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CarlMcBlade

CarlMcBlade

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We’re easily a top 6 team for both quality and size of crowds etc. So in theory we should be a desirable destination for quality players who aren’t quite getting opportunities at their clubs. But this is Sheff United, perennially guilty of selling ourselves short. But who should this club be realistically be chasing in the JTW and who are we in all honesty going to end up with?
 



CarlMcBlade said:
We’re easily a top 6 team for both quality and size of crowds etc. So in theory we should be a desirable destination for quality players who aren’t quite getting opportunities at their clubs. But this is Sheff United, perennially guilty of selling ourselves short. But who should this club be realistically be chasing in the JTW and who are we in all honesty going to end up with?
Click to expand...

Since I started supporting (96/97) I would say we are at our natural level. If we go up then great but I’m more than happy where we are as a club.
 
Cool Clint said:
Unfortunately, most of those who started supporting in the '60s and '70s would suggest we are not anywhere near our natural level.
Click to expand...
I started supporting in 1968. There is an excellent metric I use that indicates our "natural level". I'm always amazed that more people don't use it. Like Superblades, I'm more than happy with where we are as a Club.
 
I started supporting the blades in the mid 70’s.
I think we’re only part of the way through a revolution being led by wilder/knill.
Long may it continue. UTB
 
A stat that most people probably don’t realise.

From 1893 to 1977 the worse position we’d finished in our entire history was 11th in the 2nd tier.
1978 we finished a mid table 12th, which at that time was our new lowest ever finish.
Then the following year in 1979 we finished 20th and we relegated to the 3rd tier for the 1st time ever.

Our all time record in the 2nd tier is very impressive.
History proves that 80% of the time we are up there involved in a promotion battle.
In fact when not in the top flight we are virtually gauranteed to be fighting for promotion.
 
The number of teams in the top flight has changed over time. It used to consist of Sheffield FC & Hallam FC. The number of points awarded for different results has changed over time. It could be argued that the FIFA World Club Championship is the top flight, with the UEFA Champions League below that. Maybe someone could work up some stats which takes those points into account
 
CarlMcBlade said:
We’re easily a top 6 team for both quality and size of crowds etc. So in theory we should be a desirable destination for quality players who aren’t quite getting opportunities at their clubs. But this is Sheff United, perennially guilty of selling ourselves short. But who should this club be realistically be chasing in the JTW and who are we in all honesty going to end up with?
Click to expand...

Can I have an easier question please? Maybe one on nuclear fission or summat?

There's a lot of different things in your "question" mate! I'll have a go at it...

"Easily a top 6 team for quality and size of crowds" . Well, there's some big clubs in this division. Villa, Derby, Norwich, Boro, Leeds, West Brom, Birmingham, and another one in Sheffield. I'd say we are there or thereabouts in terms of size of club, but you're talking about something different here I think? Not sure what the reference to "quality" is about? "Quality of crowds?" How on earth do you measure that? Do you mean quality of players? If so I'd disagree with you. I think other teams in the top 6 have better quality individual players than us, but we have a better quality manager.

"A desirable destination" - that depends where you are setting off from doesn't it? I mean, take Dean Henderson. He's currently playing for one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world. If he was to have a prospect of being Man Utd's first team goalkeeper he'd be stark raving bonkers to do anything other than take it. But...I suspect it's probably not going to happen for him. Man Utd will go out and buy some famous international name goalkeeper to replace De Gea eventually and Henderson will have to move out of Man Utd to get his chance in the Prem. So, in this case I would say that yes, definitely, Sheffield United are a very desirable destination for him - assuming we get to the Prem - because he'd be our first choice Prem keeper - so yes absolutely, that's "desirable". But he wouldn't stay with us for very long mate, and here's why...

Sheffield United operate on a shoe-string budget. Of course we'd get a massive financial boost if we were back in the Prem - but do you seriously think we'd "compete" financially, in terms of wages and bonuses etc., with most other Prem clubs? I don't think we would. We don't even compete with most of the teams in the Championship now in that respect. We'd be to the Prem like Rotherham United are to the Championship. The only players we'd attract would be ones who weren't quite cutting it elsewhere - or unknowns from abroad. But Wilder doesn't have any radar on players outside the British Isles so it would be mainly fringe players from other clubs. And that's not the way to build a sustainable team capable of competing in the Prem year on year. At best, I think we'd be a West Brom. Up and down between Prem and Championship on a regular basis. That's o.k. btw - I'll be happy with that. At least it will be a step up from where we are now.

The other thing about desirable destination though is the city itself. I think for some footballers it won't be seen as a desirable destination at all. Don't forget these are guys with money coming out of their ears who can have the best of everything. I'm sorry to say it, but Sheffield isn't exactly a glamorous destination oozing top class everything. It's rather the opposite. If players want to "live the life" whilst they have all this money on their hands, then London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and several other cities, are more desirable than Sheffield for doing that.

And last, "who should we be chasing in the Jan transfer window?" - No idea tbh. But we lack alternatives to Clarke and Sharp up front, so there's a clue. We don't have an alternative to Fleck or Duffy either. And the right back position is suspect to me. So that's about 5 players by my reckoning. I'd prefer to talk about what ingredients are missing in the team. Pace, Height, Strength, Creativity, Goal-threat. Just fix those things and we'll be reyt! Who will we end up with? - One or two players perhaps who fill some of these gaps, but not all.
 
We'll sign whoever is not getting a game, is cheap, and needs 10 games to get his fitness levels up which he won't get.
Maybe we can get some contribution from Woodburn
 
Sheffsteel said:
Our all time record in the 2nd tier is very impressive.
History proves that 80% of the time we are up there involved in a promotion battle.
In fact when not in the top flight we are virtually gauranteed to be fighting for promotion.
Click to expand...
Spot on. Except that the last sentence should read 'we WERE virtually guaranteed...' History does not guarantee the future.
 
For the vast majority of the time we have spent in the top tier, we did not sign ANYONE in the January Transfer Window. So, clearly, the correct strategy for moving to the top tier, & remaining there, is to not sign anyone in the January Transfer Window. Easy this Statistics as History lark isn't it?
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Can I have an easier question please? Maybe one on nuclear fission or summat?

There's a lot of different things in your "question" mate! I'll have a go at it...

"Easily a top 6 team for quality and size of crowds" . Well, there's some big clubs in this division. Villa, Derby, Norwich, Boro, Leeds, West Brom, Birmingham, and another one in Sheffield. I'd say we are there or thereabouts in terms of size of club, but you're talking about something different here I think? Not sure what the reference to "quality" is about? "Quality of crowds?" How on earth do you measure that? Do you mean quality of players? If so I'd disagree with you. I think other teams in the top 6 have better quality individual players than us, but we have a better quality manager.

"A desirable destination" - that depends where you are setting off from doesn't it? I mean, take Dean Henderson. He's currently playing for one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world. If he was to have a prospect of being Man Utd's first team goalkeeper he'd be stark raving bonkers to do anything other than take it. But...I suspect it's probably not going to happen for him. Man Utd will go out and buy some famous international name goalkeeper to replace De Gea eventually and Henderson will have to move out of Man Utd to get his chance in the Prem. So, in this case I would say that yes, definitely, Sheffield United are a very desirable destination for him - assuming we get to the Prem - because he'd be our first choice Prem keeper - so yes absolutely, that's "desirable". But he wouldn't stay with us for very long mate, and here's why...

Sheffield United operate on a shoe-string budget. Of course we'd get a massive financial boost if we were back in the Prem - but do you seriously think we'd "compete" financially, in terms of wages and bonuses etc., with most other Prem clubs? I don't think we would. We don't even compete with most of the teams in the Championship now in that respect. We'd be to the Prem like Rotherham United are to the Championship. The only players we'd attract would be ones who weren't quite cutting it elsewhere - or unknowns from abroad. But Wilder doesn't have any radar on players outside the British Isles so it would be mainly fringe players from other clubs. And that's not the way to build a sustainable team capable of competing in the Prem year on year. At best, I think we'd be a West Brom. Up and down between Prem and Championship on a regular basis. That's o.k. btw - I'll be happy with that. At least it will be a step up from where we are now.

The other thing about desirable destination though is the city itself. I think for some footballers it won't be seen as a desirable destination at all. Don't forget these are guys with money coming out of their ears who can have the best of everything. I'm sorry to say it, but Sheffield isn't exactly a glamorous destination oozing top class everything. It's rather the opposite. If players want to "live the life" whilst they have all this money on their hands, then London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and several other cities, are more desirable than Sheffield for doing that.

And last, "who should we be chasing in the Jan transfer window?" - No idea tbh. But we lack alternatives to Clarke and Sharp up front, so there's a clue. We don't have an alternative to Fleck or Duffy either. And the right back position is suspect to me. So that's about 5 players by my reckoning. I'd prefer to talk about what ingredients are missing in the team. Pace, Height, Strength, Creativity, Goal-threat. Just fix those things and we'll be reyt! Who will we end up with? - One or two players perhaps who fill some of these gaps, but not all.
Click to expand...
Spot on its all about money! We can compete with half of premiership so getting there is the hardest task.Unless someone comes in with big bucks then wages will always be an issue.
The key is not to put all your eggs in one basket as a lot of championship clubs do,we are doing it right building as we go,we could even crack it this season . We know January is big for us this year but we will not bust the transfer budget as that would leave us vulnerable if we fail.
 



We're good enough to warrant our position when we are playing at 100% (a feat only CW can perform with the current players). We're no where near good enough for the PL in our current form on and off the pitch.
That said nor are Norwich, Leeds, Derby et al!
 
Dkc said:
Given that we've spent about 80 percent of our existance in the top flight, why should we accept the second tier as our natural level?
Click to expand...

For the majority of the time we were in the top flight it was a level-ish playing field, where a club the size of ours could genuinely hope to compete at the top level without any extraordinary financial burden and requirement. Then came TV money and it's no longer the case.
 
We're in the top 25 or so clubs in the country in terms of size, more or less the same as the likes of Wednesday, Wolves, Norwich, Derby, Forest, Leicester, Southampton, Boro, West Brom, Stoke, Birmingham.

We all take turns at being good and being average and being shit.

We're a top flight club, sometimes.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Can I have an easier question please? Maybe one on nuclear fission or summat?

There's a lot of different things in your "question" mate! I'll have a go at it...

"Easily a top 6 team for quality and size of crowds" . Well, there's some big clubs in this division. Villa, Derby, Norwich, Boro, Leeds, West Brom, Birmingham, and another one in Sheffield. I'd say we are there or thereabouts in terms of size of club, but you're talking about something different here I think? Not sure what the reference to "quality" is about? "Quality of crowds?" How on earth do you measure that? Do you mean quality of players? If so I'd disagree with you. I think other teams in the top 6 have better quality individual players than us, but we have a better quality manager.

"A desirable destination" - that depends where you are setting off from doesn't it? I mean, take Dean Henderson. He's currently playing for one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world. If he was to have a prospect of being Man Utd's first team goalkeeper he'd be stark raving bonkers to do anything other than take it. But...I suspect it's probably not going to happen for him. Man Utd will go out and buy some famous international name goalkeeper to replace De Gea eventually and Henderson will have to move out of Man Utd to get his chance in the Prem. So, in this case I would say that yes, definitely, Sheffield United are a very desirable destination for him - assuming we get to the Prem - because he'd be our first choice Prem keeper - so yes absolutely, that's "desirable". But he wouldn't stay with us for very long mate, and here's why...

Sheffield United operate on a shoe-string budget. Of course we'd get a massive financial boost if we were back in the Prem - but do you seriously think we'd "compete" financially, in terms of wages and bonuses etc., with most other Prem clubs? I don't think we would. We don't even compete with most of the teams in the Championship now in that respect. We'd be to the Prem like Rotherham United are to the Championship. The only players we'd attract would be ones who weren't quite cutting it elsewhere - or unknowns from abroad. But Wilder doesn't have any radar on players outside the British Isles so it would be mainly fringe players from other clubs. And that's not the way to build a sustainable team capable of competing in the Prem year on year. At best, I think we'd be a West Brom. Up and down between Prem and Championship on a regular basis. That's o.k. btw - I'll be happy with that. At least it will be a step up from where we are now.

The other thing about desirable destination though is the city itself. I think for some footballers it won't be seen as a desirable destination at all. Don't forget these are guys with money coming out of their ears who can have the best of everything. I'm sorry to say it, but Sheffield isn't exactly a glamorous destination oozing top class everything. It's rather the opposite. If players want to "live the life" whilst they have all this money on their hands, then London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and several other cities, are more desirable than Sheffield for doing that.

And last, "who should we be chasing in the Jan transfer window?" - No idea tbh. But we lack alternatives to Clarke and Sharp up front, so there's a clue. We don't have an alternative to Fleck or Duffy either. And the right back position is suspect to me. So that's about 5 players by my reckoning. I'd prefer to talk about what ingredients are missing in the team. Pace, Height, Strength, Creativity, Goal-threat. Just fix those things and we'll be reyt! Who will we end up with? - One or two players perhaps who fill some of these gaps, but not all.
Click to expand...
How long do we need to be in the top six until people realise that we have quality players.The champ table nearly half way through the season suggests we are challenging for an Auto spot and people still insist other teams have superior quality.If the way we play somehow trumps quality over a 21 game period then Wilder deserves the Nobel
peace price for reinventing physics.
 
Erm....2 names would have done. It was a genuine question as I’m not a great student of other teams players.... Unless they’ve been to the lane of course. So I don’t really know who’s out there at the moment.
 
Blade56 said:
We're good enough to warrant our position when we are playing at 100% (a feat only CW can perform with the current players). We're no where near good enough for the PL in our current form on and off the pitch.
That said nor are Norwich, Leeds, Derby et al!
Click to expand...
No
 
I think any young quantity player that comes to the lane in this day and age will see the Blades as just a stepping stone, and be hoping to leave for a better club at the first opportunity .
 
Cerberus Blade said:
Can I have an easier question please? Maybe one on nuclear fission or summat?

There's a lot of different things in your "question" mate! I'll have a go at it...

"Easily a top 6 team for quality and size of crowds" . Well, there's some big clubs in this division. Villa, Derby, Norwich, Boro, Leeds, West Brom, Birmingham, and another one in Sheffield. I'd say we are there or thereabouts in terms of size of club, but you're talking about something different here I think? Not sure what the reference to "quality" is about? "Quality of crowds?" How on earth do you measure that? Do you mean quality of players? If so I'd disagree with you. I think other teams in the top 6 have better quality individual players than us, but we have a better quality manager.

"A desirable destination" - that depends where you are setting off from doesn't it? I mean, take Dean Henderson. He's currently playing for one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world. If he was to have a prospect of being Man Utd's first team goalkeeper he'd be stark raving bonkers to do anything other than take it. But...I suspect it's probably not going to happen for him. Man Utd will go out and buy some famous international name goalkeeper to replace De Gea eventually and Henderson will have to move out of Man Utd to get his chance in the Prem. So, in this case I would say that yes, definitely, Sheffield United are a very desirable destination for him - assuming we get to the Prem - because he'd be our first choice Prem keeper - so yes absolutely, that's "desirable". But he wouldn't stay with us for very long mate, and here's why...

Sheffield United operate on a shoe-string budget. Of course we'd get a massive financial boost if we were back in the Prem - but do you seriously think we'd "compete" financially, in terms of wages and bonuses etc., with most other Prem clubs? I don't think we would. We don't even compete with most of the teams in the Championship now in that respect. We'd be to the Prem like Rotherham United are to the Championship. The only players we'd attract would be ones who weren't quite cutting it elsewhere - or unknowns from abroad. But Wilder doesn't have any radar on players outside the British Isles so it would be mainly fringe players from other clubs. And that's not the way to build a sustainable team capable of competing in the Prem year on year. At best, I think we'd be a West Brom. Up and down between Prem and Championship on a regular basis. That's o.k. btw - I'll be happy with that. At least it will be a step up from where we are now.

The other thing about desirable destination though is the city itself. I think for some footballers it won't be seen as a desirable destination at all. Don't forget these are guys with money coming out of their ears who can have the best of everything. I'm sorry to say it, but Sheffield isn't exactly a glamorous destination oozing top class everything. It's rather the opposite. If players want to "live the life" whilst they have all this money on their hands, then London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, and several other cities, are more desirable than Sheffield for doing that.

And last, "who should we be chasing in the Jan transfer window?" - No idea tbh. But we lack alternatives to Clarke and Sharp up front, so there's a clue. We don't have an alternative to Fleck or Duffy either. And the right back position is suspect to me. So that's about 5 players by my reckoning. I'd prefer to talk about what ingredients are missing in the team. Pace, Height, Strength, Creativity, Goal-threat. Just fix those things and we'll be reyt! Who will we end up with? - One or two players perhaps who fill some of these gaps, but not all.
Click to expand...
The question was simple really. What players could we potentially go for and what players are we going to end up with. Purely speculative, slide rule accuracy not required.
 
Dkc said:
Given that we've spent about 80 percent of our existance in the top flight, why should we accept the second tier as our natural level?
Click to expand...

~50% actually.

Since my birth (1984), we've spent 5 seasons in the top flight (14%). We've spent more time in the third tier in 35 years than the top.

From 1976, we spent 14 years outside it. Another 12 from 1994 and are currently in our 11th year.

Since our initial spell in the top flight (37 seasons from 1893 - 1934), the longest stretch we've managed is 7 seasons from 1961 to 1968.

1920px-SheffieldUnitedFC_League_Performance.svg.png


This suggests we are still there, just:
upload_2018-12-10_13-32-58.png

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/SEASONS-IN-TOP-FLIGHT----1888-89-to-2009-10.html
 
Last edited:
mattbianco1 said:
~50% actually.

Since my birth (1984), we've spent 5 seasons in the top flight (14%). We've spent more time in the third tier in 35 years than the top.

From 1976, we spent 14 years outside it. Another 12 from 1994 and are currently in our 11th year.

Since our initial spell in the top flight (37 seasons from 1893 - 1934), the longest stretch we've managed is 7 seasons from 1961 to 1968.

1920px-SheffieldUnitedFC_League_Performance.svg.png
Click to expand...
Depressing when you consider that in my lifetime (Close to yours), the likes of Wigan, Bolton, Watford, Brighton, Portsmouth, Coventry, Burnley, Leicester, Hull, Wimbledon, Swansea, Cardiff, Palace, Charlton, Fulham, QPR, Reading, Stoke have all had as many (and in most cases more) seasons in the top flight than we have.

Extremely depressing when you look at it.
 
To answer the OP, realistically we should be going for Shane Long and Luke Freeman, both would fit our style (Long would be excellent up front doing the work and being horrible to defenders, Freeman would be akin to Duffy but different still). We missed a trick years ago with Freeman when he was quality against us for Stevenage, but hey ho.

We might end up with Long, on loan with a view to summer move but i think that'll depend on whether or not he gets game time under Southamptons new manager. Other than that, im not sure who else we'll be aiming to get to be honest.
 
Scooter_mcgavin said:
Depressing when you consider that in my lifetime (Close to yours), the likes of Wigan, Bolton, Watford, Brighton, Portsmouth, Coventry, Burnley, Leicester, Hull, Wimbledon, Swansea, Cardiff, Palace, Charlton, Fulham, QPR, Reading, Stoke have all had as many (and in most cases more) seasons in the top flight than we have.

Extremely depressing when you look at it.
Click to expand...

Maybe. But in a similar time (i started going in early 80's) we've had 4 FA Cup semis, 2 league cups, plenty of 1/4 finals, the amazing back to back promotions of Bassett, two doubles over the Snortbeasts, brilliant nights in the cup (Blackburn, Cov, Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal), Warnocks promotion year, Wilders promotion year, some of the best football at times under Kendall / Spackman / Wilder, trips to Wembley and Cardiff for Play Offs. For me, the near 40 years of watching United has overall been brilliant and i've loved it. Been some crap too, but that's all part of the fun.

Was talking to a piggy mate about this recently aand yeah from 80's - 1994/5 they had some good stuff (Cup win, Europe, finish 3rd, two cup finals) but since then bar their Hartlepool game and beating us to promotion they've had nothing! Essentially in the last 20 years theyve won promotion twice from the third tier and that's it! No cup runs of any real significance, no fantastic players, no one whos gone on to play for England that they can look at with pride, just crap. Makes you smile doesnt it!
 



gleadlessblades said:
Maybe. But in a similar time (i started going in early 80's) we've had 4 FA Cup semis, 2 league cups, plenty of 1/4 finals, the amazing back to back promotions of Bassett, two doubles over the Snortbeasts, brilliant nights in the cup (Blackburn, Cov, Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal), Warnocks promotion year, Wilders promotion year, some of the best football at times under Kendall / Spackman / Wilder, trips to Wembley and Cardiff for Play Offs. For me, the near 40 years of watching United has overall been brilliant and i've loved it. Been some crap too, but that's all part of the fun.

Was talking to a piggy mate about this recently aand yeah from 80's - 1994/5 they had some good stuff (Cup win, Europe, finish 3rd, two cup finals) but since then bar their Hartlepool game and beating us to promotion they've had nothing! Essentially in the last 20 years theyve won promotion twice from the third tier and that's it! No cup runs of any real significance, no fantastic players, no one whos gone on to play for England that they can look at with pride, just crap. Makes you smile doesnt it!
Click to expand...

If you compare with them yes, they've had years of nothingness.

However the rest of your highlights has been achieved by many, if not excelled by the clubs that I mentioned.

If you're talking cup wins.... over 50% of the bloody football league have won something since we last did.
 
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