Paul Coutts

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Grizzly blade said:
I have no agendas, I have always thought Coutts to be a decent player, often not performing for whatever reason. Much like Jamie Murphy was and many others in the game who go through such spells.
Other than score from a beautiful cross for a tap in....what else did Sharp offer?
Nowhere near enough to be considered one of three of the best performers.

Scougall was good, Duffy was good second half. Would like to see passing stats for the team, accuracy and distance travelled but I suspect Coutts was up there. Done ran his nuts off.

The back four was shaky still.
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Well all I can surmise is that Sharp has scored 50% of our goals this season and whatever he's done otherwise, he's doing his main job.
And not to dig at you personally but the attitude towards Sharp this season has been well......bizarre.
 

Grizzly blade said:
Interesting points.

I would say there is absolutely nothing wrong with a sideways or backwards pass. And from what I saw from Coutts was him getting the ball off the defence, often in a tight area, and more often than not keeping possession of the ball. He would move it on, then make some movement to get it back again.
He looked sharper and eager to receive the ball, and played long balls as well as short.

Granted, many of the longer passes didn't find their target, and he doesn't offer a goal threat. However, any player is capable of scoring, and with confidence and a consistent run in there it might change that.
He showed enough in that game to show he can do it. What he might need is a run in the team, settled partners and to work on partnerships with the forwards.

I still want to see more movement, and shorter sharper passes through midfield. I liked seeing Scougall making runs forwards, but he is a little lightweight. Shooting as mentioned elsewhere also needs a lot of work.

As we are now, I want to see the following midfield working in a five.
Coutts, Fleck, Basham....with Bash sat in front of the back four. Coutts and Fleck having free roles to just pass and move.
Scougall, Duffy as part of the midfield, and again with a free part to find space and run at players.

Obviously this means we either go three at the back and two up front, or retain four and go with one up top. I like 3-5-2 so would give that a go. Done has to be one based on work rate, and I would like to see genuine pace their too.
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Agree with your points on Coutts GB..Coutts for me should play in front of the back line in say a 4231...As you say,he's good at getting the ball off the defence facing his own goal and moving it on,and then showing for it again as we progress the attack...I could also see him at the base of a 3 in a 433.
Yesterday it was 442 for me,and he did a great job of just retaining possession and yes it could have gone square or back,but he was getting the ball down and settling things down and picking out players in space to get us going the other way..and then would link up again as the attack progressed.
 
finlaytheblade said:
Drunken pig more like!!
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Ha loser. If I was a pig fan I would want as many Coutts and basham type players in the blades team as possible because it will mean we will be stuck in league 1 for the next 20 years. They are not good enough it's blindingly obvious to anyone who has played football at any sort of level. Just because we scraped a win against Oxford by the skin of our teeth does not mean they are suddenly good players
 
Grizzly blade said:
Interesting points.

I would say there is absolutely nothing wrong with a sideways or backwards pass. And from what I saw from Coutts was him getting the ball off the defence, often in a tight area, and more often than not keeping possession of the ball. He would move it on, then make some movement to get it back again.
He looked sharper and eager to receive the ball, and played long balls as well as short.

Granted, many of the longer passes didn't find their target, and he doesn't offer a goal threat. However, any player is capable of scoring, and with confidence and a consistent run in there it might change that.
He showed enough in that game to show he can do it. What he might need is a run in the team, settled partners and to work on partnerships with the forwards.

I still want to see more movement, and shorter sharper passes through midfield. I liked seeing Scougall making runs forwards, but he is a little lightweight. Shooting as mentioned elsewhere also needs a lot of work.

As we are now, I want to see the following midfield working in a five.
Coutts, Fleck, Basham....with Bash sat in front of the back four. Coutts and Fleck having free roles to just pass and move.
Scougall, Duffy as part of the midfield, and again with a free part to find space and run at players.

Obviously this means we either go three at the back and two up front, or retain four and go with one up top. I like 3-5-2 so would give that a go. Done has to be one based on work rate, and I would like to see genuine pace their too.
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So this midfield of yours is very clough like apart from there is no murphy to get the goals. Where are the 70 goals coming from and which two of those players will get 10 each. It's not a game of picking your favourites
 
If I want an opinion on a midfielder, I'm always inclined to ask the people who made Nick Fucking-Montgomery a legend...

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sheffielder said:
So this midfield of yours is very clough like apart from there is no murphy to get the goals. Where are the 70 goals coming from and which two of those players will get 10 each. It's not a game of picking your favourites
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Clough like in which way?

I like a five man midfield. Out of the midfielders we have at the club we need to pick those able to make the best use of the ball. I believe that is Coutts and Fleck, plus Three more from Scougall, Duffy, Chapman, Basham and hopefully at least one more to come.
Now I thing Duffy is good for 8 minimum...as is Scougall. Fleck 5...and if regular games Coutts may get the same.
Now we can either go 3 at the back as my preference and two up top or leave one. Either way, I would expect 15-20 from Sharp...and double figures for Clark, with Done getting 8-10 also.

There will be the odd goal from centre half...maybe 10 in total. Plus own goals....should get to the 70 or so no problem. We don't need 70 goals divided between 5 players, so long as we crate decent chances someone will score the goals.

But Coutts never scores I hear you say.....and that has been the case to now. But doesn't mean he can't have a good season and get a few. After all Brown did it for one season and never got close before or after that one amazing season.
 
Whenever I watch highlights I always think Coutts looks top quality. Then I realise that it's not a slow motion replay, that's him in real time.

And it's not just pace of the player I'm talking about, he's not that slow, it's the pace of the play. Coutts is one of the worst for taking too many touches, missing a good early ball, rolling passes that need to be moved with pace, killing off the ball runs with his delay. That and the occasional nightmare pass that loses possession outright.

He did okay on Saturday. Occasionally he does make me think that he's got a lot more to give, and for a brief period last season I started to like him. But he's a prime example of what I've long referred to as "Michael Tonge syndrome". It's a condition that affects players and observers and convinces them that the occasional flash of quality is the real player. That Coutts isn't really the guy who's proven over a long period of time that he leads to slow, pedestrian, ineffective sideways passing. Deep down he's a creative, technically gifted, ball playing midfielder. Like how Tonge lived off his early promise and a great game out of every dozen for years.

Coutts is the guy that has been a part of a side that failed. He's a mid-table mediocre player, and he leads to clubs ending their season in mid-table mediocrity. It's akin to remembering Doyle putting a screamer in from outside the box and thinking "Well, we'll get him putting 15 of those in a season". It'd be nice, but it doesn't really work that way.

As ever, I'd absolutely love any player in our squad that I've criticised to make me look a total mug, but it's absolutely not something we should rely on.
 
Tyler Durden said:
I find it weird how popular opinion dictates who and who is not a good player.

Yesterday, Done, Scougall and Sharp were clearly the best performers but they are still deemed to be shit.

Coutts on the other hand has had some weird revival amongst many Unitedites and I wonder why. Yes he was ok against Southend when everyone else was terrible but he hardly shone on Saturday.
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I agree with the gist of your post and I thought Done and Scouggs did a job yesterday, Billy on the other hand was awful up until he scored, which to be honest was good of him to keep going and trying to get into good positions when he was having an off day, lets hope this kicks start his season and more importantly ours.

I have no doubt that Clarke would not have been able to do what Done did yesterday for the goal, Billy will realise this and hope that he doesn't have to play with Clarke much, if at all this season, lets hope CW realises this, it's there for everyone to see.
 
Drunk blade said:
Ha loser. If I was a pig fan I would want as many Coutts and basham type players in the blades team as possible because it will mean we will be stuck in league 1 for the next 20 years. They are not good enough it's blindingly obvious to anyone who has played football at any sort of level. Just because we scraped a win against Oxford by the skin of our teeth does not mean they are suddenly good players
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Go on then Mr Big shot ,what level did you play at ,was it easy playing next to Zinedine ?
 
PokerBlade said:
And it's not just pace of the player I'm talking about, he's not that slow, it's the pace of the play. Coutts is one of the worst for taking too many touches, missing a good early ball, rolling passes that need to be moved with pace, killing off the ball runs with his delay. That and the occasional nightmare pass that loses possession outright.
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Simply not true ,Coutts is the only one who actually gets his head up ,there is no point playing a quick pass to nobody like Baxter used to and lose possession. Ok it looks good when it comes off ,but its once out of 30 times and to quote the other guy anyone who has played at any level will know possession is the bomb ,and to win the ball back in the modern game is hard.
 
sitwell said:
,Coutts is the only one who actually gets his head up ,there is no point playing a quick pass to nobody like Baxter used to and lose possession.
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Why do you always bring Baxter up in a Coutts discussion?

Coutts looked the leanest I have seen him and played about the best I have seen him for a long while on Saturday (from what I saw on BP) but his attempts at forward or longer passes were not great (mostly to defenders feet or straight into touch). He is still a virtual passenger defensively and a virtual non-contributor in attack and certainly not good enough to build a team around. Against Oxford there was oodles of space to work with as they defended a lead from the 16th minute (who was supposed to close down the unmarked player firing in the shot that led to the goal? He had so much time it was believable) so the pressure on midfield was far less intense than could have been the case. I'll wait and see if he can turn those performances in week in and week out - be good if he could, but I doubt it. Either way he isn't good enough to play as part of a CM 2 in a promotion side as his stats show. New blood needed.
 
sitwell said:
Simply not true ,Coutts is the only one who actually gets his head up ,there is no point playing a quick pass to nobody like Baxter used to and lose possession. Ok it looks good when it comes off ,but its once out of 30 times and to quote the other guy anyone who has played at any level will know possession is the bomb ,and to win the ball back in the modern game is hard.
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The options aren't between a quick pass to nobody and being painfully slow. I'm all for possession football but it has to have control over the tempo, and that means being able to move the ball quickly in the attack. Otherwise you end up with David Weir's 70% possession and a 2-0 defeat. Coutts retains possession okay, not great but better than many at this level. He still isn't a player we can look to to take hold of games and dictate the pace and assist particularly well in the attack. I'm basing this on the fifty something appearances he's made for the club in which we've been a slow, turgid side.
 
Pinchy said:
If I want an opinion on a midfielder, I'm always inclined to ask the people who made Nick Fucking-Montgomery a legend...

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It's not fair to compare Monty to a traffic cone it was harder to get round one of them in training.

Mind you wasn't he Frank Lampards hardest ever opponent :-/
 

We've been here before......

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-enigma-that-is-paul-coutts.46215/page-8#post-990135

And I suspect we'll be visiting the subject again!

I'll just add that we looked a far better side in the 2nd half of the Southend game and the Oxford game (didn't go to Millwall) than we did in the Crewe or Rochdale games, in that at least we were capable of keeping the ball for more than 2 passes.

His work rate remains questionable and one would assume this is why he's on the transfer list and I don't think CW is the type to tolerate less than 100%.

His lack of goals is a concern, especially for one who seems technically gifted, however I don't buy into this crap about him not assisting or playing glory balls. He actually played a couple of really good through balls v Oxford, one in particular in the 2nd half where Done was marginally offside. I'd rather he just pass to a team mate and keep possession rather than trying balls that aren't 'on'. I like the way he plays with his head up and can switch play, one of the things that Baxter was good at. The other thing that people forget is that when you are a ball playing midfielder, you are relying on your team mates to make runs and find space so you can play them in, if no one moves for you then it's virtually impossible and that's when you see the ball being passed back and sideways and sometimes given away. I'm not saying Coutts is by any means the answer and it's the rest of the players fault but on the same token, it's a team game and everyone has to play their part for it to succeed. Personally, I'd rather we keep possession by playing back and sideways rather than just hopefully knocking it long.

I'm starting to sound like one of those dreaded team motivational videos now so that's enough from me!.
 
Hoping Coutts is playing for Wilder and not a move away after that performance tonight. He actively went looking for the ball and dominated the centre of the park. More of the same on a regular basis and a CM takes on far less importance
 
coaxingstar71 said:
We've been here before......

http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-enigma-that-is-paul-coutts.46215/page-8#post-990135

And I suspect we'll be visiting the subject again!

I'll just add that we looked a far better side in the 2nd half of the Southend game and the Oxford game (didn't go to Millwall) than we did in the Crewe or Rochdale games, in that at least we were capable of keeping the ball for more than 2 passes.

His work rate remains questionable and one would assume this is why he's on the transfer list and I don't think CW is the type to tolerate less than 100%.

His lack of goals is a concern, especially for one who seems technically gifted, however I don't buy into this crap about him not assisting or playing glory balls. He actually played a couple of really good through balls v Oxford, one in particular in the 2nd half where Done was marginally offside. I'd rather he just pass to a team mate and keep possession rather than trying balls that aren't 'on'. I like the way he plays with his head up and can switch play, one of the things that Baxter was good at. The other thing that people forget is that when you are a ball playing midfielder, you are relying on your team mates to make runs and find space so you can play them in, if no one moves for you then it's virtually impossible and that's when you see the ball being passed back and sideways and sometimes given away. I'm not saying Coutts is by any means the answer and it's the rest of the players fault but on the same token, it's a team game and everyone has to play their part for it to succeed. Personally, I'd rather we keep possession by playing back and sideways rather than just hopefully knocking it long.

I'm starting to sound like one of those dreaded team motivational videos now so that's enough from me!.
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Agree with all of that mate. Think he has looked really good so far this season. I would add also that he put himself about a bit more than usual vs Oxford, I seem to recall him getting a few decent tackles in. Definately an improvement on the last 2 seasons at least and if used correctly he could be like a new signing.
 
I also dont understand all the negativity that gets thrown Montys way. He did a job at the Lane and whilst never the best technically, he dug in and worked hard for the team. On his day he was a bloody arkward sod to play against. When he moved on it was the right time to go, but considering the tampons we had playing for us last season and their total lack of heart shown game after game, u would have thought some would have appreciated a lad who always gave his all to the team every match and never hid. That lad had more heart and cared more about the club than the entire team did from last season. I have nothing but best wishes for the lad.
 
spongebobblade said:
Hoping Coutts is playing for Wilder and not a move away after that performance tonight. He actively went looking for the ball and dominated the centre of the park. More of the same on a regular basis and a CM takes on far less importance
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Just wonder if the listing has made him realise that his sub standard displays couldnt go on being tolerated. Maybe its just because hes had an injury free pre season for a change and he is more confident with his body. Perhaps thats why CW isnt actively looking for a centre midfielder now. Hopefully Coutts comes good cos there is a player there somewhere. Would be a fantastic bonus if he did at last.
 
Well, sounds like that's 3 decent showings for Coutts on the bounce.

Always had the quality, lacked fitness for Clough. Had a useless twat in Adkins for a year.

This may well be the season he hits form. Coutts and Fleck please.
 
spongebobblade said:
Hoping Coutts is playing for Wilder and not a move away after that performance tonight. He actively went looking for the ball and dominated the centre of the park. More of the same on a regular basis and a CM takes on far less importance
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Showed some bollox. But for him to be actively seeking the ball as much as he did shows how much his confidence is right up there at the moment. I reckon Wilder's got into him.
 
Weasel said:
Just wonder if the listing has made him realise that his sub standard displays couldnt go on being tolerated. Maybe its just because hes had an injury free pre season for a change and he is more confident with his body. Perhaps thats why CW isnt actively looking for a centre midfielder now. Hopefully Coutts comes good cos there is a player there somewhere. Would be a fantastic bonus if he did at last.
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He's become a father of twins recently so you would hope he wants a settled and stable environment. He has ability. We all know it. We just need to see it more. Playing the two deeper midfielders allows him far more time to pick the forward pass he didn't manage as much. The role looks made for him
 
Paul even won the ball from the opposition at least 3 times last night. That is 3 more than the whole of last season.

It is just our luck if the impressive display he put on last night gained him a move away to another club and to excel for them with his regained fitness and confidence.
 
Iceybabey said:
Ran the show tonight. MOM performance. What do we think then? Is he playing for the shirt? The manager? A new contract? A contract elsewhere?
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Well as long as he's playing for a contract, then he's likely to have a good season, which is good news for us.

If we could then get him on a new deal on reasonable terms, that would be a bonus.

His form (for only 3 games) doesn't mean we don't need another central midfielder though - we do. We still have no goals and no solid, consistent player in our midfield.
 
Hodgyman said:
Paul even won the ball from the opposition at least 3 times last night. That is 3 more than the whole of last season.

It is just our luck if the impressive display he put on last night gained him a move away to another club and to excel for them with his regained fitness and confidence.
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See my earlier post re the Oxford game as well, where he got stuck in quite a bit at times. Most unlike him based on prior experience.
At the time I thought it was Basham or Wilson stepping out of defence to make the tackles and blamed my increasingly worsening eyesight.
 
True. We need someone in midfield that can get at least 10 goals for the season.
 

Glad this coutts thread has turned into a generic midfield/tactics/formation because i believe that a centre midfielder is a priority at present.........i know other positions need a look esp right back,but fleck needs a more foward getting partner.
Not enough contributing goals coming from middle of the park,which is a must for any team hoping to challenge.
 
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