Poll reference VAR

[Ainsley Harriott]

This is clearly the way forward. In fact, given the PL's whore-like devotion to the media, perhaps they could have a reality TV style show at 7pm every Monday, a bit like Strictly. Claudia Winkleperson could introduce clips of the weekend's worst VAR decisions, with a panel of experts (plus Mark Lawrenson) selecting the worst two. These two could then go to a public vote. By 10pm, the people would have spoken. The worst VAR of the week would be publically shamed and the decision reversed.

Thus, if it was the disallowed Blades goal which won the viewer's poll, the Blades would be awarded 2 extra points and Spurs deducted one. If the Leicester penalty shout won, then Leicester would be awarded an extra goal from the resulting penalty, for a 3-0 win.

Then as a finale to the show, the Stockley Park ref who called the overturned decision would be forced to eat live grubs under the baying supervision of Ant and Dec

My working title for this TV ratings winner is "I'm a shit VAR decision, get me out of here" or possibly "The FA's got no talent."

Sounds like a winner to me.

Not keen on the idea of a straight white able-bodied host, though. Not inclusive enough.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think that is how they are thinking at the moment but as soon as you measure anything, there is an inaccuracy in it and I think they are deluding themselves about how accurate the system is

Same for everybody though. That has to be acknowledged. Not a human decision.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Or quite possibly what Wilder was told on Thursday?

Clear and obvious is not compatible with one side of a line and the other side. It's a clear decision measured by the technology.

 

[bypassblade]

When you get down to splitting atoms to decide a goal it's not football, VAR will kill footy.

 

[gordoncharles]

Well, there you go. No sooner had I voted than Manchester City are denied a clear penalty and within 20 seconds Liverpool score at the other end.

Meanwhile goals are disallowed for non existent offsides.

Scrap the fucking thing until someone has a fucking clue how making the "correct" decision will actually work in practice. This is worse than the situation that existed for 150 years.

 

[metalblade]

I voted to bin it, a still photo or a slow motion replay can make a good tackle look a leg breaker or vise versa, you have to run replays at normal speed to get the true picture of what happens.
VAR could make it a lot easier for the refs but how it is used at the moment it is not fit for purpose.

 

[YES Blade]

Well, there you go. No sooner had I voted than Manchester City are denied a clear penalty and within 20 seconds Liverpool score at the other end.

Meanwhile goals are disallowed for non existent offsides.

Scrap the fucking thing until someone has a fucking clue how making the "correct" decision will actually work in practice. This is worse than the situation that existed for 150 years.

I was amazed how quickly they sorted the Salah goal as onside compared to yesterday.

There is no way the VAR ref did all those lines on the pitch that he did for us.

 

[oohaah]

On a slightly lighter note, I think we can do better than the ‘VAR is fucking shit’ song.

Surely a re-working of Edwin Starr’s War is in order for the next outrage.

VAR, huh, yeah, what is it good for, absolutely nothing, say it again... (repeat ad infinitum)

I think it fits the subject matter nicely, or has this been done already?

I’m sure the ref’s will listen if we give them a better tune.

 

[S6 Blade]

The technology isn’t there to make VAR work. If Lundstram wore black boots he’d have looked inside. The frame rate isn’t good enough but the tv cameras to should a true image of it. The goal line cameras are much better quality where it can slow the play down without any motion blur. Also 1 minute to make a decision and if they can’t then the original decision stands.

 

[bartman]

Clear and obvious is not compatible with one side of a line and the other side. It's a clear decision measured by the technology.

You do know VAR isnt totally accurate for offside decisions don't you. There is a margin of error.this has been confirmed by the company who built VAR. When I find the article I will post it. Basically there is an element where a decision is inconclusive and it it down to the VAR studio to drawn lines to make a decision. The resolution isn't good enough to make a decision ( if I recall the margin is 20cm)

 

[Woodwardfan]

You do know VAR isnt totally accurate for offside decisions don't you. There is a margin of error.this has been confirmed by the company who built VAR. When I find the article I will post it. Basically there is an element where a decision is inconclusive and it it down to the VAR studio to drawn lines to make a decision. The resolution isn't good enough to make a decision ( if I recall the margin is 20cm)

Same for everybody, thats the saving grace.

 

[spongebobblade]

It's a clear decision measured by the technology.

That clear that nobody can agree on it. That clear that the goal was scored in the second phase not the first. That clear that you won’t admit they got it wrong

 

[spongebobblade]

You do know VAR isnt totally accurate for offside decisions don't you. There is a margin of error.this has been confirmed by the company who built VAR. When I find the article I will post it. Basically there is an element where a decision is inconclusive and it it down to the VAR studio to drawn lines to make a decision. The resolution isn't good enough to make a decision ( if I recall the margin is 20cm)

Ah 20cm...... I’m assuming none of Lundstrams’ toes are bigger than 20cm

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Saw this on Facebook so thought we should have the chance to vote too

Keep it or dump it?

No option to fuck about with the decision for three and a half years with the outcome?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I reckon Moss will have taken all that time to make his decision because he knew the decision was controversial but couldnt find any way to avoid it
In such a case the rules/ guidance/practice needs review.

He was taking a piss in the referees pot, hence the delay.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I think they should keep it, review the games the next day and then decide how many goals should have been scored. The decision can then be emailed to the fans and the results and tables posted on facebook and the club website. Much more logical.

Save some train fare that?

 

[Woodwardfan]

That clear that nobody can agree on it. That clear that the goal was scored in the second phase not the first. That clear that you won’t admit they got it wrong

Look at what I'm saying. I dont condone the rule and do hope for tweaks to the guidance.
Moss got it right and applied the rule.

My own solution would be to measure the players' main body, not feet and hands.

 

[spongebobblade]

Look at what I'm saying. I dont condone the rule and do hope for tweaks to the guidance.
Moss got it right and applied the rule.

My own solution would be to measure the players' main body, not feet and hands.

Moss got it wrong. The phase was reset. They have been told to take that into consideration. He has chosen to ignore that.
The picture is inconclusive because it’s difficult to tell whether his shoulder is ahead of his knee as they aren’t perfectly in line. That in itself is enough to provide the doubt. The technology yesterday proved absolutely nothing

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Just like driverless cars, they’re trying to develop referee-less football matches.

 

[ChrisBlade]

So Woodwardfan, if we have DNA analysis but there is serious doubt whether it may be flawed, you would feel the saving grace is that CPS uses it consistently? Because who had sexual intercourse with a person is a matter of fact rather than something you need to get correct on the merits (as opposed to consistently implemented under whatever potentially flawed protocol is in place?).

Sorry, but to rule that goal out was dodgy under any protocol currently conceivable. One frame either way and it already changes...

 

[Woodwardfan]

So Woodwardfan, if we have DNA analysis but there is serious doubt whether it may be flawed, you would feel the saving grace is that CPS uses it consistently? Because who had sexual intercourse with a person is a matter of fact rather than something you need to get correct on the merits (as opposed to consistently implemented under whatever potentially flawed protocol is in place?).

Sorry, but to rule that goal out was dodgy under any protocol currently conceivable. One frame either way and it already changes...

No to the DNA but if we compare to speed traps. The police could draw the line at 30mph or 70mph on motorways and issue tickets for everyone above. They don't thank goodness and different forces draw their lines at 74mph or even 77mph.

At present the referees ( and surely the P.L. are involved, though they show no leadership whatsoever) draw the line at one toe it seems. It's that which is the same for everybody.

Re-sets guidance is ambiguous and needs definition.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Add an option to keep it but with changes to adjust and further test and improve. That would be my choice.

Exactly right. It's a pity that such polls are often started by people who don't understand how to do a poll, (no reference to originaltrueblade intended btw - I appreciate he's only putting on here what he's seen on Facebook).

The numbers in this poll don't tell us much at all unfortunately. There's probably a much higher number of people who think it could be retained if it was used differently. Probably. I don't know - and neither does anyone else - because we haven't asked the right questions.

 

[sheffielder]

Some things in football are objective, such as the ball crossing the goal line. We now have a way to decide definitively if this has happens. All good.

Some things are more subjective - fouls, dives etc

Some things are a mix of both. Handball requires a decision as to how natural the arm position was when the ball struck it, and whether it counts if the ball hit the upper arm or not. Offside is also a mix. A players position on the pitch is objective, but interfering with play makes it more up to the referee to decide.

For all these decisions, we've historically simply given power over to the referee & linesmen and just said 'For better or for worse, you decide, and we'll stick with your decision'. The downsides of this are manifold. Different referees will come to different opinions, and will occasionally miss the blindingly obvious, such as actual goals going in the back of the net.

There's a lot of calls on here to scrap VAR. The question I have for those people is:
If VAR is removed, will you be ok with simply accepting the referee's decision when he inevitably gets it wrong, and just accepting that mistakes from players, managers and the ref all play a part of the game?

I ask this because although I think this it's a reasonable position, I remember so many complaints from fans every week about refereeing decisions. Sometimes I question if fans know what they really want.

I am more understanding of a referee making an incorrect decision than I am of two people making an incorrect decision.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Exactly right. It's a pity that such polls are often started by people who don't understand how to do a poll, (no reference to originaltrueblade intended btw - I appreciate he's only putting on here what he's seen on Facebook).

The numbers in this poll don't tell us much at all unfortunately. There's probably a much higher number of people who think it could be retained if it was used differently. Probably. I don't know - and neither does anyone else - because we haven't asked the right questions.

24% support for VAR is remarkable on this of all weekends.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

24% support for VAR is remarkable on this of all weekends.

This shows only that 24% do not think it should be scrapped altogether. That's all we can deduce from it. That's quite different to 24% saying leave it as it is.

 

[Woodwardfan]

This shows only that 24% do not think it should be scrapped altogether. That's all we can deduce from it. That's quite different to 24% saying leave it as it is.

That goes without saying really Cerb.

 

[sitwell]

Why is Mike fucking Riley in charge of ,the guy was a shit referee ,with zero communication skills and personality. we are being held hostage by a complete nob. Its like putting Rolf Harris in charge of Nursery monitoring. Get rid of it ,its shit.

 

[sitwell]

No to the DNA but if we compare to speed traps. The police could draw the line at 30mph or 70mph on motorways and issue tickets for everyone above. They don't thank goodness and different forces draw their lines at 74mph or even 77mph.

At present the referees ( and surely the P.L. are involved, though they show no leadership whatsoever) draw the line at one toe it seems. It's that which is the same for everybody.

Re-sets guidance is ambiguous and needs definition.

Why are we even talking about this instead of our 23 pass goal ,or Hendos save ,or the magnificent stadium ?
Non football people that's why.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Trevor Sinclair just made a great point that he was in a meeting where Richard scudamore told the assembled press that there were ten clubs that they would rather have in the premier league than your Bournemouth and burnleys etc and that the pgmol is directly funded by the premier league and that that is dangerous ground

Also mark Halsey stated that there is a directive on how to use var which is being implemented by every country except ours for some reason

Here's an article about how PREMIER LEAGUE OFFICIALS met up to decide how to use the new system

Don't confuse this with premier league officials i.e referees and linesman They weren't involved in this process ,simply told what to do by the money men who don't want certain clubs in their league

VAR: referees to discuss how it is used in Premier League - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48793310

 

[Woodwardfan]

Why are we even talking about this instead of our 23 pass goal ,or Hendos save ,or the magnificent stadium ?
Non football people that's why.

OK let's talk that latest Super Over then Sits

Seriously, Deadbat's report is the best forum for the game (IMO). just the 15 replies and most of those are simple thanks to the author.

As for VAR, it is a pressing issue for the game and it is always beneficial to absorb all ranges of views.