Predict the table after this weekend.

[LJBlade]

I never deride the football club I support, I just like to deal in facts.

And It's a fact that Chris Wilder's Sheffield United don't win away at clubs who reside at the top end of the table.

A bit like that ‘fact’ that people were talking about at the start of this season regarding United not being able to win in London. Last season that might have been the case but last season is irrelevant to this season, as we’ve shown.

And I’ll repeat, Derby are on the same points as Blackburn. We won at Blackburn.

 

[Pinchy]

I never deride the football club I support, I just like to deal in facts.

And It's a fact that Chris Wilder's Sheffield United don't win away at clubs who reside at the top end of the table.

You deal in malicious, ill-informed claptrap.

Many teams are not in the top six, at least in part, because they have been beaten by us. Bolton were third, I think, when we demolished them? Blackburn would be comfortably in the top-six had our classy victory gone the other way. So would Norwich (not an away game but what’s the difference?). There are numerous other examples from the last three seasons.

It’s all meaningless, contrived drivel in any event. In the Championship you play each team twice over nine months and tot up the points at the end of the season. That’s when you find out which teams ‘reside at the top end of the table’.

You prefer to pick whichever snapshot in time that suits your daft, misguided and utterly irrelevant dig at the club you claim to support, but try to undermine at every opportunity. This one is particularly feeble, even by your spectacularly low standards.

 

[8lade]

I see Derby as the last team who will 'have a go' without the wherewithal to back it up, nothings nailed on put can see a win. Stoke and Wigan will be much harder as I see bus parking.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

It’s all meaningless, contrived drivel in any event. In the Championship you play each team twice over nine months and tot up the points at the end of the season. That’s when you find out which teams ‘reside at the top end of the table’.

That's exactly what I'm basing it on.

I'll repeat it again. Last season we didn't beat any team that finished above us away from home (nine teams).

This season we have not yet beaten any team away from home who I believe will finish in the top nine.

What's not to understand?

Until we beat someone of quality away from home there's no evidence to suggest we have the capacity to do it.

 

[Pinchy]

That's exactly what I'm basing it on.

I'll repeat it again. Last season we didn't beat any team that finished above us away from home (nine teams).

This season we have not yet beaten any team away from home who I believe will finish in the top nine.

What's not to understand?

Until we beat someone of quality away from home there's no evidence to suggest we have the capacity to do it.

What’s not to understand is why anyone in their right mind would be guided by you as to who will finish in the top nine?

What’s not to understand is why you constantly seek to undermine a club and team of which we should all be very proud?

We’ve played 12 games from which we’ve taken a hugely impressive 25 points. We’ve won more away games than any other team in the league, bar none.

United didn’t formulate the fixture lists. We’ve played the teams required of us by the league. We’ll continue to do so for another 34 games. We’ll then count up the points. It’s three for a win an one for a draw. It doesn’t matter which teams you’ve beaten or lost to in accruing those points. There are no premium points. The value is the same. There will be teams who don’t make the top six because, at least in part, they have been beaten by us.

Now for once do yourself a favour. Listen and think when people are trying to help you rather than falling over yourself in a frantic rush to make your next daft statement.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

What’s not to understand is why anyone in their right mind would be guided by you as to who will finish in the top nine?

You disagree then?

We've only beaten QPR, Bolton, Millwall and Blackburn away.

Who out of that lot will finish in the top nine?

 

[Pinchy]

You disagree then?

We've only beaten QPR, Bolton, Millwall and Blackburn away.

Who out of that lot will finish in the top nine?

Only procured 12 precious points? Won four of the six away games we have been required to play by those who create the fixture list?

I’m afraid it’s always the same with you. Your complete inability to depart from your set agenda or to adjust your misguided thinking in any way renders any conversation with you completely otiose. You are not interested in what I say to you, but rather stick like glue to your original premise, eyes closed to its devaluation in the face of common sense. You have a greater capacity to miss obvious points by many a mile than anyone else (at least on here) I can immediately think of.

Have you absconded from the Special Football Needs Referral Unit again. At the moment, it’s not working, is it?

I have, whether you like it or not, a substantially greater fund of knowledge and experience on just about everything in life than you have. You would be well advised to take advantage of my generosity in sharing some of it with you. Yet bizarrely you continue to seek confrontation rather than dialogue. This one ends here.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Only procured 12 precious points? Won four of the six away games we have been required to play by those who create the fixture list?

I’m afraid it’s always the same with you. Your complete inability to depart from your set agenda or to adjust your misguided thinking in any way renders any conversation with you completely otiose. You are not interested in what I say to you, but rather stick like glue to your original premise, eyes closed to its devaluation in the face of common sense. You have a greater capacity to miss obvious points by many a mile than anyone else (at least on here) I can immediately think of.

Have you absconded from the Special Football Needs Referral Unit again. At the moment, it’s not working, is it?

I have, whether you like it or not, a substantially greater fund of knowledge and experience on just about everything in life than you have. You would be well advised to take advantage of my generosity in sharing some of it with you. Yet bizarrely you continue to seek confrontation rather than dialogue. This one ends here.

Four paragraphs and you still didn't answer my question.

Impressive.

Just more condescending nonsense as per usual.

 

[tomtheblade]

That's exactly what I'm basing it on.
Until we beat someone of quality away from home there's no evidence to suggest we have the capacity to do it.

Broadly speaking I see your point - we're a good side but have struggled to get results away at the very top sides in the division, but what do you define as the 'capacity'?

Your reasoning seems to be that because we didn't do it last year, we don't have the ability to do it this year, but that doesn't follow. It's possible to make judgements and predictions based on factors other than just past results in the specific category that you mention. The strength of the squad, form guide, results at home vs top sides etc, can all give us a clue that we have the capacity, or ability, to win away from home at a top 10 side. I agree we haven't done it yet (or we may have, we'll see at the end of the season), but that doesn't mean we don't have the ability to do it. I think there's good reason to think we do.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

That touch of TC's might not look much to some people but it is simply magical the way he lets the ball roll up from his boot at precisely the right speed & height in order to caress the ball in the perfect spot for Woody to power it into the net.
Modern day commentators drive me mad going on about players "bringing the ball under their spell" when they do no such thing, & should be made to look at this clip so they can recognise true greatness when they see it.

Absolutely sublime and the kind of thing that often goes unnoticed by many .

In all the years I have been watching the game , I can think of only a few players who would have had the skill and vision to execute that piece of genius . Hagan and Bergkamp perhaps , but after that I'm struggling .

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Broadly speaking I see your point - we're a good side but have struggled to get results away at the very top sides in the division, but what do you define as the 'capacity'?

Your reasoning seems to be that because we didn't do it last year, we don't have the ability to do it this year, but that doesn't follow. It's possible to make judgements and predictions based on factors other than just past results in the specific category that you mention. The strength of the squad, form guide, results at home vs top sides etc, can all give us a clue that we have the capacity, or ability, to win away from home at a top 10 side. I agree we haven't done it yet (or we may have, we'll see at the end of the season), but that doesn't mean we don't have the ability to do it. I think there's good reason to think we do.

Thanks for a proper reply.

I do think we are looking stronger than we were last season. Egan and Norwood have been quality acquisitions and McGoldrick is definitely an upgrade on Donaldson. All in all excellent business by Mr. Wilder.

However, whisper it quietly, I think our opening fixtures have been kind to us and there are much tougher tests to come. The best two teams we have played in my opinion are Swansea and Boro and we were defeated by both. Battered by the latter in fact.

We've had a good start to the season but that's all it is. Same as last year. We won't get 25 points from our next 12 fixtures. I'm sorry but we just won't.

The good thing is that we now have a much more robust squad and this will help us later on in the season. We dropped off a cliff after Christmas last season but I can't see that happening this time around.

 

[tomtheblade]

Thanks for a proper reply.

I do think we are looking stronger than we were last season. Egan and Norwood have been quality acquisitions and McGoldrick is definitely an upgrade on Donaldson. All in all excellent business by Mr. Wilder.

However, whisper it quietly, I think our opening fixtures have been kind to us and there are much tougher tests to come. The best two teams we have played in my opinion are Swansea and Boro and we were defeated by both. Battered by the latter in fact.

We've had a good start to the season but that's all it is. Same as last year. We won't get 25 points from our next 12 fixtures. I'm sorry but we just won't.

The good thing is that we now have a much more robust squad and this will help us later on in the season. We dropped off a cliff after Christmas last season but I can't see that happening this time around.

Yeah, I think our most difficult tests this season are still ahead of us. I don't put too much stock in the two early losses as I think we would fare better if we were to play those fixtures with the players and team cohesion we have now.

It's interesting that last year we also had that run to the top of the league, but if you look at some of the teams we played in that run - Hull, Burton, Sunderland, Reading, Ipswich, Bolton, it's clear that it was at least partially down to a run of fairly kind fixtures. To balance that though, the results vs Wolves, Leeds and Wednesday were impressive, even if the latter two failed to finish high up the table, they were still difficult tests to overcome. Beating the teams you're expected to beat will take you a long way in this league, as many sides have quality players but are too inconsistent.

I do find it a weird quick that Wilders reign, by almost any standard you care to name, has been an amazing success, yet we have failed to beat the top sides away, as you mention. I do think it's a quirk though, and that it's only a matter of time before we get one of those types of results.

 

[spongebobblade]

We'll be 3rd or 4th.

We simply don't win away from home against decent teams.

Wasn’t the away clash at Leeds last year a match between two sides who were in form and up at the top of the league?
Seem to remember we didn’t do too badly in that one

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Wasn’t the away clash at Leeds last year a match between two sides who were in form and up at the top of the league?
Seem to remember we didn’t do too badly in that one

Leeds were shit last season.

That's why they finished 13th.

 

[ucandomagic]

Absolutely sublime and the kind of thing that often goes unnoticed by many .

In all the years I have been watching the game , I can think of only a few players who would have had the skill and vision to execute that piece of genius . Hagan and Bergkamp perhaps , but after that I'm struggling .

Pele - 1970 World Cup - very similar

Two of a Magic Kind

 

[spongebobblade]

Leeds were shit last season.

That's why they finished 13th.

But they were excellent at the time. You could argue that our victory over Villa was against a top side if Dean Smith gets them going then. The point being you can only beat what’s in front of you whether the opposition are in good form or not. Derby will fancy there chances. So will we. We played them off the park for 180 minutes last season but again, that means little this time around. Quietly confident.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

But they were excellent at the time.

No they weren't.

They'd just been slapped 3-1 by Cardiff and battered 3-0 by Wednesday.

 

[tomtheblade]

But they were excellent at the time. You could argue that our victory over Villa was against a top side if Dean Smith gets them going then. The point being you can only beat what’s in front of you whether the opposition are in good form or not. Derby will fancy there chances. So will we. We played them off the park for 180 minutes last season but again, that means little this time around. Quietly confident.

It's a salient point, and we're a good case study for this idea. We finished tenth last season so clearly were a decent side overall, but as we all know that doesn't tell the full story. Teams change throughout the season. When Fulham beat us at home we were in the automatic places and had looked very impressive. By the time Preston beat us in our last home game we were a diminished team, and our form had tailed off to that of a lower table side. One of these victories is more impressive than the other, but both Fulham and Preston played a team which finished in 10th place.

 

[spongebobblade]

No they weren't.

They'd just been slapped 3-1 by Cardiff and battered 3-0 by Wednesday.

Yes they were.
On the other foot they had just beaten Bristol City 3-0 away in the previous game and were 4th in the table
They WERE a decent team at the time whom we beat away from home. Fact.
They slumped as the season went on like ourselves

 

[LJBlade]

That's exactly what I'm basing it on.

I'll repeat it again. Last season we didn't beat any team that finished above us away from home (nine teams).

This season we have not yet beaten any team away from home who I believe will finish in the top nine.

What's not to understand?

Until we beat someone of quality away from home there's no evidence to suggest we have the capacity to do it.

Again, last season is irrelevant, we're a different team this year.

Which teams do you think will be in the top 9 (why 9?) at the end of the season? And who out of those have we failed to beat so far this season?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Again, last season is irrelevant, we're a different team this year.

It's not like we've overhauled the squad. Our starting eleven is still very similar to last season.

Stevens
O'Connell
Basham
Coutts
Fleck
Duffy
Sharp

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Which teams do you think will be in the top 9 (why 9?) at the end of the season?

In no particular order.

WBA
Middlesbrough
Stoke
Leeds
Swansea
Nottingham Forest
Brentford
Derby
Norwich

 

[LJBlade]

In no particular order.

WBA
Middlesbrough
Stoke
Leeds
Swansea
Nottingham Forest
Brentford
Derby
Norwich

So this season we've only managed to not beat one of the 'Top Teams' away from home and this therefore proves that we are unable to do so?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

So this season we've only managed to not beat one of the 'Top Teams' away from home and this therefore proves that we are unable to do so?

Why have you put top teams in apostrophes?

Do you disagree?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Yes they were.
On the other foot they had just beaten Bristol City 3-0 away in the previous game and were 4th in the table
They WERE a decent team at the time whom we beat away from home. Fact.
They slumped as the season went on like ourselves

The final table is the only true reflection of how good a team is. That's the whole point of it.

Bolton were 3rd when we beat them earlier in the season. They're now 16th and have only won one match since August.

Do you class the win over Bolton as a quality away win at one of the top teams in the division?

 

[LJBlade]

Why have you put top teams in apostrophes?

Do you disagree?

Because the classification of what a top team is seems to be a bit ambiguous. Apparently it's any team that finishes within the top 9 places.

Anyway, you didn't answer the question. Do you feel the one away game that our current team has played against the top teams is enough to support the statement that we don't beat the top teams? Especially considering that the game in question was played before we finished putting our team together?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Because the classification of what a top team is seems to be a bit ambiguous. Apparently it's any team that finishes within the top 9 places.

Anyway, you didn't answer the question. Do you feel the one away game that our current team has played against the top teams is enough to support the statement that we don't beat the top teams? Especially considering that the game in question was played before we finished putting our team together?

I'm basing it on the past two seasons because that's all we have to go on. The same thing happened in League One as well remember.

I'm not saying we won't get wins against some of the top teams this season, I think we probably will.

All I'm saying is that we haven't proved we can do it yet. That's why I'm not confident we'll beat Derby on Saturday.

 

[spongebobblade]

The final table is the only true reflection of how good a team is. That's the whole point of it.

Bolton were 3rd when we beat them earlier in the season. They're now 16th and have only won one match since August.

Do you class the win over Bolton as a quality away win at one of the top teams in the division?

The league table tells a different story as the season unfolds. Last season we were a quality side up to December, average thereafter. Teams play well at different stages of the season so you can only judge games on the oppositions current form and/or league table. The pigs beat Fulham away early last season. So what? Fulham had a shit start. You judge it as it happens.

 

[Karaoke Blade]

We'll draw and drop to second place.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

The OP said “predict the table after this weekend”, yet most of you are predicting it now! I’m going to wait until Monday.