Pre-Match Police Issues - Bit of an Update

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Danny04 said:
I've no idea. I haven't personally because it gives attention to the issue that Ched doesn't want, and then we'd be writing the same story every week. I didn't condemn it when it was sung by Barnsley or Norwich fans either.
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Thanks for this response. It's clear that this could be alternatively read as: It's ok to condemn Blades fans chants/actions, but
when it comes to Wednesday fans chants/actions.... Then we come back to bias.
I'd disagree with your "writing the same story". This is the untold story, or at least the untold part of the story. We did get it pretty bad over the Ched debacle, as a club/fanbase/staff/Ched as an individual.As for "what Ched wants"; when has that ever been of the remotest concern to anyone?
 
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Does anybody on here have any video whilst on a tram to the game ? The cctv is not for public viewing until a formal complaint to ipc has been logged.So the more video the better. This needs taking further but i simply do not have,the time to pursue this.
 
I hate all kinds of violence linked to the club, whether it's one pissed up teenager taking a swing at someone or a mob of wannabe hoolis - as been discussed several times on here and I've stated my position clearly.
There is another principle here though, which is that if the police were to treat all black men as potential criminals because they have had trouble with one black thug, the world would be up in arms. Why is it right to continue to treat thousands of football fans as if they are all from a 1970s firm?
 
nopigfansintown said:
Thanks for this response. It's clear that this could be alternatively read as: It's ok to condemn Blades fans chants/actions, but
when it comes to Wednesday fans chants/actions.... Then we come back to bias.
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Alternatively read what you like, you've clearly already made your mind up
 
Sothall_Blade said:
I don't think it's right that all our fans our treated like scum.
I think it's an unfortunate bi-product of some of our fans behaving like scum on a regular basis.

Can you say for certain that none of the 100+ known troublemakers mentioned by the police weren't amongst the people on those trams?
They said they were going to monitor those groups carefully and maybe that's what they were doing?
I'm genuinely sorry that everybody suffers because of the criminal actions of a few.

I fully endorse LoughboroBlade's earlier post "If as much energy from outrage over media coverage of our moron element was channelled towards rooting out said moron element from our club, we'd be all better for it".


P.S. I also agree that it sounds like an almighty cock up by the Police and Wednesday with regard to cramming people on trams, making them late for the match and then closing the turnstiles. I'm not defending any of that and the The Star News reporters should be pursuing it.

I'm just saying that our fans could have been allowed to make their own way to the stadium in their own good time if only there weren't idiots on both sides intent on beating each other up.
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What I can say is that there was no trouble either on the tram that I was on, none I believe on the other and none in the Bankers Draft when l was in. I'm certain that the many police around would have spotted and monitored at least some of the 100 you mention but that bypassed me as well.

Almost everyone set off with plenty of time toget to the ground. Only one thing stopped them, SYP, with no regard for safety. That's a fact.

Imagine a scenario where it's nice Autumn lunchtime on a Saturday before the match. You're wearing a United shirt and have a bottle of Corona in your hand. There's a bit of shouting a few yards away and you stand up to see what's happening with a few others when all of a sudden a copper tasers you. When you come round, trying to hide the fact that you'd pissed yourself, you ask why the hell did you do that, the copper says, "well you're drinking, you're wearing a United shirt and we've had trouble with you lot before, don't you read the Star?" Exaggeration aside, would that be fair?

One other point, where are all the photos/videos of all these Pig hooligans in charge of Hillsborough Corner to such an extent the Police took an hour to disperse them? Where were they when we got to the ground? Did the Star have a photographer near their fans?
 
Danny04 said:
Alternatively read what you like, you've clearly already made your mind up
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No mind made up, just doing my best to analyse the empirical evidence available. Many articles in the Star condemning Evans and United's relationship since he was first accused of rape, up to his eventual resigning. Including the analysis of chants. A few possibilities for the Star to bring balance, insomuch as a "not guilty man" was being abused on his way to, and at work, not taken at all seriously by the Star. What would I be expected to glean from that?
 
nopigfansintown said:
No mind made up, just doing my best to analyse the empirical evidence available. Many articles in the Star condemning Evans and United's relationship since he was first accused of rape, up to his eventual resigning.
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nopigfansintown if you'd like a reasoned debate on this subject, please feel free to PM me. No interest in it playing out in kangaroo court. All the best.
 
Danny04 said:
nopigfansintown if you'd like a reasoned debate on this subject, please feel free to PM me. No interest in it playing out in kangaroo court. All the best.
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Happy to leave it there, if that's your wish. The point is that it was a public debate - visible to a public forum. As for the "kangaroo court", that's beneath you and a cheap shot, if you don't mind my saying so.This was/is an open court: far more transparent than the personal messages you've offered; you had free reign to offer your counterpoints. This was ancient democracy, in which our point of views would have been analysed by a jury of our peers (i.e. those reading this board).No hiding place. I can only conclude that you're aware that the overwhelming evidence was in my favour and have chosen to disengage for that reason.
Best wishes to you too.
 
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Don't have a video but the picture shows how packed it was. It was ridiculously hot.


The photo below is just after kick off.

Missed both goals.

It's taken less time to get to the likes of bury, oldham, rochdale etc than it did to get from the city to that dump on Sunday.

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Glyn Hodges left foot said:
Does anybody on here have any video whilst on a tram to the game ? The cctv is not for public viewing until a formal complaint to ipc has been logged.So the more video the better. This needs taking further but i simply do not have,the time to pursue this.
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Sean Thornton said:
The link is United. But the people on the trams caused no trouble. We weren't animals. We were treat like them though We were herded on in numbers vastly higher than for safety concerns as has been stated in an act which some shineyarse behind a desk calls a success. Being there, the view of the Police actually in the coaches wasn't the same as the brasses back slapping success claim.

I wasn't on London Road but accept what Ive read and seen in the video. No issue at all. Maybe you could believe the reports from Blades and the video evidence rather than oh butting and seeming to believe that drunks acting up after the match means other fans hours earlier are rightly treated as scum.
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Mates son was on the tram and said a couple of coppers shrugged their shoulders at him as if to say they had no idea what was happening, and looked as frustrated as the fans.
 
S64 Blade said:
Another question that needs to be fully addressed is how do they plan on tackling the leg at Bramall Lane in January.

From an outsider's perspective, Bramall Lane seems a much harder place to police than Hillsborough given (1) Bramall Lane being narrow and 'tunnel like' (no pun intended on the pig fans usual method of getting to the ground ;) ) (2) There's more adjoining streets outside the away entrance to manage and (3) the close proximity to the city centre means being able to escort a group of fans is much harder as there's more access points.
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Best play it behind closed doors then.
On a Tuesday afternoon.
In secret.
Just trying to help! :)
 
nopigfansintown said:
Happy to leave it there, if that's your wish. The point is that it was a public debate - visible to a public forum. As for the "kangaroo court", that's beneath you and a cheap shot, if you don't mind my saying so.This was/is an open court: far more transparent than the personal messages you've offered; you had free reign to offer your counterpoints. This was ancient democracy, in which our point of views would have been analysed by a jury of our peers (i.e. those reading this board).No hiding place. I can only conclude that you're aware that the overwhelming evidence was in my favour and have chosen to disengage for that reason.
Best wishes to you too.
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Not really, no. I'm on here on a personal capacity and, once again, have been dragged into a thread to explain decisions made, or not made, above me. I'm not a spokesperson for my company and can't answer for why others have, or haven't done, anything. Any points made will be jumped on by others and, to be honest, I can't be arsed with it. I'd much rather spend the time watching GIFs on repeat of Duffy's goal and Brooksy's nutmeg, below.


 

Glyn Hodges left foot said:
I have twitter dm’d fsf a full account of what i saw. Hopefully they can speak on our behalf as they are much more likely to get somewhere. Enough is enough. Things need to change and lessons learned.
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Thankyou. Greatly appreciated.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
I don't think it's right that all our fans our treated like scum.
I think it's an unfortunate bi-product of some of our fans behaving like scum on a regular basis.

Can you say for certain that none of the 100+ known troublemakers mentioned by the police weren't amongst the people on those trams?
They said they were going to monitor those groups carefully and maybe that's what they were doing?
I'm genuinely sorry that everybody suffers because of the criminal actions of a few.

I fully endorse LoughboroBlade's earlier post "If as much energy from outrage over media coverage of our moron element was channelled towards rooting out said moron element from our club, we'd be all better for it".


P.S. I also agree that it sounds like an almighty cock up by the Police and Wednesday with regard to cramming people on trams, making them late for the match and then closing the turnstiles. I'm not defending any of that and the The Star News reporters should be pursuing it.

I'm just saying that our fans could have been allowed to make their own way to the stadium in their own good time if only there weren't idiots on both sides intent on beating each other up.
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Sothall , try reading Phil Scratons " Hillsborough : The Truth " . I cannot recommend it highly enough .
 
Everyone who was affected should really push for refund:

Imagine them not only getting humiliated at home but then having to pay a load of Blades for the privalidge.
 
PeteBlade said:
Everyone who was affected should really push for refund:

Imagine them not only getting humiliated at home but then having to pay a load of Blades for the privalidge.
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I know what you mean but for me not about money. It's about SYP realising they can't treat decent fans like shite & get away with it.
Might sound like I'm on a moral high-horse & maybe I am. Still - I saw 4 goals, watched the mighty Blades ruin the pigs & am loving the feeling. Peace. Out.
 
I'm not defending the actions of the police here, as I was caught up after the game and the lack of public transport and the insistence that every one got on a tram was majorly inconvenient. But, as harsh as it may sound, I only have so much sympathy for those who missed kick off. Like most other blades (and many of a pork persuasion) I had a few beer in town before making my way up to the ground. But we realised that given the volume of people, and huge police presence that getting to the ground would take an age. So at 11 am we set off on foot, and as a consequence were in the away end with around 50 minutes to spare. Sure I wanted another beer and would've loved another hour in the boozer but by setting off early we saw no trouble, had a leisurely stroll and had nothing but pleasant encounters with the police. It comes down to priorities; beer or football? Football always wins for me. I'm sure many of you will criticise me and claim you 'left with plenty of time to spare', but it was derby day (with a 10k thrown in for good measure), you have to expect major traffic and transport issues. Sure there were some major failings, but as football fans we always put added pressure onto the infrastructure by all aiming to get to the stadium 10 or 15 minutes before kick off. I'm sure some who missed it were unfortunate to get caught up, but I guarantee that some will be those same fans who don't appear at home games until a few minutes gone.
 
I should coco said:
You have to ask if it was actually a deliberate tactic by SYP to show who is 'boss'. By demonstrating their force to hold the fans back and then deliberately making them queue, they rubbed the Blades' noses in it.

They had all the radios and CCTV to avoid this, but chose not to. Ask yourself why this might be?

It really wouldn't surprise me to find out that this was actually planned in advance, then the same old diversion lies afterwards to mask it.
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Definitely pre planned tactic so all the lads from town 500 didn't arrive at the same time as the bouncing
 
Foody said:
I'm not defending the actions of the police here, as I was caught up after the game and the lack of public transport and the insistence that every one got on a tram was majorly inconvenient. But, as harsh as it may sound, I only have so much sympathy for those who missed kick off. Like most other blades (and many of a pork persuasion) I had a few beer in town before making my way up to the ground. But we realised that given the volume of people, and huge police presence that getting to the ground would take an age. So at 11 am we set off on foot, and as a consequence were in the away end with around 50 minutes to spare. Sure I wanted another beer and would've loved another hour in the boozer but by setting off early we saw no trouble, had a leisurely stroll and had nothing but pleasant encounters with the police. It comes down to priorities; beer or football? Football always wins for me. I'm sure many of you will criticise me and claim you 'left with plenty of time to spare', but it was derby day (with a 10k thrown in for good measure), you have to expect major traffic and transport issues. Sure there were some major failings, but as football fans we always put added pressure onto the infrastructure by all aiming to get to the stadium 10 or 15 minutes before kick off. I'm sure some who missed it were unfortunate to get caught up, but I guarantee that some will be those same fans who don't appear at home games until a few minutes gone.
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See where you're coming from mate but plenty that were held up left with more than enough time.

Some got off well before Hillsborough Corner and walked it in time. Don't think it's unreasonable for those staying on, no matter how crammed, that they could expect to get off down from Park Hotel in plenty of time to get in.
 
I've not read all of this thread so apologies if this point has been made....


I thought attitudes about football fans were supposed to have changed, as it had been realised that herding people around like calfs bound for France dehumanised them, encouraging an invasion mob style mentality that wasn't helpful to crowd control.

Stewards were more heavily used, the approach to games changed.

Clubs were forced to make stadia all seater, And went to greater lengths to improve the "customer experience" away fans n all. Some might even refer to it as the gentrification of the experience. Prawn sandwich brigade.

All because of you know what.

Yet here we are again, the south Yorkshire police, leppers fucking lane, supertram, And a lack of basic organisation and planning.

For fucks sake
 
Danny04 said:
Not really, no. I'm on here on a personal capacity and, once again, have been dragged into a thread to explain decisions made, or not made, above me. I'm not a spokesperson for my company and can't answer for why others have, or haven't done, anything. Any points made will be jumped on by others and, to be honest, I can't be arsed with it. I'd much rather spend the time watching GIFs on repeat of Duffy's goal and Brooksy's nutmeg, below.


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Fair enough.If the reason was/is those above you, your reasoning makes complete sense. We all have those above us, and have to be careful about what we say and where we say them.Cheers.
 
Valleyblade said:
I thought attitudes about football fans were supposed to have changed, as it had been realised that herding people around like calfs bound for France dehumanised them, encouraging an invasion mob style mentality that wasn't helpful to crowd control.
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They have generally but unfortunately the culture within SYP hasn't changed. They're a lost cause and It's about time they were disbanded and merged with West Yorkshire Police into West Riding Police.
 

Sorry for the basic question...why were stewards preventing fans from entering the sty when the turnstiles are presumably bar code operated?
 
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