Before this thread goes any further, can someone confirm whether the offending object was a flare or a smoke bomb. One is an incendiary device which can do substantial damage to people and property. The other errm, emits smoke. It's like comparing a nuclear bomb with a photo bomb. One is regularly confused with the other for some reason, mainly for sensationalism in my guess. A bit like bringing racism into the debate. I haven't seen any flares going off for about 15 years so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I think it relates to the flare that was lit and held, not thrown, when done scored. Not the smoke bombs that were thrown prior to that.

Incidentally, my recollection is that the first smoke bomb that was thrown in to a crowd was a white one that came from vale in to our end. The one from our end went in to the pitch and was red. I thought it came from the back of their stand, didn't reach the pitch, and a bright spark amongst them picked it up and ran a few paces before lobbing it at us. I watched the guy who chucked it (who was clearly identifiable but no steward or police did owt)

Not that it makes a lot of difference but their fury about a smoke bomb hitting a child made me wonder if they were talking about their own bomb. (That in my opinion, didn't hit a child)

Was I imagining this?

 

[Tyler Durden]

I think it relates to the flare that was lit and held, not thrown, when done scored. Not the smoke bombs that were thrown prior to that.

Incidentally, my recollection is that the first smoke bomb that was thrown in to a crowd was a white one that came from vale in to our end. The one from our end went in to the pitch and was red. I thought it came from the back of their stand, didn't reach the pitch, and a bright spark amongst them picked it up and ran a few paces before lobbing it at us. I watched the guy who chucked it (who was clearly identifiable but no steward or police did owt)

Not that it makes a lot of difference but their fury about a smoke bomb hitting a child made me wonder if they were talking about their own bomb. (That in my opinion, didn't hit a child)

Was I imagining this?

That's correct. The smoke cannister thrown from their end landed a couple of rows in front of me. One was then thrown into their end a while later. The rest landed on the pitch.

One flare was lit and held in the air but not thrown at anyone as it was too far away.

As a side point, the term 'smoke bomb' is misleading since they don't explode. It's a pretty sensationalist description.

Bricks were thrown outside the ground. But this forum is strangely quiet about that.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Poor aim then, brainiac. Thank fuck you weren't throwing any flares.

Who says I wasn't. As you so ably & frequently demonstrate, we can all hide behind pithy pseudonyms on here (Tyler Durden ffs!!!!) and spout ridiculous bollocks, be hypocritical and deliberately make people think you are a twat (I do this, just like you) bearing no relation whatsoever to the reality of what you are. Maybe.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Who says I wasn't. As you so ably & frequently demonstrate, we can all hide behind pithy pseudonyms on here (Tyler Durden ffs!!!!) and spout ridiculous bollocks, be hypocritical and deliberately make people think you are a twat (I do this, just like you) bearing no relation whatsoever to the reality of what you are. Maybe.

Why would I need to hide? Never done before, don't see any reason to start now.

 

[BarlboroughBlade]

you are all pissing the point. It is quiet simple. Make the family stand all standing and allow smoke bombs and flares. In fact, give a 10% discount for Blades that have let off at least 3 smoke bombs in the last 3 years. That would sort out the true blades and make the plastic fantastic joiners stand out like a pig in a chicken hut. Fuck the Cop boys, they are ten'o'pennie anyway. The real singing comes from the back 3 rows of the south stand where flares are definitely 'Non concessum'(Fernebache fans would understand) but the thick feckers on here are going to Google like mad. Whilst wer'e on a roll, what about anyone who uses the Paki word, we could shuv said flare or smoke bomb up there arse and call it justice.

Just a word to the wise fellow baldes. Don't post afer two bottls El Bombero (google than bitch)

 

[Nick Jansky]

Why would I need to hide? Never done before, don't see any reason to start now.

Nor me, but I am very easily tracked down via my pseudonym, much less so you.

 

[BarlboroughBlade]

Who says I wasn't. As you so ably & frequently demonstrate, we can all hide behind pithy pseudonyms on here (Tyler Durden ffs!!!!) and spout ridiculous bollocks, be hypocritical and deliberately make people think you are a twat (I do this, just like you) bearing no relation whatsoever to the reality of what you are. Maybe.

What, is that not his real name? What a cunt

 

[bladesmanluke]

Anybody would think a fucking IED had been let off and ended the lives of hundreds in the away end ffs.

It's a flare and a bit of smoke. A bloody child's birthday cake burns hotter.

 

[TonyAgana]

Anybody would think a fucking IED had been let off and ended the lives of hundreds in the away end ffs.

It's a flare and a bit of smoke. A bloody child's birthday cake burns hotter.

See above Tyler Durden , this is why threads run to dozens of pages.

 

[Blade56]

......we are a family and an army. ..........I would never dream of stitching up a fellow blade. .....

I understand and admire your loyalty s4b towards friends, family and fellow blades.

However, not going to read the whole thread and this might have been covered but you exuberance is admirable but your "army" comment worries me a little. With all the worlds ills we are fortunate enough to be free to go to matches, support who we want, have some craic without fear of punishment, injury or death. We are not an army ffs. We are a football club with great supporters.

What would you want to happen if a Wendy fan threw a pyro and it maimed you or someone close to you like your child, your father? I'm guessing you would want or expect someone to point the culprit out to plod. Don't think you would admire them for keeping his identity secret so he could get away with it, or do you?

Football is a great communal sporting activity where fans, friends and family get together and enjoy the beautiful game (or should be pyro idiots et al aside).

His poor judgement and choice to smuggle a pyro device into a crowded area where it could maim, bling or disfigure randomly even fellow blades. Look at what a fag end did to the stand at bradfords ground 50+ dead.

He deserves the book throwing at him IMO. There off me chest.

 

[Davalon]

There's also fans on here that want 3,000 of us banning for going on the pitch at Northampton.

We don't need pigonomics on here thanks

 

[Bladesway]

Yes, it's black and white, read it. If you've ever had a beer on a football coach or a minibus you've committed a crime, as have you if you've rocked up pissed at a football match. How this can be reconciled with selling alcohol in a football ground I don't know but then again I didn't write the bloody thing.

What is pissed? At what level do you go from having had a drink to being pissed? With a flare or smoke bomb or Pyro it is easy, you either have one or you don't.

I don't think I ever have had a beer on a coach/bus to the football by the way, but I understand what the rules are. If you choose to break the rules then there should be no issue as to the punishment. I am a law abiding citizen and if I break those laws I expect the same punishment as everyone else. I get caught speeding then I deserve the fine/points. It's a bummer but it is what it is.

 

[Bladesway]

Yes, it's black and white, read it. If you've ever had a beer on a football coach or a minibus you've committed a crime, as have you if you've rocked up pissed at a football match. How this can be reconciled with selling alcohol in a football ground I don't know but then again I didn't write the bloody thing.

Have you brought racism and Pyro to the table again?

 

[Bladesway]

Anybody would think a fucking IED had been let off and ended the lives of hundreds in the away end ffs.

It's a flare and a bit of smoke. A bloody child's birthday cake burns hotter.

I'd put it down to late night posting after a drink but unfortunately you have form pretending to be a bit of a plastic hard man. You clearly are a thoughtless, brainless piece of work. Oh and a child birthday cake doesn't burn hotter, not even when it is in the oven.

Must. Engage. Brain.

 

[Punk Blade]

This debate is even more baffling than the pitch invasion debate. It's law. There's no counter argument to that. I could understand people wanting the law on entering the pitch to be altered and I understand those occasions when people want to get on the pitch (though personally I still wouldn't agree with it), but throwing dangerous smoking and/or burning objects around? As someone else said (sorry, didn't grab the quote as I read the thread) you wouldn't start chucking things like that around at other events or places with large crowds, nor would you do it in the city centre or your own back garden.

If I saw someone with such a device at a football match I would immediately inform the nearest steward/police officer. I would expect any sensible person to do the same.

Whenever I see or hear of such incidents my first two noughts are:
1. I hope nobody (both sets of fans, ground staff, stewards, police, players, club staff) is hurt.
2. The club could get in trouble for the actions of one moron and I sincerely hope we don't get handed a points deduction/huge prohibitive fine/have to play game(s) behind closed doors.

How would you all feel if the EFL handed us a 20 point deduction and condemned us to the playoffs before next Sunday?

Pyro myself, where is the vote button

No surprise there, you displayed your support of law-breaking in the pitch invasion thread.

Three threads, two regarding the use of pyrotechnics and one about pitch invasions (oh the humanity). Each of them running into the hundreds of comments.

All that needs to be said about the subject is that it's a bit fucking silly and yes, potentially dangerous. Fortunately the law and ground regulations agree, so that should be the end of the matter.

The continued Mary Whitehouse-esque condemnation is indeed self-righteous, self indulgent bollocks however.

The reason sensible people feel the need to continue to make their case is that people like you say it's no big deal, so the idiots breaking the law think they're alright to carry on and get away with it.



DISCLAIMER
Pointing out the word 'punk' is in my username will in no way invalidate my argument or support yours.