Ownership update !

[MBH]

Great piece, and the reason why when football fans are regarded as "customers" it really grinds my fucking gears.

We (you and football fans everywhere) aren't customers. We invest more than money, we invest ourselves. We are the ones who travel far and wide to see our team. We are the ones who, no matter how shit everything else is, feel a little bit better when our team wins. We are the ones who have shed tears of joy or sadness in triumph and adversity.

I feel for you because those who are running the show at your place, simply don't get this. All that matters to them is the bottom line. They care little that a club with the tradition and support you have is getting run into the ground.

Shame on them.

Our CEO, a former male model, Martin Bain, ruined Rangers. He is now ruining us, although in reality he is the icing on the cake.

Prior to 1958 Sunderland AFC was the only club in England that had never been relegated and had never played outside the top flight. It had been champions 6 times (a record that chelsea only recently equalled and a one that Man City has yet to equal). Since 1958 we have been relegated 10 times, soon to be 11 and successive regimes have liked the thought of being in charge at SAFC but were simply out of their depth. There is a question mark now as to whether we even have an organised board and board meetings.

Getting back to your point; modern football has attracted, due to the money sloshing around, a whole load of hangers on, who have been elevated to positions that they should not be in. It is now a grace and favour system that bears little to accumen or talent.

Sunderland AFC treats the fans like shit, runs the PR department like we are Real Madrid in a fashion that would make the former Iraqi Information Minister blush.

We are a prime example of how not to run a football club and the truth is that rather than stink the premier league out for a decade we should have gone down with a bit of grace instead of clinging onto the PL dream, which in reality is nothing special. Its no fun going up into the PL, on a bedrock of sand and then watching your team lose every week.

We are now in a situation where:

Administration looms
We are utter shite and quite deservedly bottom of the league
We have players who dont give two fucks about the club because the vast majority are loanees and the rest are out of contract come June (the loanee situation really is a false economy)
We are over £100m in debt
The stadium is falling to bits with more pink seats than red ones
We have lost half of our crowd since last May (there was not 28k there yesterday - more like 20k)
We have won just 2 home games in 15 months
We have won just 20 league games out of the last 120, and
We are going down - quite deservedly

to cap it all off we have a former player in jail and another one could be heading that way - one got done or is being done for drinking and driving yesterday. A club that is out of control and dying.

A lot of clubs who aspire to prosper in the top flight - all fans want that for their club - should sit back and have a look at how SAFC went on and you should vow never to repeat what we did, because as it stands we have no idea whether or not:

We will be in the 4rth division the season after next, or more importantly
Whether we will even have a club to support

Its a disastrous situation, that as I say, other clubs and their fans would do well to learn from. The club is toxic, the atmosphere is horrendous, we lose every week and even before a ball is kicked we know we will lose every game.

Burnley is an example of how to run a football club.

 

[Liverpool blade]

Great piece, and the reason why when football fans are regarded as "customers" it really grinds my fucking gears.

We (you and football fans everywhere) aren't customers. We invest more than money, we invest ourselves. We are the ones who travel far and wide to see our team. We are the ones who, no matter how shit everything else is, feel a little bit better when our team wins. We are the ones who have shed tears of joy or sadness in triumph and adversity.

I feel for you because those who are running the show at your place, simply don't get this. All that matters to them is the bottom line. They care little that a club with the tradition and support you have is getting run into the ground.

Shame on them.

Agreed 100%. What a brilliant post sir.
I'm not so sure that the prince regards us as fans?. He just thinks we're paying customers!!.
I'm starting to think he could rip the club apart if he takes over?. UTB

 

[MBH]

Agreed 100%. What a brilliant post sir.
I'm not so sure that the prince regards us as fans?. He just thinks we're paying customers!!.
I'm starting to think he could rip the club apart if he takes over?. UTB

You need to be really careful what you wish for here. We got a billionaire in charge, a yank, who knows zero about football and is a hedge fund manager. We should have seen the warning signs but we didnt. We now are where we are.

 

[Sean Thornton]

To be fair, MM was a particularly effective Snake Oil salesman, so you can see why they thought that.

It helps when you have people desperate for a bit of media attention.

 

[The Crab]

Agreed 100%. What a brilliant post sir.
I'm not so sure that the prince regards us as fans?. He just thinks we're paying customers!!.
I'm starting to think he could rip the club apart if he takes over?. UTB

Thank you.

That fear is in the back of my mind too LB. Not because he is a "Foreigner" but purely the motives.

Maybe he'll be the best thing since sliced bread, or maybe we will become what we are mocking (our friends across town). For me, it is this uncertainty that breeds speculation and bickering.

 

[coolhandluke]

For us its a long way back. Our club has imploded, needs new management, but the reality is that SAFC has been poor for decades. The facade of large crowds and now excellent infrastructure has masked horrendously bad management on Wearside and we will now deservedly (for management) go down.

It wasnt the fans who badly managed the club, it wasnt the fans who committed the crimes that puts our players in jail, it wasnt us who gave us a sackful of arseholes playing for us and so you go on. At the end of the day though management is transient the fans arent and its the fan who pick up the backwash of these arseholes.

All I would say to fans of other clubs is that dont get to impatient. The survival of your football club comes first. If the club is founded on good management, a solid financial base and a proper youth system, central to the club - then youll not end up like us.

Sacking managers willy nilly, throwing money around like confetti on absolute shite and being unable to control those players, throughrank bad club management, can leave you where we are - with a toxic club that in truth no one should go near with a barge pole.

Sheffield United has come a long way in a short space of time but dont throw it away through impatience.

Here here mate . Sadly however, your painful experience will not appease our vocal minority who are demanding action now .

As for Sunderland right now, well to be fair relation is looming large this season . Hopefully though those at the top will either clear off paving the way for a new owner who breaths sustainability or they may actually learn their lesson . Time will tell i guess .

 

[The Crab]

It helps when you have people desperate for a bit of media attention.

Very true.

In my experience, you only have to let someone "think" they are in the inner circle without actually being in it. Some people are much easier to keep "on message" that way.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Our CEO, a former male model, Martin Bain, ruined Rangers. He is now ruining us, although in reality he is the icing on the cake.

Prior to 1958 Sunderland AFC was the only club in England that had never been relegated and had never played outside the top flight. It had been champions 6 times (a record that chelsea only recently equalled and a one that Man City has yet to equal). Since 1958 we have been relegated 10 times, soon to be 11 and successive regimes have liked the thought of being in charge at SAFC but were simply out of their depth. There is a question mark now as to whether we even have an organised board and board meetings.

Getting back to your point; modern football has attracted, due to the money sloshing around, a whole load of hangers on, who have been elevated to positions that they should not be in. It is now a grace and favour system that bears little to accumen or talent.

Sunderland AFC treats the fans like shit, runs the PR department like we are Real Madrid in a fashion that would make the former Iraqi Information Minister blush.

We are a prime example of how not to run a football club and the truth is that rather than stink the premier league out for a decade we should have gone down with a bit of grace instead of clinging onto the PL dream, which in reality is nothing special. Its no fun going up into the PL, on a bedrock of sand and then watching your team lose every week.

We are now in a situation where:

Administration looms
We are utter shite and quite deservedly bottom of the league
We have players who dont give two fucks about the club because the vast majority are loanees and the rest are out of contract come June (the loanee situation really is a false economy)
We are over £100m in debt
The stadium is falling to bits with more pink seats than red ones
We have lost half of our crowd since last May (there was not 28k there yesterday - more like 20k)
We have won just 2 home games in 15 months
We have won just 20 league games out of the last 120, and
We are going down - quite deservedly

to cap it all off we have a former player in jail and another one could be heading that way - one got done or is being done for drinking and driving yesterday. A club that is out of control and dying.

A lot of clubs who aspire to prosper in the top flight - all fans want that for their club - should sit back and have a look at how SAFC went on and you should vow never to repeat what we did, because as it stands we have no idea whether or not:

We will be in the 4rth division the season after next, or more importantly
Whether we will even have a club to support

Its a disastrous situation, that as I say, other clubs and their fans would do well to learn from. The club is toxic, the atmosphere is horrendous, we lose every week and even before a ball is kicked we know we will lose every game.

Burnley is an example of how to run a football club.

Players out of contract in June is a good thing if you have the right manager to completely revamp the squad. Chris Wilder did exactly that for us.

Should the worst happen you have £35M in parachute payments in L1. No one has ever had that amount and is a huge advantage. Sunderland will come back.

Providing your loans are with the owner and not third parties, Short will have to sort that, administration wouldn’t make sense.

 

[The Crab]

Players out of contract in June is a good thing if you have the right manager to completely revamp the squad. Chris Wilder did exactly that for us.

Should the worst happen you have £35M in parachute payments in L1. No one has ever had that amount and is a huge advantage. Sunderland will come back.

Providing your loans are with the owner and not third parties, Short will have to sort that, administration wouldn’t make sense.

Might be a big black hole in their boardroom waiting to swallow that £35m?

 

[UnitedBlade]

Might be a big black hole in their boardroom waiting to swallow that £35m?

There could be but I clearly remember people predicting Wolves would implode in L1. I argued the parachute payments would be a big advantage and let’s face they pissed the league with even more points than us.

Just looked it up, Wolves “only” had £16M parachute payments.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

A decent read but flawed in the case of McCabe .

Written in 2010 so maybe before a balanced view could be included I don’t know. Be interesting to hear from authors about their view.

That said when you remember what went before McCabe doesn’t come out too badly

 

[Liverpool blade]

You need to be really careful what you wish for here. We got a billionaire in charge, a yank, who knows zero about football and is a hedge fund manager. We should have seen the warning signs but we didnt. We now are where we are.

I know a lot about your current situation as my niece is a season ticket holder at Sunderland and has been for about 4 years.
I wouldn't want us to end up in a position like yours ever!!.
Our prince is a man of few words and doesn't know our history and passion.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Our CEO, a former male model, Martin Bain, ruined Rangers. He is now ruining us, although in reality he is the icing on the cake.

Prior to 1958 Sunderland AFC was the only club in England that had never been relegated and had never played outside the top flight. It had been champions 6 times (a record that chelsea only recently equalled and a one that Man City has yet to equal). Since 1958 we have been relegated 10 times, soon to be 11 and successive regimes have liked the thought of being in charge at SAFC but were simply out of their depth. There is a question mark now as to whether we even have an organised board and board meetings.

Getting back to your point; modern football has attracted, due to the money sloshing around, a whole load of hangers on, who have been elevated to positions that they should not be in. It is now a grace and favour system that bears little to accumen or talent.

Sunderland AFC treats the fans like shit, runs the PR department like we are Real Madrid in a fashion that would make the former Iraqi Information Minister blush.

We are a prime example of how not to run a football club and the truth is that rather than stink the premier league out for a decade we should have gone down with a bit of grace instead of clinging onto the PL dream, which in reality is nothing special. Its no fun going up into the PL, on a bedrock of sand and then watching your team lose every week.

We are now in a situation where:

Administration looms
We are utter shite and quite deservedly bottom of the league
We have players who dont give two fucks about the club because the vast majority are loanees and the rest are out of contract come June (the loanee situation really is a false economy)
We are over £100m in debt
The stadium is falling to bits with more pink seats than red ones
We have lost half of our crowd since last May (there was not 28k there yesterday - more like 20k)
We have won just 2 home games in 15 months
We have won just 20 league games out of the last 120, and
We are going down - quite deservedly

to cap it all off we have a former player in jail and another one could be heading that way - one got done or is being done for drinking and driving yesterday. A club that is out of control and dying.

A lot of clubs who aspire to prosper in the top flight - all fans want that for their club - should sit back and have a look at how SAFC went on and you should vow never to repeat what we did, because as it stands we have no idea whether or not:

We will be in the 4rth division the season after next, or more importantly
Whether we will even have a club to support

Its a disastrous situation, that as I say, other clubs and their fans would do well to learn from. The club is toxic, the atmosphere is horrendous, we lose every week and even before a ball is kicked we know we will lose every game.

Burnley is an example of how to run a football club.

MBH we feel your pain mate. We too have an inglorious history of mismanagement. We have previous owners who were outright crooks including one who, unless someone knows better, is still on the run like a football Lord Lucan.

Spent prematch in a pub with Sunderland fans before the game at yours and you could feel the despondency even then.

As others have said L1 might prove a blessing in disguise and if you get the right manager with the right ethos and cull the deadwood then I’m sure you’ll be back even it takes a few years.

You’re 100% right about being careful what we wish for even our overinflated neighbours are starting to realise this.

 

[Worksop II]

Our prince is a man of few words and doesn't know our history and passion.

We dont know his either ... or his intentions

All what are hearing at the moment, ala McCabe is one sided .... and I am sure it wont be long before we hear the words from McCabe ....

"I have the fans best interests at heart" .... suggesting The Prince hasn't ...

All the Prince can do is get the best deal he can, takeover (maybe), then off we go on the next cycle of The Blades

 

[Sheffsteel]

This thread kind of sums up the confusion of “what do fans actually want”?

One extreme is Sheffield FC.
They wanted to keep their traditions and valued the game and sportsmanship
So they turned their back on professionism as they thought money would ruin the game.

The other extreme is Man City/ Paris St Germain who both have owners richer than some countries.
Their owners are foreign and are using those clubs as an ego trip. They waste money and see fans as customers.

Which model would you prefer United to be closest too?

If a club sellls it’s soul to the devil then don’t complain when that club has to suffer the consequences.
The problem is many clubs are investing, they all can’t achieve promotion, so those clubs will suffer.

The investment/ ambition experiment is playing our close to home.
Wednesday chose big investment for a quick promotion, failed and now could be in trouble.
Whereas Wolves chose big investment for a quick promotion and seem to have pulled it off.

 

[Sean Thornton]

We dont know his either ... or his intentions

All what are hearing at the moment, ala McCabe is one sided .... and I am sure it wont be long before we hear the words from McCabe ....

"I have the fans best interests at heart" .... suggesting The Prince hasn't ...

All the Prince can do is get the best deal he can, takeover (maybe), then off we go on the next cycle of The Blades

It surprises me that the lack of any info from the Prince, which is his prerogative, doesn't stop people wanting McCabe out despite not knowing what the future holds, especially regards to the academy etc. We know McCabe doesn't have the money but he has always tried to safeguard the future of the club. Whether anyone likes it or not, that's a fact.

 

[Worksop II]

It surprises me that the lack of any info from the Prince, which is his prerogative, doesn't stop people wanting McCabe out

Looking at the limited info flying about around this "deal" between McCabe and Princey, McCabe wants out too ....

I'm just supporting him

 

[MBH]

Here here mate . Sadly however, your painful experience will not appease our vocal minority who are demanding action now .

.

Clearly its not for me to get involved in a Sheffield United matter but all I can do is give you the SAFC experience and for you good people to ask yourselves a very specific question, which is "why does the prospective owner want to buy us".

We were bought by a Yank hedge fund billionaire who knew nothing about football and he bought us for just £10m to £15m. Thats the whole show - Stadium Of Light, Academy Of Light (youth infrastructure), the whole lot.

We are in the PL and doing shite so he peddles the manager - the new manager wants new players - so we sell some, buy shite, some we cant get rid of on the wages we are paying so to get rid of some we have to agree to pay some of their wages to the buying club. We do this what, 7 or 8 times with managers? they reckon we are still paying some of these players off even after 2 or 3 years.

One of our DOFs was a son of one of the owners golfing mates who then came in bought shite and left with his tale between his legs, burbling something about "the Udinese Model" or some such shite. fucking shysters, the whole lot of them. People being made millionaires for zero achievement.

Eventually having stunk the top flight out for a decade the Chairman decides that he has had enough and bails out (effectively). By now we are £130m plus in debt - even with the PL/Sky money. It beggars belief.

Coupled with this the club is badly run, very badly run. Our CEO knowingly shields a bloke who ends up going to jail for relations with a minor and she goes. We then appoint a former male model as CEO.

Players come and go, the club has no control on them, a drinking culture is nurtured, we sell everything we can - we replace them with SEVEN loanees - all of whom dont give a single fuck about SAFC and allow other contracts to run down to the tune of where we now have up to 20 players leaving in the summer, all now bottling tackles because they dont want to get injured and risk having no contract by next season with another club.

On a smaller scale this has been going on for 60 years.

I could go on and on and on and on about the shambolic way that SAFC has been run but give me a footballing scenario and using SAFC as a yardstick I can tell you what not to do.

A once respected football club now a joke club. Heartbreaking.

 

[Deadbat]

The Prince does not really give off the vibe as someone desperate to take over....we never hear from him and he is never here. It is all a bit odd. If he had come over even a few times then we might sense he wants that greater involvement and to be involved financially and visually in the prospect of the Premier League and all it's riches.

He was over for the Chesterfield game but has he even set foot in Sheffield other than that for 3 or 4 years?

McCabe's words are quite damning really reading between the lines. You would think he may respond. His lack of visibility, comments or any kind of presence alarms me. He gives the impression of someone not that arsed. He needs to change that radically if he wants to be the sole owner.

 

[Deaneandagana]

It surprises me that the lack of any info from the Prince, which is his prerogative, doesn't stop people wanting McCabe out despite not knowing what the future holds, especially regards to the academy etc. We know McCabe doesn't have the money but he has always tried to safeguard the future of the club. Whether anyone likes it or not, that's a fact.

K Mc is first and foremost a business man & a successful one at that, he’s also an experienced PR man whose sound bytes are well timed & well phrased.

His intentions can be perceived as having SU at heart - however much of what gets discussed on this forum is conjecture & hearsay, I think it prudent to keep an open mind about both his & others motives.

 

[MBH]

Players out of contract in June is a good thing if you have the right manager to completely revamp the squad. Chris Wilder did exactly that for us.

Should the worst happen you have £35M in parachute payments in L1. No one has ever had that amount and is a huge advantage. Sunderland will come back.

Providing your loans are with the owner and not third parties, Short will have to sort that, administration wouldn’t make sense.

Unfortunately £60m of the loan is with a third party.

 

[MBH]

Might be a big black hole in their boardroom waiting to swallow that £35m?

You said it.....

 

[Liverpool blade]

The Prince does not really give off the vibe as someone desperate to take over....we never hear from him and he is never here. It is all a bit odd. If he had come over even a few times then we might sense he wants that greater involvement and to be involved financially and visually in the prospect of the Premier League and all it's riches.

He was over for the Chesterfield game but has he even set foot in Sheffield other than that for 3 or 4 years?

McCabe's words are quite damning really reading between the lines. You would think he may respond. His lack of visibility, comments or any kind of presence alarms me. He gives the impression of someone not that arsed. He needs to change that radically if he wants to be the sole owner.

That's exactly how I feel. UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

Looking at the limited info flying about around this "deal" between McCabe and Princey, McCabe wants out too ....

I'm just supporting him

As I said yesterday, he's sending out conflicting "statements" about his wishes. "I'm not going anywhere" doesn't gel with yesterday's comments for me. That meeting raised more points than it answered.

 

[Sean Thornton]

K Mc is first and foremost a business man & a successful one at that, he’s also an experienced PR man whose sound bytes are well timed & well phrased.

His intentions can be perceived as having SU at heart - however much of what gets discussed on this forum is conjecture & hearsay, I think it prudent to keep an open mind about both his & others motives.

See my reply to Worksop. Your final sentence is bang on.

The Prince has supposedly said we'll lose money this year. Who will fund that?

 

[Worksop II]

The Prince does not really give off the vibe as someone desperate to take over....

Two blokes are trying to do a deal,

The one selling wants as much as he can get

The other wants to pay as little as possible

One wants £50 million for the lot, the other says keep yer real estate I just want the Club

One says "I have the best interests of the Club at Heart"

The other say "What the fuck has that go to do with owt, its about money"

It's just the way they are negotiating .... thats all .... and yes they will blame each other while this is going on

But there will be a smile and a handshake at the end of it

 

[Sean Thornton]

Two blokes are trying to do a deal,

The one selling wants as much as he can get

The other wants to pay as little as possible

One wants £50 million for the lot, the other says keep yer real estate I just want the Club

One says "I have the best interests of the Club at Heart"

The other say "What the fuck has that go to do with owt, its about money"

It's just the way they are negotiating .... thats all .... and yes they will blame each other while this is going on

But there will be a smile and a handshake at the end of it

If HRH doesn't buy the ground and rents it, will people be moaning that we've not got a ground and blaming the Prince?

He's said the KW and HM money have helped cut the losses this year, but he doesn't want the academy?

 

[Worksop II]

"I'm not going anywhere"

till the money is right, is how I read that

Why else would there be this option to purchase in the original deal signed 4-ish years ago

 

[Sean Thornton]

till the money is right, is how I read that

Why else would there be this option to purchase in the original deal signed 4-ish years ago

Standard practice in a shareholders agreement I'd have thought.

If you're correct in that assertion, it makes my comment about conflicting statements more likely. As pro McCabe as I am, he does have form for this sort of thing.

 

[Worksop II]

If HRH doesn't buy the ground and rents it, will people be moaning that we've not got a ground and blaming the Prince?

He's said the KW and HM money have helped cut the losses this year, but he doesn't want the academy?

They are just negotiating,

Kev inflates the price

Princey values it all at fuck all

Kev says "I'm not going anywhere then"

Princey "you keep the real estate then, I just want the Team"

The 3rd party comes up with the real valuation for the lot

They quibble over the Dooley Statue, McCabe gets that, Princey covers the losses this Season, smiles and handshakes, job done