Potential formation change required soon?

[RossingtonBlade]

The majority of our success since late 2016 has been largely down to the quality of attacking midfielders we’ve had on our books.

In the past 8 seasons we’ve played a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-2-1 formation in 7 of those.

In them 7 seasons, we have had great attacking midfielders, such as Duffy, Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee.

In the Wilder era (League 1 & Championship only) we played 3-5-2 with an attacking midfielder (Duffy) who contributed greatly in our rise to the Prem. We had a player who would run at defences, have that pace on the counter and find that killer pass to open up defences. But we also had alternative attacking options with the use of our wing backs contributing greatly to the goals by scoring a lot themselves and also putting good deliveries into the box. We also had Fleck being that box to box midfield engine doing his bit too to support the attacks. Then we also had the likes of O’Connell & Basham overlapping the wing backs and creating another attacking option of an overload on the wings which created a lot of space for Duffy to pick the ball in dangerous areas and hurt teams. This made it very difficult for defences to prevent us scoring as we were very versatile in our attacking approach.

The only time we didn’t play with an attacking midfielder was in the 2019/20 campaign finishing 9th in the Prem, where we had a flat 3 midfield which usually consisted of Fleck, Norwood & Lundstram. But we still had the overlapping centre halfs and pretty decent wing backs contributing a lot plus Lundstram making late runs and getting important goals. The reason for the flat 3 shape was because if we lost the ball high up the pitch, we would still have plenty of players back to ensure we weren’t prone to counter attacks against better opposition.

The relegation covid season was a complete disaster from start to finish, since O’Connell was injured from the off, our identity disappeared rapidly and our unique way of playing was no more. There were still a few glimpses of overlapping centre halfs but nowhere near the amount Oconnell & Basham we’re doing. The midfield was a disgrace and there was no ball carrier in the side leading to McGoldrick having to do two roles at the same time. Was all too simple and easy to defend against as there was a lack of options.

Since we got relegated, under Slav & Hecky it has been not as enjoyable to watch prior to covid (even though we finished 5th and 2nd). We have stopped the overlapping centre halfs completely and our midfield has been pretty reserved. We have in the previous two seasons relied on Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee for any sort of attacking quality. When they didn’t feature, we looked void of ideas and a purpose. Would it kill for players to move into space instead of standing behind the opposition players? It has become too predictable, too slow and too easy for oppositions to defend against. The style actually hampers at this moment in time as we have no way of attacking with a purpose as that is literally the only way we have broken down sides in the past 2 seasons.

We have got to get an attacking midfielder in in the next 24hrs otherwise we will have serious problems this season. We need more urgency, more people being brave with the ball and carrying the ball forward with a purpose in mind. I fear the we ain’t going to unlock any defences if we keep playing walking, side to side football or boot it up to the two academy players up top in the Premier League. We need a range of attacking options to do anything this season. Currently we have very little to none.

After all this said. I have no idea what formation we could potentially even think about using with the players we have but it has gone really stale on the pitch for us and a change in formation might be something Heckingbottom needs to consider.

 

[John Cutsbushes]

Not happening
Close thread

 

[Keen Blade]

There isn't room in Hecky's brain for a change of formation.
The poor chap has his hands full trying to cope with having the rug pulled from under his feet halfway through the window - having to change his targets due to this and then more injuries.
Basically he's been shafted.
Our transfer window has been shit so far - can it be rescued tomorrow ?
We need minimum :
A big powerful CF for Archer to play-off (he had Akpom last season) - otherwise it wasn't worth signing him.
A L-footed MF who can beat a man and carry the ball up the L side and create stuff - otherwise we have nothing going down that side and we'll be so easy to defend against.
Looks like one domestic loan and one foreign loan , unless we find millions down the back of the sofa.

 

[PokerBlade]

We don't have any recognised wingers at the club. That rules out most of our options even if we wanted to change.

 

[YES Blade]

The squad has been built to suit our current formation, so we if we try to change things too drastically then it’ll be a repeat of what happened under Slav.

 

[S40BLADE]

It is a well-known fact that professional footballers cannot be successfully coached into using other formations... #

 

[Charlieblade]

Hecky picked up the 5-3-2 formation when he was aPointed manager full time. The players he inherited were used to that scenario, and got the club promoted (eventually, using that formation.

With so many new players arriving, an opportunity exists to utilize players, and adapt the system to suit them, rather than the other way around.

The current system requires a great deal of box to box effort from most players, so adapting unfit, late arrivals is taking too long!

Too late in the day to change the system now, even if Macca arrives!

 

[Blade.com]

It’s certainly going to take some time to get this team organised into any formation. The thing I noticed from the Lincoln game was how light weight we looked physically,especially when Mcburnie got subbed at half time. And by the sounds of things McAtee could be returning, not big in stature. We could be looking at getting steam rolled a few times this season. Still,we can always look forward to Roy’s View from, “ We got bullied and kicked to death by a dirty Northern football club”. Bring it on.

 

[ATL Recs]

Hecky picked up the 5-3-2 formation when he was aPointed manager full time. The players he inherited were used to that scenario, and got the club promoted (eventually, using that formation.

With so many new players arriving, an opportunity exists to utilize players, and adapt the system to suit them, rather than the other way around.

The current system requires a great deal of box to box effort from most players, so adapting unfit, late arrivals is taking too long!

Too late in the day to change the system now, even if Macca arrives!

Hecky was using the formation with the kids before he took over from Wilder it was ingrained into the club through all levels

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

We don't need a new formation, we need a change in approach in the existing formation. We don't have enough off ball movement. I've said it countless times on here, we play Subbuteo.

Players run into space the stop and wait for the player with the ball to give it to them. By the time they get it they're already being closed down and have to get rid of it resulting in

A) a back pass
B) the pass cannoning off an opponents ankles as they try to pass through them like lunch break playground football
C) the player trying to run with the ball but running straight into an opponent

All of these break down our own attacks and make it easy for opponents to drop back in number and fill the spaces between the defence and midfield. By the time we do try to get forward we're crowded out by our own doing. The main time we see us pass ahead of a team mate is when players just hoof it.

We rely heavily on crosses into the box and yet when you watch us, 90% of crosses go inside the 6 yard box and not between the 18 yard box and 6 yard box. These are normally along the ground or at knee height. As a result the majority get cleared up easily by the goalkeeper or defence. If we do somehow score from these then it's normally a scrappy goal from a goalmouth scramble as the initial shot normally goes straight at a defender or straight at the keeper.

We are too static and too predictable and essentially we become the oppositions best defence as we break down our own attacks. Player take too many extra touches and are hesitant, when they need to be clinical. If the ball rolls in front of you and you have a clear sight of goal then shoot. An early shot can catch the keeper off guard. An extra touch gives them time to close the angles or defenders time to get into position to block the shot, which is what normally happens.

This is why Duffy, McAtee and Ndiaye were so effective, as they made off ball runs or ran with the ball, dragging defenders out of position and creating space for others to exploit, or they shot when they had a sight on goal.

We seldom see players passing into space ahead of team mates for them to run onto. We seldom see players keeping the ball and running with it to create space by dragging players out of position, and we seldom see players put good crosses into the box from the byline into good areas of the 18 yard box. Most are low on the ground or hoofed high aimlessly into the box. You can very rarely work out who they were trying to pick out as they just seem to be hit and hope.

One other area for improvement is that Hecky needs to stop having so much faith in his system and tactics and make preemptive subs instead of reactive. Against City it was obvious that they were going to score. They had 15 shots in the first half and 11 shots in the 18 minutes before they scored. He made his first sub 6 minutes after they scored. In his post match comments he said he couldn't make subs at 0-0. That tells me that he was unwilling to change things and felt it was working. Whilst arguably at 0-0, yes it was working, it was also obvious that they were going to score as they were upping the pressure and we needed to do something to slow them down and reduce the pressure. That was pure naivety on Hecky's part, a criticism I've often had of him in the past. Last season he made many subs far too late and they were often baffling.

Hecky also needs to grow a pair and be prepared to drop his favourites if they're playing shite. He plays players when they're out of form and not playing well consistently. This encourages complacency.

These aren't big changes but they're often hampered by Hecky's possession safety ball. He's a good manager but overly cautious and in the Premier League you have to occasionally throw caution to the wind and take the shackles off. Look at Sunday. Once City scored and Hecky abandoned plan A we suddenly took the game to them, had chances on goal and scored.

 

[straight_outta_compton]

The majority of our success since late 2016 has been largely down to the quality of attacking midfielders we’ve had on our books.

In the past 8 seasons we’ve played a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-2-1 formation in 7 of those.

In them 7 seasons, we have had great attacking midfielders, such as Duffy, Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee.

In the Wilder era (League 1 & Championship only) we played 3-5-2 with an attacking midfielder (Duffy) who contributed greatly in our rise to the Prem. We had a player who would run at defences, have that pace on the counter and find that killer pass to open up defences. But we also had alternative attacking options with the use of our wing backs contributing greatly to the goals by scoring a lot themselves and also putting good deliveries into the box. We also had Fleck being that box to box midfield engine doing his bit too to support the attacks. Then we also had the likes of O’Connell & Basham overlapping the wing backs and creating another attacking option of an overload on the wings which created a lot of space for Duffy to pick the ball in dangerous areas and hurt teams. This made it very difficult for defences to prevent us scoring as we were very versatile in our attacking approach.

The only time we didn’t play with an attacking midfielder was in the 2019/20 campaign finishing 9th in the Prem, where we had a flat 3 midfield which usually consisted of Fleck, Norwood & Lundstram. But we still had the overlapping centre halfs and pretty decent wing backs contributing a lot plus Lundstram making late runs and getting important goals. The reason for the flat 3 shape was because if we lost the ball high up the pitch, we would still have plenty of players back to ensure we weren’t prone to counter attacks against better opposition.

The relegation covid season was a complete disaster from start to finish, since O’Connell was injured from the off, our identity disappeared rapidly and our unique way of playing was no more. There were still a few glimpses of overlapping centre halfs but nowhere near the amount Oconnell & Basham we’re doing. The midfield was a disgrace and there was no ball carrier in the side leading to McGoldrick having to do two roles at the same time. Was all too simple and easy to defend against as there was a lack of options.

Since we got relegated, under Slav & Hecky it has been not as enjoyable to watch prior to covid (even though we finished 5th and 2nd). We have stopped the overlapping centre halfs completely and our midfield has been pretty reserved. We have in the previous two seasons relied on Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee for any sort of attacking quality. When they didn’t feature, we looked void of ideas and a purpose. Would it kill for players to move into space instead of standing behind the opposition players? It has become too predictable, too slow and too easy for oppositions to defend against. The style actually hampers at this moment in time as we have no way of attacking with a purpose as that is literally the only way we have broken down sides in the past 2 seasons.

We have got to get an attacking midfielder in in the next 24hrs otherwise we will have serious problems this season. We need more urgency, more people being brave with the ball and carrying the ball forward with a purpose in mind. I fear the we ain’t going to unlock any defences if we keep playing walking, side to side football or boot it up to the two academy players up top in the Premier League. We need a range of attacking options to do anything this season. Currently we have very little to none.

After all this said. I have no idea what formation we could potentially even think about using with the players we have but it has gone really stale on the pitch for us and a change in formation might be something Heckingbottom needs to consider.

Without the flair of mcatee, illy, or mgw, we're too predictable and slow in our build up. Prem teams will easily rearrange their defence to deal with slow, side to side passes.

Hoping hecky and his team are devising new strategies as we speak! Utb

 

[Badger Blade]

I'm quite happy for us to drop anchor against someone like Man City, go 5-4-1, flood the midfield and make life difficult for them.

If we take a negative approach against a team as shit as Everton, then I'd worry about where this season is going

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I think you'll see us play more on the counterattack. I don't see us changing the 5 at the back & I think you might see Norwood remain in the team despite him irritating some fans because he's quite good at cutting out attacks based on his stats.

Wes
Baldock Anel Egan Robbo Thomas
Norwood Souza
Mcatee Hamer
Archer

Fitting Mcburnie in is problematic because if we drop Norwood we're pretty exposed in midfield. We know that Mcatee isn't great defensively, hence why Hecky played Fleck in some games where we needed to be more solid so I think he'll need the cover behind him. It's good that we've now got options.

 

[sufc323]

I think we look isolated when we play 2 up top and it invites pressure as we don't get the bodies up in time to support the strikers. In the Championship we can get away with it and risk more bodies going forward, but last time in the PL you could see we were reluctant to support the strikers in case the opposition countered us and picked us off in 2 passes.

I much prefer us to play 3-4-2-1 so that there is a link between midfield and attack, and allows us to play on the counter more as the 2 behind the striker (McAtee and Hamer) can drive with the ball. Incidentally, I think we played our best football under Hecky when we didn't have a recognised striker and played N'Diaye, MGW and Berge as a front 3. We looked fluid going forward and looked dangerous on the counter, so maybe with McAtee, Hamer and Archer we could see something similar

 

[Snowflake]

The majority of our success since late 2016 has been largely down to the quality of attacking midfielders we’ve had on our books.

In the past 8 seasons we’ve played a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-2-1 formation in 7 of those.

In them 7 seasons, we have had great attacking midfielders, such as Duffy, Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee.

In the Wilder era (League 1 & Championship only) we played 3-5-2 with an attacking midfielder (Duffy) who contributed greatly in our rise to the Prem. We had a player who would run at defences, have that pace on the counter and find that killer pass to open up defences. But we also had alternative attacking options with the use of our wing backs contributing greatly to the goals by scoring a lot themselves and also putting good deliveries into the box. We also had Fleck being that box to box midfield engine doing his bit too to support the attacks. Then we also had the likes of O’Connell & Basham overlapping the wing backs and creating another attacking option of an overload on the wings which created a lot of space for Duffy to pick the ball in dangerous areas and hurt teams. This made it very difficult for defences to prevent us scoring as we were very versatile in our attacking approach.

The only time we didn’t play with an attacking midfielder was in the 2019/20 campaign finishing 9th in the Prem, where we had a flat 3 midfield which usually consisted of Fleck, Norwood & Lundstram. But we still had the overlapping centre halfs and pretty decent wing backs contributing a lot plus Lundstram making late runs and getting important goals. The reason for the flat 3 shape was because if we lost the ball high up the pitch, we would still have plenty of players back to ensure we weren’t prone to counter attacks against better opposition.

The relegation covid season was a complete disaster from start to finish, since O’Connell was injured from the off, our identity disappeared rapidly and our unique way of playing was no more. There were still a few glimpses of overlapping centre halfs but nowhere near the amount Oconnell & Basham we’re doing. The midfield was a disgrace and there was no ball carrier in the side leading to McGoldrick having to do two roles at the same time. Was all too simple and easy to defend against as there was a lack of options.

Since we got relegated, under Slav & Hecky it has been not as enjoyable to watch prior to covid (even though we finished 5th and 2nd). We have stopped the overlapping centre halfs completely and our midfield has been pretty reserved. We have in the previous two seasons relied on Gibbs-White, N’Diaye & McAtee for any sort of attacking quality. When they didn’t feature, we looked void of ideas and a purpose. Would it kill for players to move into space instead of standing behind the opposition players? It has become too predictable, too slow and too easy for oppositions to defend against. The style actually hampers at this moment in time as we have no way of attacking with a purpose as that is literally the only way we have broken down sides in the past 2 seasons.

We have got to get an attacking midfielder in in the next 24hrs otherwise we will have serious problems this season. We need more urgency, more people being brave with the ball and carrying the ball forward with a purpose in mind. I fear the we ain’t going to unlock any defences if we keep playing walking, side to side football or boot it up to the two academy players up top in the Premier League. We need a range of attacking options to do anything this season. Currently we have very little to none.

After all this said. I have no idea what formation we could potentially even think about using with the players we have but it has gone really stale on the pitch for us and a change in formation might be something Heckingbottom needs to consider.

You rightly touched on one of our problems in that players without the ball do not get into spaces to receive a pass.
We criticise the backwards and sideways passing but often no one has made themselves available

 

[Charlieblade]

Hecky was using the formation with the kids before he took over from Wilder it was ingrained into the club through all levels

I agree that the system was played at all levels. I am Not debating the reasons for Hecky adopting the system. I’m suggesting that a major influx of new players will make the job harder for Hecky, whatever tactical change he makes.
Even if he keeps the same formation, it will need tweaking, purely because it is now the main option in the premier league.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

4 at the back today for both halves was a change. Not sure what the formation was but looked a 4 3 3?

 

[Shadota]

4 at the back today for both halves was a change. Not sure what the formation was but looked a 4 3 3?

More of a 4231. Marsh in 1st half as a 10 behind Onè. I didn't see the 2nd half but would have been maybe Slimane doing the same I imagine.

Wilder said in his post-match interview that they wanted to implement a new tactic, and to be comfortable playing a back 4. I hope it's a permanent change because I've no faith in the back 3 working anymore.

 

[LurkerBladeS2]

More of a 4231. Marsh in 1st half as a 10 behind Onè. I didn't see the 2nd half but would have been maybe Slimane doing the same I imagine.

Wilder said in his post-match interview that they wanted to implement a new tactic, and to be comfortable playing a back 4. I hope it's a permanent change because I've no faith in the back 3 working anymore.

Honestly have no idea where Slimane was playing, he was everywhere and nowhere!

 

[ancientblade]

More of a 4231. Marsh in 1st half as a 10 behind Onè. I didn't see the 2nd half but would have been maybe Slimane doing the same I imagine.

Wilder said in his post-match interview that they wanted to implement a new tactic, and to be comfortable playing a back 4. I hope it's a permanent change because I've no faith in the back 3 working anymore.

wouldnt be suprised if arblaster and shackleton are the 2 in midfield with hamer o'hare and carvalhio if we get him as the 3 behind moore