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Just sharing a couple of bits of info after a personal e-mail crusade yesterday.
1. Had a response from FSF ([email protected]) who says she's working with supporter groups to provide comment back to SYP about what happened on Sunday. Sound like she's got plenty of stuff already but for those non-Tweeters like me (Philistines...) it's another way of raising the problems with someone who's interested.
2. Had a call from SWFC's Safety/Security bloke this morning as I e-mailed them to find out what happened with the turnstiles. He's claiming the club had no communication from SYP that trams had been stopped & 500+ Blades would be arriving late & all together. So they'd gone to normal post kick-off routine to close all but 2 turnstiles. Poor decision to do that as counting people in they knew that 500+ people hadn't arrived yet but again claimed they had "no idea where they were". Says they opened 2 more turnstiles as soon as they could get operators back to man them as they were watching the match! Apologised for the experience & says he would be taking the matter up with SYP as they're meeting to discuss in light of dirty weeds turning up on Sunday.
I'm not bothered about getting any money back. I just want the atrocious organisation & communication between SYP & SWFC to be called to task. Next e-mail (for what it's worth) will be to PCC for SYP. Then MP's for S2 & S6. Then Donald Trump as no doubt he'll have a view....
I am a just a, 'mild middle of the road kind of person' and have never really been a star basher, but I have to say Danny04 silence on this matter is fairly deafening.
In Danny04's defence, he has posted on Twitter this morning talking about it and has linked to the FSF_FairCop and SYP accounts also.
Just sharing a couple of bits of info after a personal e-mail crusade yesterday.
1. Had a response from FSF ([email protected]) who says she's working with supporter groups to provide comment back to SYP about what happened on Sunday. Sound like she's got plenty of stuff already but for those non-Tweeters like me (Philistines...) it's another way of raising the problems with someone who's interested.
2. Had a call from SWFC's Safety/Security bloke this morning as I e-mailed them to find out what happened with the turnstiles. He's claiming the club had no communication from SYP that trams had been stopped & 500+ Blades would be arriving late & all together. So they'd gone to normal post kick-off routine to close all but 2 turnstiles. Poor decision to do that as counting people in they knew that 500+ people hadn't arrived yet but again claimed they had "no idea where they were". Says they opened 2 more turnstiles as soon as they could get operators back to man them as they were watching the match! Apologised for the experience & says he would be taking the matter up with SYP as they're meeting to discuss in light of dirty weeds turning up on Sunday.
I'm not bothered about getting any money back. I just want the atrocious organisation & communication between SYP & SWFC to be called to task. Next e-mail (for what it's worth) will be to PCC for SYP. Then MP's for S2 & S6. Then Donald Trump as no doubt he'll have a view....
it was decided that fans would be segregated prior to the match and that the Blades fans would be marshalled together together at City Hall, Supertram would provide several special trams for those fans and they would be provided with a police escort to get them straight to Leppings Lane, non-stopping. The regular service trams were given time to get ahead, so that it would be a clear run.
There were, I believe, three special trams sent out from Nunnery Depot to City Hall to pick up said fans. Normally with heavy loadings Supertram just let the fans get on - when they've decided the tram is full enough then the doors are closed and they set off. Not today - the police were forcing fans onto the tram in a bid to make it as full as possible and get as many people up to the ground as possible. There were approximately 600 fans on the first tram.
Once they'd filled the tram up, the police then decided that that perhaps they should have some coppers on board. So they then pulled some of the fans off the tram so they could get on board. At this point the doors were shut and the tram moved forward to allow the tram behind to pull into the platform. The process was repeated.
Now I doubt very much you've been on a tram with 599 other people, I doubt you've been on a tram with that many other people when it's 30+ inside the tram. I'm sure you are aware however that there's no air conditioning on the tram, or any 'fans' except for the heating. So when the tram isn't moving there is no air circulation and it gets very hot indeed.
This loading occurred at City Hall approximately 12:00.
The first tram was initially held for around 10 minutes, before the police escort set off. They were escorted down West Street, then when they got to the junction before Shalesmoor there were police motorcyclists waiting for the trams to continue the escort. However the police forgot there was more than one tram - so the first tram was held on Infirmary Road for several minutes while the trams behind got their signals and caught up. The plan was that the police would hold traffic to allow all three trams to pass through Shalesmoor quickly.
As you can imagine at this point the temperature on board the tram was very uncomfortable, there was no communication between the police and Supertram and therefore no communication with the fans on board.
When the convoy got going again they managed to get as far as Bamforth Street before the police held them again. By this point a lady at the rear of the first tram had fainted. With no way to contact the driver and/or anybody else the people on board the tram tried to open the doors. Eventually somebody pulled the emergency door release and the fans poured out of the tram. The lady who had collapsed was treated at the side of the road while YAS treated her.
Meanwhile SYP started to escort the fans off the first tram towards Hillsborough whilst moving the now empty tram and the two trams following behind the fans.
Just prior to the Interchange the police then decided to block the road off with police vans, hold the blades fans in one place until the riot police turned up. They then proceeded to put the fans back onto the first tram. Now bear in mind that a) the Supertram staff on the ground were telling the police that the doors were damaged and it wasn't safe to load the fans back onto the tram and b) the tram was not in a platform this wasn't a particularly safe thing to do.
SYP continued to load the fans onto the tram, with police officers at each door manhandling fans onto the tram. Many of the blades fans were protesting against this and were being forced onto the tram. The driver of the tram was instructed to close the doors of the tram by SYP while fans were still being forced aboard. At one point a police officer was holding one set of doors open while another was trying to close then. This resulted in, I believe, a broken set of doors.
This was approximately 12:55, so the majority of fans had been on the tram for nearly an hour. On the second tram there was a pregnant lady who was feeling ill - so whilst SYP were loading the first tram back up they were TAKING people off the second tram. (Are you starting to see how bloody chaotic the whole thing was?).
They then attempted to set off again, but of course the fans on the first tram who had been riled up and aggravated by SYP were confused as to why they had been forced back onto a tram and the supporters behind were being let off. Of course at this point the doors of the first tram are damaged - so the tram can't actually move!
It was utter carnage, and had SYP just moved the tram convoy as quickly as possible through Hillsborough the worst damage may have been a broken window or two. Instead the whole plan unravelled, they had to bring in vans of riot police and NPAS Carr Gate.
I stand by my belief that SYP caused the majority of the trouble through their poor planning, poor communication and poor decision making.
In the interests of full disclosure I have previously worked for Supertram
F#$k that just go straight to kim jong un he'll test one of his missiles on the rust bucket.
There was a piece on this yesterday afternoon as another poster already pointed out on the other thread, highlighting the first-hand footage a United fan took: http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/polic...fans-miss-steel-city-derby-kick-off-1-8771787
F#$k that just go straight to kim jong un he'll test one of his missiles on the rust bucket.
In Danny04's defence, he has posted on Twitter this morning talking about it and has linked to the FSF_FairCop and SYP accounts also.
Is it worth pointing out that Danny04 is a Sports Reporter and this is a News story
The Shoreham View vlog on another thread has all the evidence needed. This is extremely serious in light of what has happened before. The fact no one was hurt is a miracle.
In other news:-
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/the-s...-london-road-after-steel-city-derby-1-8771224
The Star's fault for reporting it?
Or the usual moronic behaviour from some of our brave "lads".
Having previously worked for Stagecoach Supertram do you know how many passengers one Supertram is permitted to carry? I'm not sure if there is any numbers on the interior or exterior as with buses but a bit of research tells me the Siemans-Duewag Supertram is permitted to carry 86 seated and 155 standees a total of 241 passengers. The Police forcing around 500-600 football fans into one unit is seriously overloading that vehicle which is frightening when it has to go down St Phillips Rd a steep decent with a sharp bend at the bottom. Think the Croydon tram derailment 7 killed 58 injured out of around 70 on the tram.it was decided that fans would be segregated prior to the match and that the Blades fans would be marshalled together together at City Hall, Supertram would provide several special trams for those fans and they would be provided with a police escort to get them straight to Leppings Lane, non-stopping. The regular service trams were given time to get ahead, so that it would be a clear run.
There were, I believe, three special trams sent out from Nunnery Depot to City Hall to pick up said fans. Normally with heavy loadings Supertram just let the fans get on - when they've decided the tram is full enough then the doors are closed and they set off. Not today - the police were forcing fans onto the tram in a bid to make it as full as possible and get as many people up to the ground as possible. There were approximately 600 fans on the first tram.
Once they'd filled the tram up, the police then decided that that perhaps they should have some coppers on board. So they then pulled some of the fans off the tram so they could get on board. At this point the doors were shut and the tram moved forward to allow the tram behind to pull into the platform. The process was repeated.
Now I doubt very much you've been on a tram with 599 other people, I doubt you've been on a tram with that many other people when it's 30+ inside the tram. I'm sure you are aware however that there's no air conditioning on the tram, or any 'fans' except for the heating. So when the tram isn't moving there is no air circulation and it gets very hot indeed.
This loading occurred at City Hall approximately 12:00.
The first tram was initially held for around 10 minutes, before the police escort set off. They were escorted down West Street, then when they got to the junction before Shalesmoor there were police motorcyclists waiting for the trams to continue the escort. However the police forgot there was more than one tram - so the first tram was held on Infirmary Road for several minutes while the trams behind got their signals and caught up. The plan was that the police would hold traffic to allow all three trams to pass through Shalesmoor quickly.
As you can imagine at this point the temperature on board the tram was very uncomfortable, there was no communication between the police and Supertram and therefore no communication with the fans on board.
When the convoy got going again they managed to get as far as Bamforth Street before the police held them again. By this point a lady at the rear of the first tram had fainted. With no way to contact the driver and/or anybody else the people on board the tram tried to open the doors. Eventually somebody pulled the emergency door release and the fans poured out of the tram. The lady who had collapsed was treated at the side of the road while YAS treated her.
Meanwhile SYP started to escort the fans off the first tram towards Hillsborough whilst moving the now empty tram and the two trams following behind the fans.
Just prior to the Interchange the police then decided to block the road off with police vans, hold the blades fans in one place until the riot police turned up. They then proceeded to put the fans back onto the first tram. Now bear in mind that a) the Supertram staff on the ground were telling the police that the doors were damaged and it wasn't safe to load the fans back onto the tram and b) the tram was not in a platform this wasn't a particularly safe thing to do.
SYP continued to load the fans onto the tram, with police officers at each door manhandling fans onto the tram. Many of the blades fans were protesting against this and were being forced onto the tram. The driver of the tram was instructed to close the doors of the tram by SYP while fans were still being forced aboard. At one point a police officer was holding one set of doors open while another was trying to close then. This resulted in, I believe, a broken set of doors.
This was approximately 12:55, so the majority of fans had been on the tram for nearly an hour. On the second tram there was a pregnant lady who was feeling ill - so whilst SYP were loading the first tram back up they were TAKING people off the second tram. (Are you starting to see how bloody chaotic the whole thing was?).
They then attempted to set off again, but of course the fans on the first tram who had been riled up and aggravated by SYP were confused as to why they had been forced back onto a tram and the supporters behind were being let off. Of course at this point the doors of the first tram are damaged - so the tram can't actually move!
It was utter carnage, and had SYP just moved the tram convoy as quickly as possible through Hillsborough the worst damage may have been a broken window or two. Instead the whole plan unravelled, they had to bring in vans of riot police and NPAS Carr Gate.
I stand by my belief that SYP caused the majority of the trouble through their poor planning, poor communication and poor decision making.
In the interests of full disclosure I have previously worked for Supertram
If the police had any interest in crowd safety, they would have escorted those fans to the ground in a timely manner, to ensure they arrived in time for kick off. Their actions were designed to provoke agravasion and trouble. Late arrivals crushing to enter the ground have caused a disaster in the past. It’s absolutely disgusting how the police handled the situation.On that Vlog, the filmer was asking civil questions of the police who quoted Section 3 of some public order act (wasn't really paying attention) and then talked about threats and sterile areas. I thought the crowd were very well behaved under the circumstances.
In other news:-
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/the-s...-london-road-after-steel-city-derby-1-8771224
The Star's fault for reporting it?
Or the usual moronic behaviour from some of our brave "lads".
One doesn't level the other out.
No reason why the London Road incident doesn't deserve publicity and naming and shaming. SYP seem to be getting off lightly though.
As for Danny's Twitter, those views are I believe his own, not those of the Star who were quite happy to quote CS Morleys smug "success" report yet little else from a different perspective.
In other news:-
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/the-s...-london-road-after-steel-city-derby-1-8771224
The Star's fault for reporting it?
Or the usual moronic behaviour from some of our brave "lads".
True but do you not think the two stories might not be linked in anyway?
If a fraction of our supporters didn't behave like animals maybe all our supporters wouldn't be treated like animals?
Classy.
True but do you not think the two stories might not be linked in anyway?
If a fraction of our supporters didn't behave like animals maybe all our supporters wouldn't be treated like animals?
True but do you not think the two stories might not be linked in anyway?
If a fraction of our supporters didn't behave like animals maybe all our supporters wouldn't be treated like animals?
Your homework is correct, bloody dangerous.Having previously worked for Stagecoach Supertram do you know how many passengers one Supertram is permitted to carry? I'm not sure if there is any numbers on the interior or exterior as with buses but a bit of research tells me the Siemans-Duewag Supertram is permitted to carry 86 seated and 155 standees a total of 241 passengers. The Police forcing around 500-600 football fans into one unit is seriously overloading that vehicle which is frightening when it has to go down St Phillips Rd a steep decent with a sharp bend at the bottom. Think the Croydon tram derailment 7 killed 58 injured out of around 70 on the tram.
The link is United. But the people on the trams caused no trouble. We weren't animals. We were treat like them though We were herded on in numbers vastly higher than for safety concerns as has been stated in an act which some shineyarse behind a desk calls a success. Being there, the view of the Police actually in the coaches wasn't the same as the brasses back slapping success claim.
I wasn't on London Road but accept what Ive read and seen in the video. No issue at all. Maybe you could believe the reports from Blades and the video evidence rather than oh butting and seeming to believe that drunks acting up after the match means other fans hours earlier are rightly treated as scum.
Had a call from SWFC's Safety/Security bloke this morning as I e-mailed them to find out what happened with the turnstiles. He's claiming the club had no communication from SYP that trams had been stopped & 500+ Blades would be arriving late & all together. So they'd gone to normal post kick-off routine to close all but 2 turnstiles. Poor decision to do that as counting people in they knew that 500+ people hadn't arrived yet but again claimed they had "no idea where they were". Says they opened 2 more turnstiles as soon as they could get operators back to man them as they were watching the match! Apologised for the experience & says he would be taking the matter up with SYP as they're meeting to discuss in light of dirty weeds turning up on Sunday.
@Danny04 has understandably claimed that the Derby day crush is beyond his remit, but many Star sports journalists weighed in on the Ched debate. Any response to my opening post and this debate in general Danny?
Classy.
@Danny04 has understandably claimed that the Derby day crush is beyond his remit, but many Star sports journalists weighed in on the Ched debate. Any response to my opening post and this debate in general Danny?
https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.p...vans-once-again-ignored-by-media.58349/page-2
Why hasn't the Star condemned the chants of the Wednesday fans re Evans on Sunday?
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