Paul Coutts haters look away now

[Fulwood Blade]

What we need is players to suit our preferred system, not a system to suit our preferred players.

in the ideal world, that's great - but Clough put together a squad of 4-5-1 or certainly 5 in midfield whether it was by choice or luck.
Adkins didn't really suss that out until too late and then tried to belatedly play catch up.
CW has still inherited many of those types of players and for me, we look poor in a 4-4-2 scenario, which I am led to believe is more his style - or 4 at the back to be his prefered defence.
The bonus now, is the centre halves which enables us with three to look good and not bad with a two (ELL and O'C).

We still have too many players who can only play in a 5 man midfield.

The dilemma may come next season and what CW will do. This will depend on what division we are in.

3rd tier (means we have failed again) and he may go for another radical clear out
2nd tier - which means he may have to spend to get a more stable 4-4-2 in place.

Who'dbe a manager?

UTB

PS: it's 3-5-2 easily for me - just think we look vulnerable playing generally 2 lines of 4.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Heartening to know that all you have to do is go from being garbage to average in order to trigger a forum-wide throb on.

Go write your name in the stars Couttsy lad, you prince among men.

 

[Chali 2na]

What we need is players to suit our preferred system, not a system to suit our preferred players.

True. The best world teams have a system, then aquire players to suit said system.

However, Wilder's preferred systems appears (based on his time at Northampton) to be 4-4-2 & 4-2-3-1. He tried both to some degree earlier in the season, and neither seemed to come off. He's bravely shaken it up, playing 3-5-2 (maintaining Wilder's style of play), and despite my doubts about it as a system; it's working.
I'm sure Wilder will be able to revert back to his own system in time, but for now it's about picking up points while the team understand each other and the manager.

 

[sitwell]

Heartening to know that all you have to do is go from being garbage to average in order to trigger a forum-wide throb on.

Go write your name in the stars Couttsy lad, you prince among men.

See that's why people get pissed off ,an excellent discussion about the merits of different systems and how we can move on and then shit like this right in the middle.

 

[Tyler Durden]

See that's why people get pissed off ,an excellent discussion about the merits of different systems and how we can move on and then shit like this right in the middle.

*i.e something you don't agree with.

Sorry Mr Voice Of Reason.

 

[RammyBlade]

If only James Wallace could be resurrected in similar fashion..

I would love James Wallace to get fit even at this stage as he is a real class player and would add such a new dimension to our midfield
It might not be such a fantasy as he has completed the last 2 U23 matches in full so who knows it could happen! probably wont like but we live in hope !!

 

[Trigger Blade]

Let me know when you've seen him play.

Ha ha!

Sorry, I thought you said seen him pay and were talking about Barney.....

And then you crawled under your shell

A bit like you when the subject of donations is mentioned.

 

[Esablade]

I would love James Wallace to get fit even at this stage as he is a real class player and would add such a new dimension to our midfield
It might not be such a fantasy as he has completed the last 2 U23 matches in full so who knows it could happen! probably wont like but we live in hope !!

Step this way Boss...

 

[Barney]

Ha ha!

Sorry, I thought you said seen him pay and were talking about Barney.....



A bit like you when the subject of donations is mentioned.

Trigger, what is your fascination with my finances? It really is weird.

 

[Bladepicker]

About half a dozen of us have known all along. We are the Paul Couttstodians...

I find myself agreeing with you far too often these days.

Who are the other four?


Posted on 4th September http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/paul-coutts.48931/page-6#post-1105055

alcoblade and wizadry are big fans

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Sitwell for sure. I'm sure the others will name themselves. Personally I've been consistently Pro-Paul from day one, realising that his early form was entirely fitness related. Then again I like proper footballers rather than scrambling ragamuffins who run about a lot but can't play. Silly me.

Personally, I like players who can play AND run about. This season, Paul Coutts looks like he’s getting somewhere near that. Let’s hope he keeps it up. I think most have always acknowledged he has talent, it’s the fitness and attitude that has let him and us down for a long time.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

What about assists? Or semi assists, goals don't seem to come through him so I am waiting for him to produce before I jump on board. All I see is a player who is out of contract at the end of the season doing a little better

I’d like to see a bit more in that department but let’s not forget McDonald didn’t score or assist many but helped us control midfield always being available to receive a pass, switching the play, playing triangles to open the pitch up, playing through balls to the wide men to cross etc. Coutts does this to an extent but I think he can take more responsibility and do it more.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Remember it well Sitters. Wigan at home I think it was. Coutts had played well and been near motm in the last four games, but one game when our entire side was awful and he was the one who got slated.

I do think he seems fitter this season and more consistant but it is a myth to say he was awful before. As others have said, his first full pre season for 3 years might have helped a tad.

I remember that game. Coutts was coming off a good run of form (he’d been great against Bradford and Peterborough not long before). We were poor as a team that day but the thing that wound a lot of people up was when Coutts tried to take his man on and failed, he would show absolutely no effort to get back to try to win the ball back, he’d just stand there watching whenever he lost the ball. A lot of fans will forgive technical limitations before they’ll forgive a lack of effort. That’s why Coutts has had so much stick during his time here.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I was a Coutts hater, I'm slowly warming to him though after his fine start so far.

I have not been completely converted though, and I'm not sure I ever will. (I desperately hope I'm proved wrong)

His strengths are obviously his talent on the ball (passing, touch, calmness) and vision. Even I, being one of his bigger detractors recognised that.

My gripe is that other than his composure on the ball, what else does he offer?

• His goal ratio is embarrassing for an outfield player. (To put that into perspective, he's managed less goals in English football than Nick Montgomery - I'm looking at you Pinchy )
• The amount of opportunities created and assists is a little disappointing for a player of his technical ability.
• While his ball control and dribbling ability is great, he is slow, so can't take men out the game with the ball at his feet.
• He's poor when we don't have the ball. If you're lucky, he'll manage a couple of tackles a game and he isn't capable of pressing the opposition for 90 minutes. (Meaning his CM partner has to compensate)

So ultimately, I have no doubts about his technical ability but is that enough to justify his place in the side? I would love to be convinced by the way: if someone has a compelling argument?

For now, with what we have and in the system we’re playing I think it is enough to justify his place. We look a better team with him than without him at present.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

After getting no goals or assists last season I'm delighted he has turned this around this season.

He got an assist at home to Bradford. Laid on a chance even Connor Sammon couldn’t miss.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I agree with most of the above.

However, you acknowledge that a 3-5-2 relies on great wing backs. While Freeman is playing well, he can be defensively suspect and we have no cover if he gets injured. At left back we have Lafferty who I would describe as 'decent' and Hussey (who I'd prefer not to describe, at risk of being named a slasher.)

In a formation that relies so heavily on wing backs, are we really using "a system which suits our best players"?

So far, the results are coming and Wilder knows more about suitable formations than me. I don't think it's unfair to question though, whether 3-5-2 is a long term solution, and if not; where would Coutts fit in?

I think what the 352 does is make the best use of EEL, JOC (having Wright as sweeper to let them attack everything), Freeman (allows him to get forward and EEL takes some defensive responsibility from him) Coutts and Basham (cover each others weaknesses), Duffy (allows him to get central with attacking license meaning his lack of pace is less of an issue) and the front 2 (3 in midfield means they get a lot more ball to feet rather than having to “make it stick” which they struggled to do with Tuesday’s 442). That’s most of the team benefiting for me. We don’t have sensational wingers. We don’t have a target man available and we don’t have the legs in midfield to play 442 so I think this really helps us. I’d like someone quicker than Lafferty in the LWB role but at least he looks a decent crosser of the ball.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Paul Coutts.

Our best footballer

 

[Bladesway]

Heartening to know that all you have to do is go from being garbage to average in order to trigger a forum-wide throb on.

Go write your name in the stars Couttsy lad, you prince among men.

Back to setting the bar low and never been disappointed.

 

[blade67]

I wouldn't say moving him from central midfield to central midfield is the reason behind his turnaround...

I put it down to these things:

Manager with a clue
Sustained spell of fitness including a full pre season
Wake up call being transfer listed with no other club being willing to get close to his current wage
Last year of contract
Better team mates

So it's not that staggering, he's always had the ability after all.

was about to write something similar, CM to CM is not a significant change of position to the best of my knowledge.

BTW - is there any such thing as a Coutts hater? I know loads of people who didn't think he was worth a place in the team and now think that he is.

Also, totally agree with Gage on the black boots. Could become a legend for that alone

 

[alcoblade]

alcoblade and wizadry are big fans

I've hated him as a player for 2 years, but as I've said elsewhere I'm enjoying watching the team as it is right now, and Coutts is an integral part of that team.

I've never needed to be proved right over and above watching our team being successful.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Heartening to know that all you have to do is go from being garbage to average in order to trigger a forum-wide throb on. That's not a teary eyed assessment of his performance, just recognition of improvement and actual substantive contribution.

Go write your name in the stars Couttsy lad, you prince among men.

No throb on from me, just my ongoing assessment of where I see us at, as it plays out. He's contributing at last, and I'm happy to recognise it.

There are plenty who want to hold on to opinions no matter what's in front of them. I'm not one of them.

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

Maidenhead ,Hermitage , Rodley ,Deffo Bladepicker who backed me when I was fighting a lone battle one week when he had an off one

Me too!!

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I've always liked Coutts there is ability on the ball particularly under pressure that literally none of the rest of the squad has got. Think we havn't seen the best due to changing managers, fitness, shite teammates ( I mean who wants to pass the ball to Hammond?) and his head going down.

Is anyone else surprised wilder hasn't really tried his favoured 4-2-3-1 yet?

Lafferty looks more confortable at lb and not Lwb and Freeman is capable of playing both roles
EEL and O'Connell have looked decent enough in a 2 at the back.
You introduce fleck into the side in either 2 or more advance as well as playing an in form coutts and the only player who can really tackle in basham
And you can choose between Duffy / Lavery / Chapman / Done / Brooks for spare positions in the 3
and interchange Billy and whoever uptop depending on form

 

[Tyler Durden]

No throb on from me, just my ongoing assessment of where I see us at, as it plays out. He's contributing at last, and I'm happy to recognise it.

There are plenty who want to hold on to opinions no matter what's in front of them. I'm not one of them.

UTB

The circumstances have already changed my view of Freeman for instance, who I wanted gone at the close of last season. I'm happy to acknowledge his vast improvement. I think Coutts has improved too actually, just not enough to warrant him being everyones flavour of the month.

But I do agree with your last paragraph, because there's plenty on here who are determined to slate Scougall and Sharp at every given turn, for no good reason at all. Which is something I hate quite frankly.

 

[alcoblade]

The circumstances have already changed my view of Freeman for instance, who I wanted gone at the close of last season. I'm happy to acknowledge his vast improvement. I think Coutts has improved too actually, just not enough to warrant him being everyones flavour of the month.

But I do agree with your last paragraph, because there's plenty on here who are determined to slate Scougall and Sharp at every given turn, for no good reason at all. Which is something I hate quite frankly.

I think it's human nature to express opinion at either end of a spectrum, and also to overreact to short term performance.

Consider the large majority of fans who are happy to be convinced that Nigel Adkins either turned shit overnight, or achieved 4 promotions by luck. That based on one really poor year under difficult circumstances, and 2 shit signings. Football fans are incredibly fickle in their views, yet loyal in their support.

UTB

 

[MobileBlade]

Always been a 4-4-2 man myself ,but Ive changed since Ive seen us play 3-5-2. It gives a lot more flexibility and you cant combat other team who play this system with a 4-4-2. It has disadvantages in that its easy for sides to attack you down the flanks ,which means your 2 wide men have to be alert and fit ,and you must have 3 good defenders. Oconnell and EEL are looking very good for me ,weak link is Duffy atm but he may get better. I think we have a to play a system which suits our best players so as players come and go we will have to adapt.

We did play 4-4-2 on Tuesday night though Sitsl (actually I think it was more 4-3-1-2 with the way Duffy floated in a sort of number 10 role). Darren Clarke made the comment that we surprised him as he was expecting us to set up with 3 centre halfs.

 

[spongebobblade]

We did play 4-4-2 on Tuesday night though Sitsl (actually I think it was more 4-3-1-2 with the way Duffy floated in a sort of number 10 role). Darren Clarke made the comment that we surprised him as he was expecting us to set up with 3 centre halfs.

Think our hands were forced Tuesday night due to the lack of centre halves. He could have started Reece Brown possibly but maybe he needs more settling in time? Fully expect us to revert back to 3-5-2 today

 

[wizadry]

What we are getting from Coutts at the moment is the least we deserve, he's mugged us as fans off for way too long, it's about time he repaid some of the support and loyalty shown to him. And no, that doesn't mean just three or four games.

 

[sitwell]

He got an assist at home to Bradford. Laid on a chance even Connor Sammon couldn’t miss.

Didn't he lay one on a plate at Chesterfield too ?

We did play 4-4-2 on Tuesday night though Sitsl (actually I think it was more 4-3-1-2 with the way Duffy floated in a sort of number 10 role). Darren Clarke made the comment that we surprised him as he was expecting us to set up with 3 centre halfs.

We were forced into it on Tuesday and was the reason we didn't dominate as much. I actually think Wilder would prefer 4-4-2 but your have to get 2 really good midfielders to play that these days as they will invariably be up against 3 opposition. Duffy has been the disappointment for me so far ,he tends to break moves down and haven't seen that much from him yet. Hope he comes good because he has talent.

What we are getting from Coutts at the moment is the least we deserve, he's mugged us as fans off for way too long, it's about time he repaid some of the support and loyalty shown to him. And no, that doesn't mean just three or four games.

Is it always going to be 3 or 4 games in some peoples eyes ,even though its far more. Why wont people accept that he didn't 'mug us off' ,same as Brayford didn't ,these guys have come back from bad injury in the game that earns them a living. You have to give them time to heal both mentally and physically ,to say they are mugging us off is totally unfair.

 

[wizadry]

Didn't he lay one on a plate at Chesterfield too ?


We were forced into it on Tuesday and was the reason we didn't dominate as much. I actually think Wilder would prefer 4-4-2 but your have to get 2 really good midfielders to play that these days as they will invariably be up against 3 opposition. Duffy has been the disappointment for me so far ,he tends to break moves down and haven't seen that much from him yet. Hope he comes good because he has talent.


Is it always going to be 3 or 4 games in some peoples eyes ,even though its far more. Why wont people accept that he didn't 'mug us off' ,same as Brayford didn't ,these guys have come back from bad injury in the game that earns them a living. You have to give them time to heal both mentally and physically ,to say they are mugging us off is totally unfair.

To be fair sitters I don't blame Coutts for being played when unfit, after all he doesn't pick the team.

This season it's been three to four games where he has done well, I'm not going to write off what's gone off before but I'll try in future not to bring it up, it's hard though when I know he could've done so much more last season.

If he plays well I'll say so, I said on Tuesday that the second half was very good from Coutts, he even made some lung bursting runs forward which I was very pleased to see and he played one ball in the first half to Duffy out wide in front of Duffy to run onto which was perfect but Duffy wasn't or isn't on the same wavelength has Coutts and didn't move for it and it went out for a throw in. There was nothing wrong with the ball and it's what I like to see, a ball played in front of someone with loads of space to attack, it's a pet hate of mine when players don't make the pass Coutts made when it's clearly on.