Paranoid moi?

[SelbyBlade]

I was wandering why Nigel was talking about playing the kids. We have Harry's money so there is no need for him to scrimp as such. I may have just moved to the glass half full "who owns the freehold" (how can someone "own" a freehold the clue is in the word free) side, but have the board just let him down and pocketed the Harry money? If this is the case is Clough playing the kids to get sacked? Paranoid instead of enjoying it is a horrible place to be.
So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SwissBlade]

I was wandering why Nigel was talking about playing the kids. We have Harry's money so there is no need for him to scrimp as such. I may have just moved to the glass half full "who owns the freehold" (how can someone "own" a freehold the clue is in the word free) side, but have the board just let him down and pocketed the Harry money? If this is the case is Clough playing the kids to get sacked? Paranoid instead of enjoying it is a horrible place to be.
So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Clough is finally doing what I've said for a long time. Throwing money at a problem hasn't worked in this division. Perhaps, following last seasons success under clough, it might come down to good old fashioned football management, taking talented players not expensive players and achieving success this way.

Keep it up Cloughie!

 

[SelbyBlade]

Clough is finally doing what I've said for a long time. Throwing money at a problem hasn't worked in this division. Perhaps, following last seasons success under clough, it might come down to good old fashioned football management, taking talented players not expensive players and achieving success this way.

Keep it up Cloughie!

Just for devil's advocate stuff, we had good players under him last season and did well, until we got those players we were shit. The jan window was his catalyst.

 

[SwissBlade]

Just for devil's advocate stuff, we had good players under him last season and did well, until we got those players we were shit. The jan window was his catalyst.

We've lost Harry and Brayford which I would say are big losses, but both are playing at a higher level, rightly so. We shifted the squad fillers and gained many new players. Of the new players I saw from Saturday, only Basham and McNulty didn't give any sign of their potential. JCR is on the border. The rest showed some signs of potential and they've cost little, we've room to manoeuvre if the right player comes along.

It maybe that we do spend before sept and then in jan, but I can see them being well thought purchases. We need to let the new arrivals settle in, the season isn't won and lost in August/ sept, but we need to pick up results as well, which I have no doubt.

 

[Bladesway]

Clough is finally doing what I've said for a long time. Throwing money at a problem hasn't worked in this division. Perhaps, following last seasons success under clough, it might come down to good old fashioned football management, taking talented players not expensive players and achieving success this way.

Keep it up Cloughie!

WHAT?!?! When you can spunk £3m up the wall in over priced wankers? What are you thinking? PANIC BUY NOW!!!!!

 

[SwissBlade]

WHAT?!?! When you can spunk £3m up the wall in over priced wankers? What are you thinking? PANIC BUY NOW!!!!!

When I have doubts about Clough (it happened for about 3 seconds last season) I just think "Clough v Robson"... Then, the moment passes...

 

[Pierre's PC]

WHAT?!?! When you can spunk £3m up the wall in over priced wankers? What are you thinking? PANIC BUY NOW!!!!!

Spiky bar steward!

 

[BeakerBlade]

I was wandering why Nigel was talking about playing the kids. We have Harry's money so there is no need for him to scrimp as such. I may have just moved to the glass half full "who owns the freehold" (how can someone "own" a freehold the clue is in the word free) side, but have the board just let him down and pocketed the Harry money? If this is the case is Clough playing the kids to get sacked? Paranoid instead of enjoying it is a horrible place to be.
So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

I just think if you're going for automatic promotion in any league, you need to buy proven talent, and it seems we have the money to do so. So why put the pressure on our kids to battle it out when we don't really need to.

 

[Grecian2000]

Throwing money at a problem hasn't worked in this division.

When hasn't it? We haven't tried it so who are you basing the failure on?

What we've done since we arrived in this league is get rid of Quinn, Lowton, Williamson, McDonald, Maguire, Blackman for impressive (and not so impressive) fees and bought lower priced/lower standard replacements. If we'd actually spent enough money replacing what we'd lost then we might be up now but we haven't . . . .

Chucking money at it? Jeez.

 

[SwissBlade]

When hasn't it? We haven't tried it so who are you basing the failure on?

What we've done since we arrived in this league is get rid of Quinn, Lowton, Williamson, McDonald, Maguire, Blackman for impressive (and not so impressive) fees and bought lower priced/lower standard replacements. If we'd actually spent enough money replacing what we'd lost then we might be up now but we haven't . . . .

Chucking money at it? Jeez.

Relative to most other sides in the division over the 3-4 years we've been down here

 

[Grecian2000]

Ahh, so not ACTUALLY throwing money at it at all then. Good, glad we cleared that up.

Thought for a minute they'd changed "throwing money at it" to mean "reaping money in from transfers and not replacing adequately". No need for a new thesaurus just yet then!

 

[blader]

Winners of the top 3 divisions last season:

Man city
Leicester
Wolves

The biggest spenders in their respective division last season:

Man city
Leicester
Wolves

 

[SwissBlade]

Winners of the top 3 divisions last season:

Man city
Leicester
Wolves

The biggest spenders in their respective division last season:

Man city
Leicester
Wolves

View attachment 9128

Clough out!

 

[SwissBlade]

Ahh, so not ACTUALLY throwing money at it at all then. Good, glad we cleared that up.

Thought for a minute they'd changed "throwing money at it" to mean "reaping money in from transfers and not replacing adequately". No need for a new thesaurus just yet then!

Well the other option I suppose was keeping them and going into admin which seems to have worked well for Leeds, Leicester etc

We've thrown money at contracts and wages for years and hasn't really helped us. Were probably still paying Lee Hendrie and Jordan Stewart now!

 

[Zanzibar]

Well the other option I suppose was keeping them and going into admin which seems to have worked well for Leeds, Leicester etc

We've thrown money at contracts and wages for years and hasn't really helped us. Were probably still paying Lee Hendrie and Jordan Stewart now!

It's the strangest quote I've heard for some time.
Most strongest teams have spent on players to achieve what they do.
Overspending when you don't have the resources or the managerial talent to make it count is rubbish.
So is underspending when you do have the resources and reputedly the manager to make it count.

 

[Grecian2000]

Well the other option I suppose was keeping them and going into admin

Which wasn't your original point.

What you said was we'd been "throwing money at it" whilst in this division. We haven't.

We may have thrown it at Div2 under Robson and still be paying for that and other stupidities but that is a different story/argument than the one you initially laid out.

Anyway, enough of this, I feel I may have to bring my annual explanation of the word "scapegoat" anytime now as it's having its usual airing in its usual incorrect form.

 

[SwissBlade]

It's the strangest quote I've heard for some time.
Most strongest teams have spent on players to achieve what they do.
Overspending when you don't have the resources or the managerial talent to make it count is rubbish.
So is underspending when you do have the resources and reputedly the manager to make it count.

Again it's what you do with the budget that counts. I don't believe you need to kill the budget to get out of this league, I think you can completely underspend and hand pick the talent to suit. This seems to be what Clough is both happy and comfortable with.

Of course we could spunk 2 million on a player like billy sharp (as we did in the championship) and he does nothing for you because he's the wrong player for that particular side. The daft thing is, if we'd have declared that Basham was signed for 2 million some people would've been happy with the summer...

No idea how much Higdon cost, but probably anywhere between 100-300k at a guess, but he looks the business. Alcock cost how much? And he looks the business. Reed - through the academy, looks the business. (All based on a single game of course).

Didnt everyone's favourite KMac join us because he hadn't got a club? Next thing hes the best thing in the division (apparently)

 

[Rossb123]

We have lost one game and didn't play very well...........I think we all need to calm down, we can panic at Christmas when we are bottom again.

 

[SwissBlade]

And whilst I'm at it - Torres 50 million, Carroll 30 million, yet Ricky Lambert has bagged more goals than the pair of them I the last couple of seasons.

 

[SwissBlade]

Which wasn't your original point.

What you said was we'd been "throwing money at it" whilst in this division. We haven't.

We may have thrown it at Div2 under Robson and still be paying for that and other stupidities but that is a different story/argument than the one you initially laid out.

Anyway, enough of this, I feel I may have to bring my annual explanation of the word "scapegoat" anytime now as it's having its usual airing in its usual incorrect form.

No it wasn't my original point, but we've thrown money around relatively in this division, the admin point was used to exaggerate the consequences of keeping those players.

 

[Bladesman]

I was wandering why Nigel was talking about playing the kids. We have Harry's money so there is no need for him to scrimp as such. I may have just moved to the glass half full "who owns the freehold" (how can someone "own" a freehold the clue is in the word free) side, but have the board just let him down and pocketed the Harry money? If this is the case is Clough playing the kids to get sacked? Paranoid instead of enjoying it is a horrible place to be.
So I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

I am sure Jim has said himself that Nigel came to the board with a budget that he thought he would need. The board have given him the budget he asked for and it has been down to Clough to make the most of it.

I think Alcock and Harrison will turn out to be quality over the course of the season. Once we have a settled back four then we should be OK.

Basham and McNulty have a lot more to prove.

 

[SelbyBlade]

I am sure Jim has said himself that Nigel came to the board with a budget that he thought he would need. The board have given him the budget he asked for and it has been down to Clough to make the most of it.

I think Alcock and Harrison will turn out to be quality over the course of the season. Once we have a settled back four then we should be OK.

Basham and McNulty have a lot more to prove.

This thread turned into a spending v not spending when my point was is the board denying Nigel money. If the board have said that Nigel can have the Harry money to strengthen defence, stated by Nigel, why three days later has that changed to "we may have to go with the kids". This is my Paranoia bit. I like Nigel and don't want the board to lose the best manager we have had for a long time.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I seem to recall many on here saying last season that we wouldn't see our new "financial muscle" until the run up to this season. Since when we have sold arguably our best player, lost 2 of our other better players - and replaced them with free transfers and a couple of players for small fees.

Whilst we wasted money when Robson was in charge, that is the only time in the last 40 years where it can be said we "threw money at it". Generally speaking we have sold our better players and re-invested only a fraction of the transfer money received.

There is no doubt that spending money significantly improves your chance of success - Wolves & Brentford spent big last season. And look at Bournemouth. There are numerous other examples.

It is frustrating that despite our new Board, little seems to have changed and teams on a fraction of our crowds and turnover continue to spend more than we do.

I still hope we come good this season of course - but the performances on Saturday & in pre-season against Div 2 opposition don't exactly inspire confidence.

 

[bartman]

I seem to recall many on here saying last season that we wouldn't see our new "financial muscle" until the run up to this season. Since when we have sold arguably our best player, lost 2 of our other better players - and replaced them with free transfers and a couple of players for small fees.

Whilst we wasted money when Robson was in charge, that is the only time in the last 40 years where it can be said we "threw money at it". Generally speaking we have sold our better players and re-invested only a fraction of the transfer money received.

There is no doubt that spending money significantly improves your chance of success - Wolves & Brentford spent big last season. And look at Bournemouth. There are numerous other examples.

It is frustrating that despite our new Board, little seems to have changed and teams on a fraction of our crowds and turnover continue to spend more than we do.

I still hope we come good this season of course - but the performances on Saturday & in pre-season against Div 2 opposition don't exactly inspire confidence.

We've only lost Harry out of our better players. (unless you are thinking Brandy and Taylor which I doubt). Brayford and Coady were never our players and the latter was certainly not one of our top 7-8 players last season.

We will still have one of the top wage bills in the division- if not the highest.and I am struggling to see who the fans were expecting us to bring in especially as we are a L1 club. The loan market will bring in higher level players (Like Brayford). It wouldn't surprise me if the club was still making a loss on a weekly basis due to the overheads of the club and the HM fees will help cover that

Wolves spent big last season due to the parachute money. It was shit or bust for them- something we tried previously but failed. Brentford's wage bill was high considering their crowds but I would be surprised if it was higher than ours.

 

[Latters]

We've only lost Harry out of our better players. (unless you are thinking Brandy and Taylor which I doubt). Brayford and Coady were never our players and the latter was certainly not one of our top 7-8 players last season.

We will still have one of the top wage bills in the division- if not the highest.and I am struggling to see who the fans were expecting us to bring in especially as we are a L1 club. The loan market will bring in higher level players (Like Brayford). It wouldn't surprise me if the club was still making a loss on a weekly basis due to the overheads of the club and the HM fees will help cover that

Wolves spent big last season due to the parachute money. It was shit or bust for them- something we tried previously but failed. Brentford's wage bill was high considering their crowds but I would be surprised if it was higher than ours.

I'm not sure why people seem to assume we have one of the highest wage bills in the league. We have a small squad full of League 1 players. The only real exceptions I can think of are Baxter, who may have been offered football at a higher level, Harris, who played a bit at a higher level, Davies (unfortunately, as I only see him as being good enough for back up ) and Higdon, who came from a fairly decent level.

The rest have come from either little English clubs, Scotland, or have signed new contacts whilst we've been where we are.

If we have one of the highest wage bills, we are being robbed, because we don't have many individuals worthy of being the league's highest earners.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

We've only lost Harry out of our better players. (unless you are thinking Brandy and Taylor which I doubt). Brayford and Coady were never our players and the latter was certainly not one of our top 7-8 players last season.

We will still have one of the top wage bills in the division- if not the highest.and I am struggling to see who the fans were expecting us to bring in especially as we are a L1 club. The loan market will bring in higher level players (Like Brayford). It wouldn't surprise me if the club was still making a loss on a weekly basis due to the overheads of the club and the HM fees will help cover that

Wolves spent big last season due to the parachute money. It was shit or bust for them- something we tried previously but failed. Brentford's wage bill was high considering their crowds but I would be surprised if it was higher than ours.

I know Brayford & Coady were on loan. The point I was making is that they, along with Maguire, were 3 of our better players and have left - and that our incomings are free transfers and a couple of low price signings. As for Coady not being one of our top 7-8 players last season....you what?

 

[Bladesway]

I've obviously missed all the points while I have been frothing at the lips over a single match. For me we have the right man in charge for the first time in ages. If he decides to spend then it's right. If he decides he doesn't need to then it's also right.

If we are mid table at Christmas then we have another transfer window to sort things out. If we don't go up this season then we go again and again until we get out. No one has a god given right and to think we do is frankly stupid. We can't keep swapping managers because that's partly what got us here. We can assemble a good squad and Clough is in my opinion in the best place to do that.

Too much panic for my liking.

 

[blader]

I've obviously missed all the points while I have been frothing at the lips over a single match. For me we have the right man in charge for the first time in ages. If he decides to spend then it's right. If he decides he doesn't need to then it's also right.

If we are mid table at Christmas then we have another transfer window to sort things out. If we don't go up this season then we go again and again until we get out. No one has a god given right and to think we do is frankly stupid. We can't keep swapping managers because that's partly what got us here. We can assemble a good squad and Clough is in my opinion in the best place to do that.

Too much panic for my liking.

I'm not panicking. Im just bored of league 1.

 

[bartman]

I know Brayford & Coady were on loan. The point I was making is that they, along with Maguire, were 3 of our better players and have left - and that our incomings are free transfers and a couple of low price signings. As for Coady not being one of our top 7-8 players last season....you what?

Brayford,Maguire,Harris,Doyle,Murphy Flynn,Baxter, and arguably Scougall were all better than him. How many influential games did he have especially in the last 6 months of the season.? Agree with what you are saying about the signings but we shouldn't need to spend big to get out of this league

 

[bartman]

I'm not sure why people seem to assume we have one of the highest wage bills in the league. We have a small squad full of League 1 players. .

Can you see anyone in this league having higher wage bills than us or Bristol City ?