SwissBlade
Well-Known Member
Because Collins is a cunt....
Phipps and co were wrong in asking Collins for his side of story?
- Thread starter Silent Blade
- Start date
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Woodwardfan
Woodwardfan
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- #32
A number of things confuse me in this situation.
1. If a player is not playing to plan then why not substitute him if he is unprepared or unable to play to the plan?
2. Why not name the player and avoid this mindless speculation which has now even been dragged back to the previous manager's time.
As regards last Tuesday, the manager could have substituted Collins easily by dropping Edgar back and bringing on a midfielder.
Coutts was substituted after 62 minutes. Done was given a different role in 'the plan' but it was only me who mentioned Done anyway. Collins played the full game!!
Those are the only three candidates I've heard mentioned. Done is picked today, Coutts is sub and Collins is absent without explanation.
On the other hand all season Collins has been held up as a 'model pro' by Adkins, been picked week in week out and is on the team council that represents the players isn't he still? Collins hadn't played in a back 3 before though.
If playing in a Back 3 was a problem for Collins it should have come out in the preparations for the game. Was he playing too deep? I thought the whole team played too deep and way too negatively. Does a Back 3 play a high line? I don't think so.
Very confusing, but for us to drag in Clough and Phipps et al. is exactly why Adkins should not have handled this like he did. A 'model pro' doesn't deserve such focus when he strays out of line. Now Coutts, he's a different case altogether.
1. If a player is not playing to plan then why not substitute him if he is unprepared or unable to play to the plan?
2. Why not name the player and avoid this mindless speculation which has now even been dragged back to the previous manager's time.
As regards last Tuesday, the manager could have substituted Collins easily by dropping Edgar back and bringing on a midfielder.
Coutts was substituted after 62 minutes. Done was given a different role in 'the plan' but it was only me who mentioned Done anyway. Collins played the full game!!
Those are the only three candidates I've heard mentioned. Done is picked today, Coutts is sub and Collins is absent without explanation.
On the other hand all season Collins has been held up as a 'model pro' by Adkins, been picked week in week out and is on the team council that represents the players isn't he still? Collins hadn't played in a back 3 before though.
If playing in a Back 3 was a problem for Collins it should have come out in the preparations for the game. Was he playing too deep? I thought the whole team played too deep and way too negatively. Does a Back 3 play a high line? I don't think so.
Very confusing, but for us to drag in Clough and Phipps et al. is exactly why Adkins should not have handled this like he did. A 'model pro' doesn't deserve such focus when he strays out of line. Now Coutts, he's a different case altogether.
YES Blade
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So the sole reason Maguire went to Hull was due to the advice of Collins? Taking my Blades tinted specs off, Maguire was correct to leave United. He had proved all he needed to prove at League One level, so he was right to leave in order to play at a higher level, weather Hull was the right club for him is obviously open to debate.
sheffielder
Welcome Positive Nigel
The new word is coutt. Keep up
SwissBlade
Well-Known Member
Ok, Coutt is a cunt
GRUMPY BLADE
Well-Known Member
Collins and Doyle should have both been fucked off on after their debuts, we might just not be where we are now.
Both of them worthy of getting on Gutheries bus.
Silent Blade
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #37
Not questioning Maguire's decision but it was unprofessional of Collins to influence him. He is a Blade player and we are paying his wages so Maguire's decision on joining Hull is nothing to do with him!
SwissBlade
Well-Known Member
Yeah yeah but we can surely blame Collo anyway...
Bladesway
Not a member of the reaction faction
Fish wives are us. So much tittle tattle from so little information.
So far as Clough was concerned it has since been proven that in spite of his failings his aren't the main ones. Otherwise the players he had would have played better under a supposed better manager. Our results would have improved and we would have played better football. None of the above are happening but some still apparently want to point the failing at our previous manager or this one.
Clue. The real problem lies elsewhere. The board giving players a voice as a tool to sack a manager? Only at S2. There is no wonder players can swan about taking drugs and underperforming. They are untouchable because people like Phipps and Co aren't actually professional enough to stick by the man they employed.
I think some of the snide side comments of Phipps since Clough departed do him no favours.
In short we keep sacking managers and it isn't working. Tells me that they aren't the issue.
So far as Clough was concerned it has since been proven that in spite of his failings his aren't the main ones. Otherwise the players he had would have played better under a supposed better manager. Our results would have improved and we would have played better football. None of the above are happening but some still apparently want to point the failing at our previous manager or this one.
Clue. The real problem lies elsewhere. The board giving players a voice as a tool to sack a manager? Only at S2. There is no wonder players can swan about taking drugs and underperforming. They are untouchable because people like Phipps and Co aren't actually professional enough to stick by the man they employed.
I think some of the snide side comments of Phipps since Clough departed do him no favours.
In short we keep sacking managers and it isn't working. Tells me that they aren't the issue.
Bladesway
Not a member of the reaction faction
Think you are naive if you think this doesn't happen all the time silent. You don't have to be brain of Britain to see Hull are a better option than SUFC. For crying out loud Burton Albion are a better option.
YES Blade
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So if your mate at work asked you your opinion on if he should take a job at a rival company you wouldn't give it?
I don't know the details of what happened but I very much doubt it was anything more than telling him it would be a good career move.
If Collins acted as Maguire's agent then that is unprofessional, giving your mate your opinion on a career move is what mates do for each other.
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
but the board can't take sides and they can only get the full picture by listening to both sides of a disagreement.
Their job is then to get to the bottom of what actually happened not what the manager or the player said.
I'm all for the board having full control and there's always two sides to any argument. That's why they need to hear both sides to make informed decisions
UTB
Silent Blade
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- #43
So we carry on sacking managers every year or two then?
Alfreton14Blade
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Collins: "Clough was a twat, & he harmed my self-esteem."
Jim: "Sorry to hear that, Neill. Here, sign this contract extension, & I can reassure you that you'll be a mainstay of the defence next season."
Collins: "I'm feeling better already..."
Jim: "Sorry to hear that, Neill. Here, sign this contract extension, & I can reassure you that you'll be a mainstay of the defence next season."
Collins: "I'm feeling better already..."
Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen
We defy you! Do your worst!
Work it out.
Collins / Maguire. Maguire leaves, Collins has one less player in a similar position to contend with.
We were never going to find anyone close to what Harry was when he left, it seems to be going okay for him at the moment, so on reflection a good move. If Clough banished Collins for "advising" him to move, that says more about Clough than it does the player. One of the key areas that we needed sorting last season, this season we're still paying for Clough's tantrum(s).
Collins is still here, Clough isn't.
Hopefully by the start of 2016/17, Collins might have too. No disrespect to the player, but it's time now that the manager strengthened the spine of the team, starting from goalkeeper. That's another thread in itself.
Edit : Clough may have some extraordinary "powers" over former players he's worked with, maybe he didn't like it when he may have been undermined by Collins? Any player coveted by a club in a higher league will have more than a colleague advising him.. So why was Collins made the scapegoat if that's what he did?
Collins / Maguire. Maguire leaves, Collins has one less player in a similar position to contend with.
We were never going to find anyone close to what Harry was when he left, it seems to be going okay for him at the moment, so on reflection a good move. If Clough banished Collins for "advising" him to move, that says more about Clough than it does the player. One of the key areas that we needed sorting last season, this season we're still paying for Clough's tantrum(s).
Collins is still here, Clough isn't.
Hopefully by the start of 2016/17, Collins might have too. No disrespect to the player, but it's time now that the manager strengthened the spine of the team, starting from goalkeeper. That's another thread in itself.
Edit : Clough may have some extraordinary "powers" over former players he's worked with, maybe he didn't like it when he may have been undermined by Collins? Any player coveted by a club in a higher league will have more than a colleague advising him.. So why was Collins made the scapegoat if that's what he did?
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
I haven't said that anywhere.
In fact I said just the opposite on the "new manager poll" thread at 11.01 today.
All I am saying is that if the board want to make informed decisions then they need to look at issues from all angles so there is nothing wrong with canvassing opinion from all sides. Not only is there nothing wrong with it but they would be stupid not to do it.
Silent Blade
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- #47
Collins advice to Maguire wasnt exactly a private one. It is right for Clough to be disappointed with Collins and "punished" him so that the other players wont do the same to what Collins did
Silent Blade
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- #48
Am sure Phipps and co will now realise that Clough was right after all and they will now regret in believing in what Collins had told them.
Bladesway
Not a member of the reaction faction
Don't agree. It's Clough who takes the responsibility over the team and Clough who makes the decisions. Either he is in charge or he isn't. This stinks of interference where it isn't needed. The money men don't have a clue about team affairs so why should they be involved?
Fjortoft's Aeroplane
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I thught it was Andy Butler that told Maguire to go? Hence him never playing a game.
super_pig
Well-Known Member
just did the same. .i need a paracetamol
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
Because they pay Clough and they hire and fire (wrongly in my opinion) him.
It would be ridiculous to back him at any cost if there is unrest in the camp.
I don't know why Clough was sacked but I'm certain it wasn't because one player said "that nasty Mr Clough is being unfair to me, either he goes or I do."
I prefer to believe that Clough was at odds with the board over future recruitment, salary policy and general direction of the club.
It's the board's job to determine the strategy and the manager's job to implement it. I feel that was where the significant issues lay.
Silent Blade
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- Thread starter
- #54
If Phipps listens to McNulty, Scougall etc then do you think it would be right for him to sack Atkins based on what he heard from them?
JohnDenver
¡No Pasarán!
I wonder what made Maguire's mind up?
The advice of a lower-league journeyman defender, or the prospect of becoming a millionaire.
The advice of a lower-league journeyman defender, or the prospect of becoming a millionaire.
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
If you listened to what I say you would realise that
a) I didn't think Clough should have been sacked based on the information that was in the public arena
b) I don't think Adkins should be sacked based on what is in the public arena
c) Clough won't have been sacked because Neil Collins (or any other player) said he should be.
d) The board has ultimate control of the club and the responsibility to consider ALL relevant factors when making significant decisions.
You need to take a step back from your one item agenda and try and see a bigger picture, other than that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Injured
Silent Blade
Well-Known Member
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- #58
My point is that Clough thought Collins was disruptive and he was proven right last Tuesday
Thought that was Butler? I thought Clough pretty much blamed Collins for Swindon scoring five against us at their place?
Maidenhead
Well-Known Member
which is fair enough but that's not why Clough got the sack
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