Playing out from the back.

[Dronfield Blade]

Something that has been bugging me since the start of the season, since the new goal kick rule was introduced - “with goalkeepers now able to pass to their teammates inside the area, keepers will be able to restart play with short passes.”

I thought this would result in us trying to play out from the back more often, especially considering that our back 3 are all very controlled with the ball at their feet.

It was very noticeable against liverpool that going long wasn't gaining us much of an advantage, both arial duels and second balls, but we persisted. (At least to the eye test, stats may prove me wrong)

Is this down to the team wanting to maintain such a high press up the pitch?

Personally I would like some variation from goal kicks, seeing:

CB>Lunny>Fleck
Lunny drop deeper to receive the ball from a CB and then looking for either Fleck or the wingback as a outlet, keeping the ball at feet playing through/around the opposition

Alternatively,

CB>Lunny>Norwood

Norwood has the abilty to accurately open the play up with a long ball, either to a mans feet or into space or for somebody to run onto.

This is not a criticism of Hendo’s goal kicks or Wilders tactics, I just wondered what peoples thoughts on this was?

 

[blademark]

Something that has been bugging me since the start of the season, since the new goal kick rule was introduced - “with goalkeepers now able to pass to their teammates inside the area, keepers will be able to restart play with short passes.”

I thought this would result in us trying to play out from the back more often, especially considering that our back 3 are all very controlled with the ball at their feet.

It was very noticeable against liverpool that going long wasn't gaining us much of an advantage, both arial duels and second balls, but we persisted. (At least to the eye test, stats may prove me wrong)

Is this down to the team wanting to maintain such a high press up the pitch?

Personally I would like some variation from goal kicks, seeing:

CB>Lunny>Fleck
Lunny drop deeper to receive the ball from a CB and then looking for either Fleck or the wingback as a outlet, keeping the ball at feet playing through/around the opposition

Alternatively,

CB>Lunny>Norwood

Norwood has the abilty to accurately open the play up with a long ball, either to a mans feet or into space or for somebody to run onto.

This is not a criticism of Hendo’s goal kicks or Wilders tactics, I just wondered what peoples thoughts on this was?

Agree we should dispense with Hendos kicking if possible.

 

[RMBlade]

Something that has been bugging me since the start of the season, since the new goal kick rule was introduced - “with goalkeepers now able to pass to their teammates inside the area, keepers will be able to restart play with short passes.”

I thought this would result in us trying to play out from the back more often, especially considering that our back 3 are all very controlled with the ball at their feet.

It was very noticeable against liverpool that going long wasn't gaining us much of an advantage, both arial duels and second balls, but we persisted. (At least to the eye test, stats may prove me wrong)

Is this down to the team wanting to maintain such a high press up the pitch?

Personally I would like some variation from goal kicks, seeing:

CB>Lunny>Fleck
Lunny drop deeper to receive the ball from a CB and then looking for either Fleck or the wingback as a outlet, keeping the ball at feet playing through/around the opposition

Alternatively,

CB>Lunny>Norwood

Norwood has the abilty to accurately open the play up with a long ball, either to a mans feet or into space or for somebody to run onto.

This is not a criticism of Hendo’s goal kicks or Wilders tactics, I just wondered what peoples thoughts on this was?

I read a stat before the Liverpool game that Us and Newcastle are the only teams in the Premier League not to play a goal kick to a player inside the box.

I disagree with you in regards to the Liverpool game. They are possibly the best high pressing team in the world, when they played Arsenal, every time Arsenal went short they looked like they were going lose the ball in a dangerous position.

 

[Bartleby]

Agree we should dispense with Hendos kicking if possible.

Also thought there were two or three dodgy moments on saturday when Hendo rolled it out to players who were under pressure.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Memories of Weir's tactics for a mercifully small number of games are still too raw on the Kop to risk subjecting us to the torture of the short goal-kick. The nervous reaction would transmit itself to the players.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I read a stat before the Liverpool game that Us and Newcastle are the only teams in the Premier League not to play a goal kick to a player inside the box.

I disagree with you in regards to the Liverpool game. They are possibly the best high pressing team in the world, when they played Arsenal, every time Arsenal went short they looked like they were going lose the ball in a dangerous position.

As a result of this, we're also one of the only teams not to have conceded a goal as a direct result of this abomination.

 

[Sheff de party]

I think we’re doing superbly and playing well, with the players’ confidence rightly high. The dangers of fannying around in our own box outweigh the benefits because we’re rarely going to run the possession of games. Our players are generally less talented on the ball too.

Don’t risk it.

 

[Dronfield Blade]

Looks like I'm in the minority

Just sometimes seems a waste seeing the ball fly over such talented lads, I would argue the Sheff de party point about “less talented on the ball”

Stevens, JOC, Fleck, Norwood, Lunny and Mcgoldrick all very composed players with the ball at their feet. All 6 must have fantastic completed pass stats.

I believe Stevens has nutmegged somebody every single premier league game , seriously though we have come this far having “overlapping centre backs” surely we can trust them to control the ball and make a pass under abit of pressure?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Something that has been bugging me since the start of the season, since the new goal kick rule was introduced - “with goalkeepers now able to pass to their teammates inside the area, keepers will be able to restart play with short passes.”

I thought this would result in us trying to play out from the back more often, especially considering that our back 3 are all very controlled with the ball at their feet.

It was very noticeable against liverpool that going long wasn't gaining us much of an advantage, both arial duels and second balls, but we persisted. (At least to the eye test, stats may prove me wrong)

Is this down to the team wanting to maintain such a high press up the pitch?

Personally I would like some variation from goal kicks, seeing:

CB>Lunny>Fleck
Lunny drop deeper to receive the ball from a CB and then looking for either Fleck or the wingback as a outlet, keeping the ball at feet playing through/around the opposition

Alternatively,

CB>Lunny>Norwood

Norwood has the abilty to accurately open the play up with a long ball, either to a mans feet or into space or for somebody to run onto.

This is not a criticism of Hendo’s goal kicks or Wilders tactics, I just wondered what peoples thoughts on this was?

I appreciate the laughing emoji thingy on my post (#5), but I wasn't joking... Still, it's a better response than most of my jokes get...

 

[Davalon]

Since the new rule came in all I've noticed is a ridiculous number of needless suicide passes from keepers.

I also don't understand the reasoning given for it. I'm struggling to remember hardly any retakes in years as a result of a defender deliberately stepping into the box to touch the ball due to being under pressure.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Something that has been bugging me since the start of the season, since the new goal kick rule was introduced - “with goalkeepers now able to pass to their teammates inside the area, keepers will be able to restart play with short passes.”

I thought this would result in us trying to play out from the back more often, especially considering that our back 3 are all very controlled with the ball at their feet.

It was very noticeable against liverpool that going long wasn't gaining us much of an advantage, both arial duels and second balls, but we persisted. (At least to the eye test, stats may prove me wrong)

Is this down to the team wanting to maintain such a high press up the pitch?

Personally I would like some variation from goal kicks, seeing:

CB>Lunny>Fleck
Lunny drop deeper to receive the ball from a CB and then looking for either Fleck or the wingback as a outlet, keeping the ball at feet playing through/around the opposition

Alternatively,

CB>Lunny>Norwood

Norwood has the abilty to accurately open the play up with a long ball, either to a mans feet or into space or for somebody to run onto.

This is not a criticism of Hendo’s goal kicks or Wilders tactics, I just wondered what peoples thoughts on this was?

I'd say it's because of the high press that other teams have played on us. I also think that whilst we are making the mistakes we are at present and gifting the ball to the opposition it might take a number of games for us to get confident enough to try this approach.

It's not impacted as much on our play as I thought it might as we are playing with the flat 3 in midfield and supporting the forwards as a unit rather than just with a no. 10 supporting.

Last season it was noticeable that the games where teams stopped us doing this we played poorly, this season we seem to have found a variation on 'plan a' where we can go long if required.

 

[PokerBlade]

Looks like I'm in the minority

Just sometimes seems a waste seeing the ball fly over such talented lads, I would argue the Sheff de party point about “less talented on the ball”

Stevens, JOC, Fleck, Norwood, Lunny and Mcgoldrick all very composed players with the ball at their feet. All 6 must have fantastic completed pass stats.

I believe Stevens has nutmegged somebody every single premier league game , seriously though we have come this far having “overlapping centre backs” surely we can trust them to control the ball and make a pass under abit of pressure?

The other side to this is that we've conceded goals from individual errors, including players getting caught in possession.

As we go forward I'd like to see us look to control the game more but the start of the season has to be about establishing yourself and getting the basics right first.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Watch the very best sides do it. They ALWAYS have a man over and at the optimum time, transition in to the midfield area, having broken through any forward press.

Done well, it’s brilliant and has a very high success rate of creating a good offensive opportunity / overload.

FWIW, we aren’t there yet !!

UTB

 

[Trafford]

I'm not a fan of playing it short for the sake of it, as some of the "Premier Clubs" do but there were times on Saturday when we either had Bash and Stevens available to receive the ball but chose to kick long (few of which worked) or where the defenders passed it around between themselves and ended up passing back to Henderson to launch - they could have done that just as easily and with more accuracy!

 

[BushBlade]

I'm not a fan of playing it short for the sake of it, as some of the "Premier Clubs" do but there were times on Saturday when we either had Bash and Stevens available to receive the ball but chose to kick long (few of which worked) or where the defenders passed it around between themselves and ended up passing back to Henderson to launch - they could have done that just as easily and with more accuracy!

It really winds me up when teams pass it around the back, give it to the keeper and he launches it. It’s not just us, I’ve seen loads of teams doing it.

 

[Sheff de party]

Looks like I'm in the minority

Just sometimes seems a waste seeing the ball fly over such talented lads, I would argue the Sheff de party point about “less talented on the ball”

Stevens, JOC, Fleck, Norwood, Lunny and Mcgoldrick all very composed players with the ball at their feet. All 6 must have fantastic completed pass stats.

I believe Stevens has nutmegged somebody every single premier league game , seriously though we have come this far having “overlapping centre backs” surely we can trust them to control the ball and make a pass under abit of pressure?

I think the goals we conceded against Leicester and Palace are probably the best examples, but our defenders get caught in possession quite regularly. Fortunately they’re often way past the halfway line!

 

[BladeInIreland]

Part of me would like to see us play it short, like you say we are not great at Winning the ball anyway. The other part of me thinks we have made a few howler passes at the back already this season. I’m not sure I want to force more errors. Maybe when our confidence in this division is built a bit.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Agree we should dispense with Hendos kicking if possible.

It was a bit “Blackmanesque” v Liverpool I agree. I sit near the front of the South Stand and Hendo knocked 3 Bovrils out of my hand v Liverpool! I forgive him for his goalkeeping blunder but that chuff cost me about £9 in hot drinks!

 

[Digs blade]

No problem us playing it short but only if it is done without risk. Was it the Watford v Arsenal match this season where the arsenal goalie from a goal kick passed it to a defender who was stood on the 6 yard box. What on earth is that trying to achieve and in my opinion they got all they deserved when Watford took it off them and scored.

Talk about trying to be clever for the sake of it

 

[Silent Blade]

There is a higher risk of losing the ball and conceding a goal if you play the ball short inside the penalty box

 

[DronnieBlade]

There is a higher risk of losing the ball and conceding a goal if you play the ball short inside the penalty box

Yes. It is higher. But this must be balanced against the higher probability of what I said above.

It’s not for everyone, but done well it’s a thing of beauty .

UTB

 

[DronnieBlade]

It really winds me up when teams pass it around the back, give it to the keeper and he launches it. It’s not just us, I’ve seen loads of teams doing it.

Has it crossed your mind as to WHY many teams do this ?

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Has it crossed your mind as to WHY many teams do this ?

UTB

Yes, lots of times and I still don’t know. More often than not they lose possession. They’ve already forced their opponents back into their defensive positions so why not play it out from the back and retain possession?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Agree we should dispense with Hendos kicking if possible.

Should shut his legs, first job.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Yes, lots of times and I still don’t know. More often than not they lose possession. They’ve already forced their opponents back into their defensive positions so why not play it out from the back and retain possession?

Every situation is of course different. And what you state above can and does happen, often when defenders are being a bit lazy.

However, it is rare in the main for defenders to go back home to the keeper UNLESS they are being pressed.

The back to the goalie and then the hoof forward is designed to bypass the high pressed offensive players and cutting them (temporarily at least) out of the game.

This may (or may not) be successful at breaking the lines and will depend much on the accuracy of the keeper and the ability of the receiving player being capable of getting the ball under control and quickly looking for a player breaking from midfield or a wide ball for an overlapping wide player.

That’s the theory anyways !

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Every situation is of course different. And what you state above can and does happen, often when defenders are being a bit lazy.

However, it is rare in the main for defenders to go back home to the keeper UNLESS they are being pressed.

The back to the goalie and then the hoof forward is designed to bypass the high pressed offensive players and cutting them (temporarily at least) out of the game.

This may (or may not) be successful at breaking the lines and will depend much on the accuracy of the keeper and the ability of the receiving player being capable of getting the ball under control and quickly looking for a player breaking from midfield or a wide ball for an overlapping wide player.

That’s the theory anyways !

UTB

I was referring to when they’re not being pressed. Usually when the press has forced them back and then the pressers drop off as the ball is played back to the keeper. We did it once on Saturday, in the second half I think.

 

[Digs blade]

And i’ll say it again if anyone can explain the merits of a goalie passing the bell along his 6 yard box as in the Watford Arsenal match In any circumstances then I’d be very interested to know why this would be a wise thing to do. You’re 100% asking for trouble

 

[Dronfield Blade]

And i’ll say it again if anyone can explain the merits of a goalie passing the bell along his 6 yard box as in the Watford Arsenal match In any circumstances then I’d be very interested to know why this would be a wise thing to do. You’re 100% asking for trouble

Didn't see the game, I'm assuming the defender had space infront of him to carry the ball? FWIW im sure some teams do this hoping to drag an opposition striker in creating space for teammates to run in to. Like I say didn't see the example you are talking about.

 

[MalvernBlade]

Watching spurs highlights last night in their 7-2 mullering and it seemed like a fair few goals/chances came with spurs playing tippy tappy on the edge of their own box giving away possession. A goal keeper who can throw the ball with accuracy to start a quick attack and turn the opposition defence is a better alternative otherwise any slip up ends up in the back of your net usually.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

There is a higher risk of losing the ball and conceding a goal if you play the ball short inside the penalty box

Yep - and Arsenal fans sarcastically cheered when Leno played a long goal kick on Monday evening. A sign that they are fed up of them losing possession and goals from these daft short goal kicks.

The main advantage to gain from these short goal kicks is for counter attacks or situations where you need a quick release of the ball. Shouldn't be used when the opposition have had time to get into shape.