Premier league myth

[Blade.com]

This myth regarding the premier league being the best in the world
Leeds united hammered by Crawley, Brighton struggled against Newport,Liverpool struggled against Aston Villa kids first half we scrapped through against Bristol Rovers,Everton v Rotherham Blackpool through against West Brom
The Manchester United team of Giggs,Scholes,Cantona,and the rest,the Liverpool, Leeds teams of the 70s,Arsenal invincibles would hammer today's premier league teams
How many of today's England players would get into the 1966 World Cup team NON
Football has gone backwards watching today's football sends you to sleep

Always said all the so called pundits on TV are Premier league arse lickers all they say is " The best league in the world". As for England you can go back 40 years and hear, "All these young up and coming players are ready" . Bit still we wait for England to show anything at all like class and skill. We bungle through to the finals and if a bit of luck goes our way we may make the quarters. Come on can you see England winning owt with Declan Rice, Mason Mount and Jadon Sancho. The pundits talkem up like world beaters.

 

[SteveBlade]

Weird to compare, it's a different game.

Transport the England players of today back to 66 and have them play on their pitches, the 2021 squad wins. They are far better athletes and would beat them on any surface.

If the players of 66 were born in the 90s and had the advantages that players do now, there's no reason why a lot of them wouldn't be world class in today's game.

I'd actually go as far to say that if you dress most professional sides of today in the country in the German kit and have them travel to 66, kidnap the Germans and play against England in that world cup final, England lose.

 

[Blade.com]

View attachment 102793

They'd need to catch up to them in order to tackle them

Tyrone Mings against Jimmy Greaves. Need to catch him ,that would be a laugh.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Kane for England 51 games 32 goals

Greaves 57 games 44 goals.

Bert, you’re not comparing apples with apples, consider the following;

Greavesies 44 goals came from the following sources;
Friendlies 20
Home internationals 19
Competitive (WC / Euros) 5

Kane
Friendlies 5
WC Qual 5
WC finals 6
Euro Qual 15
UEFA Nations LG 1

Suggest that Kane has scored against much better opposition in more pressurised games whereas Greaves scored mainly against patsies

 

[Bert]

Bert, you’re not comparing apples with apples, consider the following;

Greavesies 44 goals came from the following sources;
Friendlies 20
Home internationals 19
Competitive (WC / Euros) 5

Kane
Friendlies 5
WC Qual 5
WC finals 6
Euro Qual 15
UEFA Nations LG 1

Suggest that Kane has scored against much better opposition in more pressurised games whereas Greaves scored mainly against patsies

Greaves 357 First Division goals, Kane 155.

Greaves had scored 100 of them by the time he was 20 years old and by the time he was 30 he was finished.

Bert is a big fan of Harry Kane but he still has a long way to go till he catches Greaves.

 

[gordoncharles]

This discussion has been done on here so many times and although it's interesting, like SouthEssexBlade says, it's like comparing Apples and Oranges given the many differences in the game.

I don't think you can compare Kane to Bobby Charlton either as they were completely different types of players. Kane is a poacher goalscorer, whereas Bobby was more of an attacking midfielder, but could do everything. Can you imagine telling Kane to mark Beckenbauer?

On the big stage, Charlton scored two quality goals that beat Portugal in the World Cup semi final. Kane scored 2 against Tunisia and 3 against Panama, of which 2 were penalties (still got to score them though) and 1 which was basically a deflection off his heel that he knew nothing about.

Generational differences aside, which render comparisons basically useless..... is there someone genuinely comparing Kane with Bobby Charlton? F.F.S.

 

[gordoncharles]

Weird to compare, it's a different game.

Transport the England players of today back to 66 and have them play on their pitches, the 2021 squad wins. They are far better athletes and would beat them on any surface.

If the players of 66 were born in the 90s and had the advantages that players do now, there's no reason why a lot of them wouldn't be world class in today's game.

I'd actually go as far to say that if you dress most professional sides of today in the country in the German kit and have them travel to 66, kidnap the Germans and play against England in that world cup final, England lose.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Greaves 357 First Division goals, Kane 155.

Greaves had scored 100 of them by the time he was 20 years old and by the time he was 30 he was finished.

Bert is a big fan of Harry Kane but he still has a long way to go till he catches Greaves.

Greaves 357 First Division goals, Kane 155.

Greaves had scored 100 of them by the time he was 20 years old and by the time he was 30 he was finished.

Bert is a big fan of Harry Kane but he still has a long way to go till he catches Greaves.

Don’t disagree, but that’s an entirely different set of variables again.

Fitness, diet, athleticism, pitches, game frequency have all changed massively thus rendering direct comparison v subjective.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Generational differences aside, which render comparisons basically useless..... is there someone genuinely comparing Kane with Bobby Charlton? F.F.S.

See #17

 

[BettingBlade]

Indeed, the 66 team were World champions. We've never been close since.

Probably shows how much England has failed to move forward in terms of how the game is played. English football fans love a strong tackle just as much as a goal sometimes which I just dont think happens in many other places.

I think the Premier League is actually part of the problem. It's become such a business model now that the intention for over half of the Premier League teams at the start of the season is to stay in there at all costs. In England we teach young footballers how to win, not how to play. Which is why so many Premier League games aren't actually that good to watch as a neutral.

The last time England had a genuinely world class team that had a right to expect to win something was the 'golden generation' under Sven. Certainly can't think of many English players that you could unquestionably put in a 'World XI' since then. It's probably easier to compare the England team from the 02-06 era to that 66 squad than the current one as they were the last side that genuinely had a chance of winning the World Cup. One of the major reasons they didn't was because of the huge rivalries that existed in club football at that time meaning the harmony in the national squad was never quite right, something that has been well documented from players in those squads. It's a shame that it coincided with a period where the Premier League was really starting to gather some momentum globally, the turn of the millenium was a genuine turning point for English club football and I actually think that has hindered England's success in national competitions.

 

[bladesmanluke]

And if Moore, Banks, Charlton etc were playing today they wouldn't get picked for England?

If they successfully adapted to the rigours of the modern game, by getting much fitter of course they would, but that's the point isn't it. Who can say which players of the past would've been able to reach today's physical demands.

 

[DaleHillBlade]

Not sure what it adds, if anything, but as someone who has watched non league football as well for decades.. it has undoubtedly seen a great improvement in quality in the last ten years. Players and their managers actually trying to play football, even at tier 10-11 etc. So I’m not sure the elite players of today are any more talented then their peers of decades ago, but the opportunity to develop footballers from an early age and through the pyramid is greater, more academies better run with better facilities. I’m of the opinion that on average, based on opportunities being more available, the quality of football is greater and there are more good players than ever, but the rare talent is exactly that. And always has been.

 

[1889]

This is a debate that nobody can win, its all a matter of personal opinion.

FWIW, I think good footballers are good footballers and would flourish in what ever era that you morphed them into. Its not the lads who play the game, that changes its the game itself, the boots. the playing surfaces, the footballs, the sports science, the dieticians, the floodlights and reduced fixtures have all meant that the game has evolved and is incomparable to the game of yesteryear.

But no one can tell me, that if Jimmy Hagan and Tony Currie had been born in 1995, that they wouldn't be the stars of our current side

 

[Silent Blade]

This discussion has been done on here so many times and although it's interesting, like SouthEssexBlade says, it's like comparing Apples and Oranges given the many differences in the game.

I don't think you can compare Kane to Bobby Charlton either as they were completely different types of players. Kane is a poacher goalscorer, whereas Bobby was more of an attacking midfielder, but could do everything. Can you imagine telling Kane to mark Beckenbauer?

On the big stage, Charlton scored two quality goals that beat Portugal in the World Cup semi final. Kane scored 2 against Tunisia and 3 against Panama, of which 2 were penalties (still got to score them though) and 1 which was basically a deflection off his heel that he knew nothing about.

Bobby Charlton played on the left wing until Ramsey decided to use him as a playmaker (not sure if it was in 1964 or 1965)

 

[oldblade]

But they wouldn't be athletes of today, they'd be 1960's players playing against 60's players on 60's pitches.

Don't forget they'd also be playing with a 60s ball that was heavy at the best of times but weighed us much as a medicine ball when wet.

 

[BladesOnToast]

Kane
Friendlies 5
WC Qual 5
WC finals 6
Euro Qual 15
UEFA Nations LG 1

Suggest that Kane has scored against much better opposition in more pressurised games whereas Greaves scored mainly against patsies

A selection of that "much better opposition":

Lithuania
San Marino
Turkey
Scotland
Malta
Slovenia
Lithuania
Nigeria
Tunisia x2
Panama x2
Montenegro x3
Bulgaria x4
Kosovo

Not quite the elite of world football is it?

 

[Deaneandagana]

A selection of that "much better opposition":

Lithuania
San Marino
Turkey
Scotland
Malta
Slovenia
Lithuania
Nigeria
Tunisia x2
Panama x2
Montenegro x3
Bulgaria x4
Kosovo

Not quite the elite of world football is it?

But then hardly friendlies & matches vs N Ireland & the likes either.

 

[Half Bond Jls]

When I was younger I used to watch Serie A on channel 4 every Sunday and it used to have all the best players. Now it seems all the best players apart from Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, ect. ect want to play in the Premier League. You can't argue though that the likes of Greaves, Pele and all the other old stars used to play with the heavy case balls and when you look at some of the old footage of what they used to do with the ball its pretty impressive.

 

[Bert]

But then hardly friendlies & matches vs N Ireland & the likes either.

The Home Internationals were always highly competitive.
Northern Ireland had players like Best, Blanchflower and Jennings.

Scotland very often had a better team than we did.

 

[10-0 win]

The lower leagues in England are far better than lower leagues in Germany.Italy and Spain.

 

[gordoncharles]

The lower leagues in England are far better than lower leagues in Germany.Italy and Spain.

Again, there is no direct comparison apart from - taking Spain as an example - the 2nd Division vs The Championship. There's very little difference between teams in those two divisions, technically, which you would expect as their respective top divisions are also generally at a similar level.

Below that the other nations are more regionalised. There are 80 sides competing at the third level in Spain for four promotion places. You therefore get a mixture of standards from L1 to National League level, larger clubs against those from very small towns and B-teams.

 

[oldblade]

But then hardly friendlies & matches vs N Ireland & the likes either.

It is true that Northern Ireland were not a great footballing power and England did have regular fixtures against them as well as against Scotland and Wales. This was because of the annual home international tournament. This might not have been regarded as particularly important worldwide, but it was very important to the home nations and matches were usually pretty fiercely contested.

A home international match against Northern Ireland (think they were just referred to as Ireland in those days and Sure were referred to as the Republic of Ireland) was IMHO a tougher prospect than playing San Marino. Lithuania, Malta etc. in a world cup or European nations qualifier.

 

[oldblade]

The Home Internationals were always highly competitive.
Northern Ireland had players like Best, Blanchflower and Jennings.

Scotland very often had a better team than we did.

Beat me to it. I should have read the remaining posts before adding the above!

 

[Bert]

Beat me to it. I should have read the remaining posts before adding the above!

Well anyone who was around in those days knew just how tough the games were.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Well anyone who was around in those days knew just how tough the games were.

So the home nations were the power houses of world & European football in JG’s era?

The facts are that both N Ireland & Wales qualified for the 1958 WC but not until 1982 did Northern Ireland qualify again & Wales are still awaiting a further appearance.

Scotland qualified for the first time in 1974, strongly suspect JG had hung up his international boots by this date.

Incidentally the 3 respective home nations Euro qualification history is equally as unimpressive.

 

[Bert]

So the home nations were the power houses of world & European football in JG’s era?

Where exactly did Bert say that?

 

[Gavlar]

It’s hard comparing apples with oranges fellas.

 

[Bert]

It’s hard comparing apples with oranges fellas.

Very true. But records can be compared.

Anyone who doubts the stature of Greaves should spend 10 minutes reading this.

Jimmy Greaves - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[MoscowBlade]

All of today's England players would get into the 66 world Cup team in reality as their pace and fitness is on another planet.

I would rather gave Gordon Banks in goal than Jordan Pickford

 

[BettingBlade]

The lower leagues in England are far better than lower leagues in Germany.Italy and Spain.

I quite like watching German football me. I think it’s probably most similar to us culturally in terms of how the game is played. I think if there was a bit more competition in the Bundesliga then it has potential to rival the Premier League as the so called ‘Best League in the World’.

Sadly, I think the amount of cash in the Premier League means the German leagues will never quite reach the same level.