People calling for wilder to go…

[Nick Jansky]

I never claimed that our success should be measured by whether we are beating them. I mentioned it as one of the many positives this season.

The game has changed, at least at the very top. Mistakes, giving away possession, can be punushed ruthlessly by the opposition, as Cardiff found out yesterday. This means that teams must be more careful than ever about conceding possession. Wilder and his staff know this, and as a result we are playing more cautiously than the days of the overlapping centre backs. This doesn't mean we're playing badly. We're seeing great pieces of individual skill, sliderule passes, press, taking men on in the box, shooting when we get a chance...the football really isn't awful though it is more possession-based.

You listed a number of areas of superiority to the Pigs, not just beating them. Looked like the primary reason you’re clapping to me. To be fair, you also mentioned being in the top 3, but we should be with our wage bill & quality.

If you’re enjoying what we’ve been watching this season that’s fine, maybe others are a bit more discerning and like to be entertained. It’s been turgid.

 

[Dkc]

You listed a number of areas of superiority to the Pigs, not just beating them. Looked like the primary reason you’re clapping to me. To be fair, you also mentioned being in the top 3, but we should be with our wage bill & quality.

If you’re enjoying what we’ve been watching this season that’s fine, maybe others are a bit more discerning and like to be entertained. It’s been turgid.

If you were the manager, what changes would you make?

 

[Rodley]

FFS. Some people. I'm not a clapper, I'm not even a Wilder fan. But his team has averaged over 2 points a game so far this season. That's better than anyone in the country bar Liverpool, Leeds, Burnley & Birmingham. Yes, the football hasn't been great but considering the state we were in at the end of last season, to say he's fucked our season over is just nonsense.

We were in a mess in the summer. The overhaul has been significant and largely very successful. Football hasn’t been great, but the likelihood of it being so is slim given we built a new team on the hoof and have had a job lot of injuries.

 

[Nick Jansky]

If you were the manager, what changes would you make?

I’d prefer to be the owner thanks, and I’d be changing the manager as soon as this season finishes, at the same time as appointing a Director of Football.

 

[Dkc]

I’d prefer to be the owner thanks, and I’d be changing the manager as soon as this season finishes, at the same time as appointing a Director of Football.

Who would you appoint instead? Would Wilder's entire coaching staff be sacked too, all with payoffs? And who would your DoF be?

You obviously think Wilder has performed poorly this season, despite the need for a full rebuild and the Arblaster / Soutter injuries. What has Wilder done so wrong this season that makes him deserving of the sack?

 

[Davalon]

It's clearly obvious that a good proportion of fans don't have the same support for Wilder that they have previously.

In my experience that's not just down to the 'back door', it's more cumulative.

We're going to finish higher than I anticipated at the start of the season but I was still hoping play offs. Our points return will be very good if as expected we finish third.

The issue though is what happens here and now. We've limped to many victories this season against teams further down the league so it's not surprising we've been edged out in some too. The facts are though that we've capitulated in three games with poor performances and some questionable selections when 9 points should have been in our grasp. The frustrating part is that just a very disappointing 3 would still have it in our own hands.

In my circle even the most staunch Wilder supporters are now severely questioning him and not just based on the results.

The reality is he now really divides our support. It's not about being right or wrong, it's a clear fact.

Even if he manages to guide us through the play offs, which he'll deserve enormous credit for, I think a good proportion of fans will still not be convinced about him taking us forward.

And let's cut to the chase, imho if the current circumstances were being managed by AN Other from London or France, some of those vehemently supporting Wilder, wouldn't be.

 

[Iffy Onuora's Shiny Head]

The team plays so similar to the one that got promoted under Hecky. The difference is there wasn't 2 other teams to compete with like this one.

In that season too, we ground out 80% of our results by a goal or so and never ever looked convincing and helped a lot by the brilliance of Ndiaye.

I look at someone like Burrows who I feel started the season excellent but as time has come on, he's seemed to have had his flair taken away from him and coached out of him, not helped by having Hamer always going walk abouts in front of him

 

[DI36O]

Using an extreme example to highlight potential absurdity is absurd
I imagine Forest fans are delighted with Nuno's football.
Of course they might think differently if they'd suffered the shite we have and if they had played that way,arguably wouldn't be challenging for Europe.

Torrix entire point was context and expectations are irrelevant though.
Obviously if Forest drop to 6th you'd still say they've had a great season regardless of whether they could keep up with fundamentally better sides in April/May.
How about Bristol City, if they lose their last 3 would they then their manager having bottled the playoff places?
Why is it irrelevant specifically in our case but not in others?

 

[gordoncharles]

...the football really isn't awful though it is more possession-based.

That is a matter of opinion. There are lots of fans, myself included, who think that for 80% of the time it is awful. When the results don't arrive its full awfulness is thrown into sharp relief.

We play decent football usually for between 10-20 minutes in any 90+ minute game - usually on the counter-attack as we are devoid of attacking ideas against any side that decides just to defend its own penalty area.

This would actually be a decent set-up if we were in the Premier League, though we would need at least 8 new PL quality players just to make an initial starting XI out of those we currently have. In the meantime the club is meant to be considering renewing contracts to at least a couple who shouldn't even be in the frame should we fail to go up.

Aside from notable home matches with Middlesbrough and Coventry we haven't shown up well against any team in top eight which gives me zero confidence in the event of promotion and not much, if I'm honest, if we don't, because 1-0s can easily turn into 1-1s and 0-1s.

We're at a crossroads and we've stalled.

 

[DI36O]

Exactly that

Expectations mean fuck all. Reality does.

Why did you say this then?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Who would you appoint instead? Would Wilder's entire coaching staff be sacked too, all with payoffs? And who would your DoF be?

You obviously think Wilder has performed poorly this season, despite the need for a full rebuild and the Arblaster / Soutter injuries. What has Wilder done so wrong this season that makes him deserving of the sack?

It’s not my job to be identifying a DoF or a manager, but I am on record here as stating that I believe we missed a massive opportunity by not taking Rosenior when the opportunity was there. I want a forward thinking head coach of his ilk, or an Iraola/Hurzeler/Frank type. They are out there.

I don’t need to re-list all the reasons that I don’t rate Wilder, that’s already been done to death, but there are a lot. These include, but are not limited to, his prioritisation of signing Cannon over a quality Souttar replacement; his persistence with playing Robinson as a result of that failure; his obsession with British players and “pashun”; his parochialism; his cowardly football; his tactical ineptitude; playing square pegs in round holes (BBD on the right??? Burrows in CM?????); the unprofessional way in which he conducts himself; the failure to control our players; his insistence that winning is all that counts until we’re losing, then suddenly “70% possession” means that everything’s ok.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

I think first time Wilder was here there was no criticism for him at all, we were all in it together.

It is now beyond dispute that unfortunately the fans are divided in their opinions on him, much like Warnock and Bassett towards the end.

Prepare for fans fighting amongst themselves next.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I think first time Wilder was here there was no criticism for him at all, we were all in it together.

It is now beyond dispute that unfortunately the fans are divided in their opinions on him, much like Warnock and Bassett towards the end.

Prepare for fans fighting amongst themselves next.

Yes, unless the end is mercifully quick and decisive I have little doubt this will be happening.

 

[Rodley]

It’s not my job to be identifying a DoF or a manager, but I am on record here as stating that I believe we missed a massive opportunity by not taking Rosenior when the opportunity was there. I want a forward thinking head coach of his ilk, or an Iraola/Hurzeler/Frank type. They are out there.

I don’t need to re-list all the reasons that I don’t rate Wilder, that’s already been done to death, but there are a lot. These include, but are not limited to, his prioritisation of signing Cannon over a quality Souttar replacement; his persistence with playing Robinson as a result of that failure; his obsession with British players and “pashun”; his parochialism; his cowardly football; his tactical ineptitude; playing square pegs in round holes (BBD on the right??? Burrows in CM?????); the unprofessional way in which he conducts himself; the failure to control our players; his insistence that winning is all that counts until we’re losing, then suddenly “70% possession” means that everything’s ok.

TBF Holding looks a quality replacement for Souttar and will make a major difference to our playoff hopes.

 

[Gin&Juice]

TBF Holding looks a quality replacement for Souttar and will make a major difference to our playoff hopes.

Agreed. But as nopigfansintown keeps saying, he’s well behind on fitness. Probably have to treat him halfway to like Ledley King or Paul McGrath.

Robbo is no where near Holding or Souttars level. We’d be up by now if it was that same back 3 and Cooper that started the season.

 

[Dkc]

I want a forward thinking head coach of his ilk, or an Iraola/Hurzeler/Frank type. They are out there.

That was the idea when we got Slav in. Foreign, forward-thinking, progressive...and he had a good record of getting teams out of this division.

It's possible Slav would have got us up if we had allowed him to build his own squad and change our style of play over 2-3 seasons. The problem these days is that people want instant success. Slav isn't a bad manager, but he wasn't given the time needed to turn things around. Who's to say that Iraola, Frank, Hurzeler or anyone else would have instant success? It's far more likely they'd be hounded out by the fans (describing the football as 'turgid') after less than a season

Wilder has a proven track-record of success in the EFL, as well as great success in his only full 'normal' season in the PL. He's got us up challenging for the autos this season against all odds. I doubt any manager could have done better.

 

[utd4ever]

That was the idea when we got Slav in. Foreign, forward-thinking, progressive...and he had a good record of getting teams out of this division.

It's possible Slav would have got us up if we had allowed him to build his own squad and change our style of play over 2-3 seasons. The problem these days is that people want instant success. Slav isn't a bad manager, but he wasn't given the time needed to turn things around. Who's to say that Iraola, Frank, Hurzeler or anyone else would have instant success? It's far more likely they'd be hounded out by the fans (describing the football as 'turgid') after less than a season

Wilder has a proven track-record of success in the EFL, as well as great success in his only full 'normal' season in the PL. He's got us up challenging for the autos this season against all odds. I doubt any manager could have done better.

Christ! “ against all the odds”.
He got given money to bolster the team in Jan and wasted it. We should be top not 3rd after losing 3 games to poor teams.

 

[Dkc]

Christ! “ against all the odds”.
He got given money to bolster the team in Jan and wasted it. We should be top not 3rd after losing 3 games to poor teams.

There are 23 teams in the division. Many of them have spent a lot of money this season. Why 'should we be top'?

 

[Nick Jansky]

That was the idea when we got Slav in. Foreign, forward-thinking, progressive...and he had a good record of getting teams out of this division.

It's possible Slav would have got us up if we had allowed him to build his own squad and change our style of play over 2-3 seasons. The problem these days is that people want instant success. Slav isn't a bad manager, but he wasn't given the time needed to turn things around. Who's to say that Iraola, Frank, Hurzeler or anyone else would have instant success? It's far more likely they'd be hounded out by the fans (describing the football as 'turgid') after less than a season

Wilder has a proven track-record of success in the EFL, as well as great success in his only full 'normal' season in the PL. He's got us up challenging for the autos this season against all odds. I doubt any manager could have done better.

Parker has arguably done a better job with a similar or bigger rebuild to carry out.

Hopefully we will have learned from the mistakes we made by not backing Slav & giving him time. If “instant success” is dragging us up to be an embarrassment next season, I don’t want it. Let’s build something worthwhile and fit for the future, it’s time to move on from the same old. I don’t think the new owners are here to appease a bunch of old blokes mired in the past so I’m hoping they’ll be of similar mind. At some point the fans, very divided at the moment, are going to need to coalesce around a vision for the club, and new ownership brings that opportunity. Some will still be left in the past, afraid of change, but that can’t be helped.

 

[Dkc]

Parker has arguably done a better job with a similar or bigger rebuild to carry out.

Hopefully we will have learned from the mistakes we made by not backing Slav & giving him time. If “instant success” is dragging us up to be an embarrassment next season, I don’t want it.

If learning from mistakes means giving a manager time to build, then surely Wilder should be given more than one full season in the Championship (presuming we don't go up)

Or are you saying that 57 is too old?

 

[Nick Jansky]

If learning from mistakes means giving a manager time to build, then surely Wilder should be given more than one full season in the Championship (presuming we don't go up)

Or are you saying that 57 is too old?

I’ve already explained why I don’t think he’s the man for the job.

 

[Nick Jansky]

TBF Holding looks a quality replacement for Souttar and will make a major difference to our playoff hopes.

If only he had been given minutes to get fully match fit…

 

[ATL Recs]

That was the idea when we got Slav in. Foreign, forward-thinking, progressive...and he had a good record of getting teams out of this division.

It's possible Slav would have got us up if we had allowed him to build his own squad and change our style of play over 2-3 seasons. The problem these days is that people want instant success. Slav isn't a bad manager, but he wasn't given the time needed to turn things around. Who's to say that Iraola, Frank, Hurzeler or anyone else would have instant success? It's far more likely they'd be hounded out by the fans (describing the football as 'turgid') after less than a season

Wilder has a proven track-record of success in the EFL, as well as great success in his only full 'normal' season in the PL. He's got us up challenging for the autos this season against all odds. I doubt any manager could have done better.

Odds against him - third biggest budget in the division and a January shopping list that includes a striker for 10 million when a CH was top priority oh but gets another right back

 

[Yoonited]

Forest have played hoof and counterattack all season. They're the perfect example of results trumping entertainment. He's playing to their strengths and doing very well. That's his job.

Hoof.Of course youd play that with MGW in your side.Are you sure you've watched em.

 

[Rodley]

If only he had been given minutes to get fully match fit…

I don’t know enough about his fitness, but good to see him get the shirt and hopefully he keeps it now.

 

[Yoonited]

Torrix entire point was context and expectations are irrelevant though.
Obviously if Forest drop to 6th you'd still say they've had a great season regardless of whether they could keep up with fundamentally better sides in April/May.
How about Bristol City, if they lose their last 3 would they then their manager having bottled the playoff places?
Why is it irrelevant specifically in our case but not in others?

Ask Torrix mate.I've not mentioned his post.

 

[utd4ever]

There are 23 teams in the division. Many of them have spent a lot of money this season. Why 'should we be top'?

So you’re saying our players are not good enough for top/ top 2.

I think we have a very good team with a couple of prem class players.

Shame you don’t think they are.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Hoof.Of course youd play that with MGW in your side.Are you sure you've watched em.

Yeah, they get ball forward quickly play off their big man Chris Wood and use their pace in wide areas. Have you? Here you are, fewest passes completed in the whole league, Forest:

Top Passers - Premier League Team Stats

Test Team Description Translation

www.premierleague.com

 

[nopigfansintown]

That was the idea when we got Slav in. Foreign, forward-thinking, progressive...and he had a good record of getting teams out of this division.

It's possible Slav would have got us up if we had allowed him to build his own squad and change our style of play over 2-3 seasons. The problem these days is that people want instant success. Slav isn't a bad manager, but he wasn't given the time needed to turn things around. Who's to say that Iraola, Frank, Hurzeler or anyone else would have instant success? It's far more likely they'd be hounded out by the fans (describing the football as 'turgid') after less than a season

Wilder has a proven track-record of success in the EFL, as well as great success in his only full 'normal' season in the PL. He's got us up challenging for the autos this season against all odds. I doubt any manager could have done better.

Wilder is also totally revamping our formation. He had about two weeks at the end of the July window to do it. The team had barely shaken hands before the first game.

 

[Aston max]