Penalty Shootout Query / Sour Grapes?

[Sothall_Blade]

Apologies if this has been mentioned but I've been mostly avoiding the internet since Saturday.
How come Huddersfield had the double advantage of:-

a) Taking the first penalty
b) Taking penalties in front of their own fans

Somebody told me it was decided on the toss of a coin but if so surely you would only get one advantage or the other, not both.

If it's left to the referee to decide which end. Why would he choose Hudders' end rather than ours?

I'm sure it was all fair and above board but can anybody clear this up?

 

[Foxy]

If it's left to the referee to decide which end. Why would he choose Hudders' end rather than ours?

I'm sure it was all fair and above board but can anybody clear this up?

They definitely tossed a coin at least once, which appeared to be for who decided whether they took the first one or not.

Not sure how the end was decided, it's down to the ref... whether he made the decision alone I'm unsure.

One possible reason is that it was the end without the sun bearing down on the keepers face.

 

[Mousey]

They tossed twice and they won it twice. Both times you could see the ref asking the Huddersfield captain what he wanted to do.

 

[TarquinDelouche]

I noticed in the Champion's League final they tossed the coin twice. Lampard won the first one, and chose the away end. They then toss it again, and ask the other captain to call it, for who takes the first one.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

They definitely tossed a coin at least once, which appeared to be for who decided whether they took the first one or not.

Not sure how the end was decided, it's down to the ref... whether he made the decision alone I'm unsure. One possible reason is that it was the end without the sun bearing down on the keepers face.

That sounds feasible but if true it means that the FA are potentially giving one team a slight advantage before kick-off by allocating their fans the West side of the ground?

Surely it would be fairer to allow the winner of the toss to decide whether to choose ends or to kick first, as with the kick-off?

 

[Bladesman]

They tossed twice and they won it twice. Both times you could see the ref asking the Huddersfield captain what he wanted to do.

Yep saw the double coin toss clear as day on TV and Huddersfield won both.

They decided who would kick first and at what end of the pitch.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

They tossed twice and they won it twice. Both times you could see the ref asking the Huddersfield captain what he wanted to do.

I noticed in the Champion's League final they tossed the coin twice. Lampard won the first one, and chose the away end. They then toss it again, and ask the other captain to call it, for who takes the first one.

Ok, if that's true then it's turning the "lottery" of the penalty shootout into even more of a lottery based on two coin tosses. As I say, you should only be able to win the choice of one advantage or the other, not both.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Typical United. Cant even win in a coin toss.

1. If the coin is tossed and caught, it has about a 51% chance of landing on the same face it was launched. (If it starts out as heads, there's a 51% chance it will end as heads).
2. If the coin is spun, rather than tossed, it can have a much-larger-than-50% chance of ending with the heavier side down. Spun coins can exhibit "huge bias" (some spun coins will fall tails-up 80% of the time).
3. If the coin is tossed and allowed to clatter to the floor, this probably adds randomness.
4. If the coin is tossed and allowed to clatter to the floor where it spins, as will sometimes happen, the above spinning bias probably comes into play.
5. A coin will land on its edge around 1 in 6000 throws, creating a flipistic singularity.
6. The same initial coin-flipping conditions produce the same coin flip result. That is, there's a certain amount of determinism to the coin flip.
7. A more robust coin toss (more revolutions) decreases the bias.

 

[Bladesman]

Ok, if that's true then it's turning the "lottery" of the penalty shootout into even more of a lottery based on two coin tosses. As I say, you should only be able to win the choice of one advantage or the other, not both.

I always thought it was one coin toss as well.

 

[Kenilworth]

The ref was a compulsive tosser then?

Tossing twice seems to be an unnecessary extravagance, don't ya think?

 

[oaklandrdblade]

Quick question for those who know the laws of the game. If Taylor's pen had bounced back onto Smithies and gone in would it have counted? My gut instinct is no.

 

[Kenilworth]

Quick question for those who know the laws of the game. If Taylor's pen had bounced back onto Smithies and gone in would it have counted? My gut instinct is no.

That's a very good question.
I am tempted to say yes because it is all still the one movement. No other player has touched it so it should count.
Consider the scenario that the keeper parries the ball onto the post and as it rebounds it hits the back of his elbow and goes into the back of the net. That would be given I am pretty sure.

 

[jockdodds]

That's a very good question.
I am tempted to say yes because it is all still the one movement. No other player has touched it so it should count.
Consider the scenario that the keeper parries the ball onto the post and as it rebounds it hits the back of his elbow and goes into the back of the net. That would be given I am pretty sure.

Here is the definitive rule from the FIFA Laws of the Game;

"Procedure
• After the players have taken positions in accordance with this Law, the
referee signals for the penalty kick to be taken
• The player taking the penalty kick must kick the ball forward
• He must not play the ball again until it has touched another player
• The ball is in play when it is kicked and moves forward
When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time has
been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to be taken or
retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under
the crossbar:
• the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar and/or
the goalkeeper
The referee decides when a penalty kick has been completed."

So the ball can first hit the post/crossbar and the goalkeeper, or first hit the goalkeeper and the post/crossbar before crossing the line and a goal is awarded. With the proviso of course that "the referee decides when a penalty kick has been completed" which means of course that in the case of Sheffield United, it wouldn't count.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

I thought the ball had to 'stop' or go out of play. When I say 'stop' I mean it is under the control of the keeper or no longer in a situation where it can end up in the net, i.e. no goal. At this point, the referee would then deem that the penalty kick is completed.



This penalty was given as a goal because the ball hadn't stopped, i.e. wasn't under the keeper's control and staying out of the net.

 

[Selly]

Would it be beyond the wit of man to dispense with coin tosses in the playoffs and simply giving the choice othe team who finished higher???

Seems there is precious little advantage for being 8points ahead over 46 games...

 

[mickt]

i agree. what advantage is there at all for finishing 9 points in front of everyone else. seems very little if any.

 

[Russ]

Need to forget it and move on now lads.

We lost. End of.

Lets have a break then think about next season and get behind them.