Our wing backs are key to success in our system.

[robbiez666]

The wingbacks need to take more chances. Early balls in when breaking to give the strikers a chance. Ideally, you'd want them crossing in when everyone is running towards the opposition area. As soon as defenders get set, that stops most crosses. First time crosses don't always come off but create panic which can lead to goals. Pulling balls back from the byline across the ground. You may miss the target but there's a decent chance of it falling to someone else.

No one seeming want to make a mistake so we're trying to work perfect crossing opportunities, allowing 10 of their players to get back into the box.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The wingbacks need to take more chances. Early balls in when breaking to give the strikers a chance. Ideally, you'd want them crossing in when everyone is running towards the opposition area. As soon as defenders get set, that stops most crosses. First time crosses don't always come off but create panic which can lead to goals. Pulling balls back from the byline across the ground. You may miss the target but there's a decent chance of it falling to someone else.

No one seeming want to make a mistake so we're trying to work perfect crossing opportunities, allowing 10 of their players to get back into the box.

That's the problem. Billy, Leon whoever make their runs, the ball doesn't come, they track back, next minute the balls with one of ourback three. Comes forward wide, strikers move up, then have to move back or be offside and then the ball comes in while they're still on the edge of the penalty box. Ball retention is all well and good but the better sides attack quicker. Coutts could spit a ball regularly. We don't have anyone with that consistently and of course, they aren't easy to find, especially with Wilders budget.

If they're trying for the perfect cross, someone needs to get them on the training pitch. Can't beat the first man or straight into touch on the far side.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Our WCB's used to be key going past wing backs, JOC seems to get a nose bleed crossing the half way line these days.

 

[Sean Thornton]

That's the problem. Billy, Leon whoever make their runs, the ball doesn't come, they track back, next minute the balls with one of ourback three. Comes forward wide, strikers move up, then have to move back or be offside and then the ball comes in while they're still on the edge of the penalty box. Ball retention is all well and good but the better sides attack quicker. Coutts could spit a ball regularly. We don't have anyone with that consistently and of course, they aren't easy to find, especially with Wilders budget.

If they're trying for the perfect cross, someone needs to get them on the training pitch. Can't beat the first man or straight into touch on the far side.

Coutts could "spot a ball" grrrrr.

 

[Dnblade]

It's difficult for our wingbacks at times...Forest just let our back 3 have it,and had everyone behind the ball...we pass it around the back and as soon as it goes to the wing back he's closed down,and forced to give back to the back 3...if they can't find a midfielder who are also closed down quickly,we're forced to go long and then 9 times out of 10 we lose the ball.

 

[Sheff de party]

If you look at some stats sites, it will also say we are very good at through balls. A few examples are Brooks’s goals against Burton and Leeds, Donaldson has scored 5 and from memory most are from through balls. Wing backs and crosses are important but it’s not our only strength. Duffy leads our assists and they will be a combination of through balls, crosses, free kicks and corners.

Assists can be a bit misleading as I’ve discovered a quarter of our goals don’t have an assistee. Sometimes they don’t accredit a penalty to anyone as an assist. Derby’s goalkeeper gifted one of the goals to Billy in the home game etc. I can’t find anywhere that lists assists by game so it’s hard to work out the goals that don’t have an assistee.

A quarter?! Wow that is surprising.

Yeah I’d say we’ve had a fair few through balls. We do seem to score a lot from low crosses and pull backs as well. It was deadly when the system was working, just wonder if teams have figured it out now.

 

[Champagneblade]

A quarter?! Wow that is surprising.

Yeah I’d say we’ve had a fair few through balls. We do seem to score a lot from low crosses and pull backs as well. It was deadly when the system was working, just wonder if teams have figured it out now.

Perhaps it just boils down to playing against more effective opposition?

Scoring a goal invariably is down to a mistake or at least someone getting the better of their opposite number. It shouldn’t really be that much of a surprise that largely the same team who plied their trade in League One last year might encounter more savvy opposition one level higher. That’s why they play for teams one level higher - more skilled, quicker, more disciplined, less easily fooled etc.

These players cost money. It shouldn’t be a surprise that players on 20-40k per week are a bit good at times!

Financially at times, this has been David vs Golliath. Great when David puts the big man down but in 46 bouts David would have to be very lucky or exceptionally good to not take the odd pasting here and there.

 

[Booker4]

There lies the point of the o.p. and the thread.

If we don't have quality wing backs should we play 3-5-2. Yes we should? Sign some then.

Hussey was Wilder's first signing and an attempt to sign the specialist I think. Shame he didn't settle well.

I think that both Stevens and Baldock have done well this season and yes we would love a Borbokis type but whoever comes in needs to be able to defend as well as Stevens and Baldock do. It'd be no good signing an attacking wing back but the conceding more goals and often the more attacking wing backs are not as good defensively. Hussey wasn't good enough going forward and certainly not good enough defensively but he was signed last season for league One and he never got the chance to play wing back as he did play left back before Wilder dropped him, went to 3-5-2 and brought in Lafferty. Hussey could cross a ball mind and Baldock in particular needs to improve on his crossing.

I can see Baldock remaining first choice next season as he is young and will hopefully improve and he has had a good season. Stevens has done well but I think Wilder might look for another left wing back to add competition to that spot and release Lafferty this summer.

 

[UnitedBlade]

A quarter?! Wow that is surprising.

Yeah I’d say we’ve had a fair few through balls. We do seem to score a lot from low crosses and pull backs as well. It was deadly when the system was working, just wonder if teams have figured it out now.

Yes, I looked into this further and the analysis is quite interesting.

Five goals came from errors eg Derby goalkeeper, Lees at the Sty, O’Brian for Leeds at the Lane etc. Five were no assist which I assume are self made for example the Couttsy goal followed a dribble. Two were penalties and one own goal by Russell of Derby.

For assisted goals, 10 came from crosses, 9 from through balls, 3 from free kicks and 17 other. The other category isn’t very helpful but to give an example I think Clarke touched on a corner for Stearman to score in a recent home game.

This doesn’t negate that we do a lot of attacking and overlapping down the flanks because we do and they may lead to goals which aren’t direct crosses from the flanks but included in other. However, we do get quite a few goals from through balls and once you see the unassisted categories they make sense as well.

Either way, we just need more quality in the final third to up the goal rate.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think that both Stevens and Baldock have done well this season and yes we would love a Borbokis type but whoever comes in needs to be able to defend as well as Stevens and Baldock do. It'd be no good signing an attacking wing back but the conceding more goals and often the more attacking wing backs are not as good defensively. Hussey wasn't good enough going forward and certainly not good enough defensively but he was signed last season for league One and he never got the chance to play wing back as he did play left back before Wilder dropped him, went to 3-5-2 and brought in Lafferty. Hussey could cross a ball mind and Baldock in particular needs to improve on his crossing.

I can see Baldock remaining first choice next season as he is young and will hopefully improve and he has had a good season. Stevens has done well but I think Wilder might look for another left wing back to add competition to that spot and release Lafferty this summer.

Agree but Freeman will challenge for that right wing back spot.

Thomas was probably signed with hopes of playing him wing back, but maybe hadn't the football brain or the discipline but he certainly has a ' cutting edge' given the 'maverick' licence.

 

[I should coco]

Coutts could "spot a ball" grrrrr.

Scott

I see you still had the mittens on way after normal bed time. No way will nanny read you a story at 10pm.

It's a bit warmer today, so maybe try typing normally as you don't want to look like a numpty again.

Regards

Si

 

[Booker4]

Agree but Freeman will challenge for that right wing back spot.

Thomas was probably signed with hopes of playing him wing back, but maybe hadn't the football brain or the discipline but he certainly has a ' cutting edge' given the 'maverick' licence.

I can't see Freeman playing much next season Woodward. In my view Baldock is an upgrade on Freeman, much as I like Freeman, a season out of the team obviously does him no favours. Saying that Freeman next season will give Baldock a run for his money but I don't think he's better than Baldock.

Re Stevens, as I said I really like him but he hasn't the ability to take a man on - not regularly - nor does Baldock but Baldock has decent pace which helps. I would like to see Stevens given a better competitor for the left wing back spot which has been largely his spot and the lack of competition isn't good for the strength of the team and it would keep Stevens on his toes. Lafferty isn't good enough in my view for this level.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Scott

I see you still had the mittens on way after normal bed time. No way will nanny read you a story at 10pm.

It's a bit warmer today, so maybe try typing normally as you don't want to look like a numpty again.

Regards

Si

It is warmer Si. Dad and I are in Florida looking for sponsors.

Don't forget to put the bin out. (If you slip on the ice and can't get up again, the cleaning lady is coming at 3pm today. She'll help you up after taking a photo of you. And sending it to Dad).

 

[Woodwardfan]

Yes, I looked into this further and the analysis is quite interesting.

Five goals came from errors eg Derby goalkeeper, Lees at the Sty, O’Brian for Leeds at the Lane etc. Five were no assist which I assume are self made for example the Couttsy goal followed a dribble. Two were penalties and one own goal by Russell of Derby.

For assisted goals, 10 came from crosses, 9 from through balls, 3 from free kicks and 17 other. The other category isn’t very helpful but to give an example I think Clarke touched on a corner for Stearman to score in a recent home game.

This doesn’t negate that we do a lot of attacking and overlapping down the flanks because we do and they may lead to goals which aren’t direct crosses from the flanks but included in other. However, we do get quite a few goals from through balls and once you see the unassisted categories they make sense as well.

Either way, we just need more quality in the final third to up the goal rate.

Thanks for the effort and time Utd but I fear we have different interpretations of the definition of 'assist'.

Opposition errors don't exclude an assist e.g. Lees at the sty? All 4 of our goals had assists - Coutts, Stevens I think from deep, whoever passed to Duffy or was that Lees?, Brooks. Keeper srror - why not? Penaly has scorer and assist, being the player who caused the penalty.

Also '22 defined and 17 other' is hard to fathom, there are only so many ways a goal can come about. I can see blatant assists from the opposition can mount up but even those can be forced by a United player.

Again, thanks for adding to the debate and I'm interested to discuss.

 

[I should coco]

Don't forget to put the bin out.

Isn't that why Daddy took Higdon on as un under gardener and odd job man?

Dad and I are in Florida looking for sponsors.

You said that last time and when mummy saw the pictures of you with those scantily clad Ukranian ladies she was very cross. You better make sure you come back with something better than "Pop's guns and ammo store", like you did last time.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Thanks for the effort and time Utd but I fear we have different interpretations of the definition of 'assist'.

Opposition errors don't exclude an assist e.g. Lees at the sty? All 4 of our goals had assists - Coutts, Stevens I think from deep, whoever passed to Duffy or was that Lees?, Brooks. Keeper srror - why not? Penaly has scorer and assist, being the player who caused the penalty.

Also '22 defined and 17 other' is hard to fathom, there are only so many ways a goal can come about. I can see blatant assists from the opposition can mount up but even those can be forced by a United player.

Again, thanks for adding to the debate and I'm interested to discuss.

Yes they do but I’m not going to view each goal and categorise these myself. They come from the Who Scored website. I can’t see an obvious named source but it’s likely to be Opta or Prozone. This is big business and they have hordes of people watching games so we have to work with their definitions.

Although it shows who assists each goal on a per match basis, there isn’t a cross tabulation to the type of assists. The type of assists are totals to date, although they are broken down by player.

The examples of other are ones I’ve picked out as likely.

You could view the monthly goals summary United do and decide which are the “others” but I’m not doing that!

Like all stats, it’s indicative and gives an overview of how we get our goals.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Isn't that why Daddy took Higdon on as un under gardener and odd job man?



You said that last time and when mummy saw the pictures of you with those scantily clad Ukranian ladies she was very cross. You better make sure you come back with something better than "Pop's guns and ammo store", like you did last time.

"waiter, there's a reflection of a sad and lonely man in my soup"

 

[I should coco]

"waiter, there's a reflection of a sad and lonely man in my soup"

Would sir prefer the chicken twizzlers?

 

[Woodwardfan]

I can't see Freeman playing much next season Woodward. In my view Baldock is an upgrade on Freeman, much as I like Freeman, a season out of the team obviously does him no favours. Saying that Freeman next season will give Baldock a run for his money but I don't think he's better than Baldock.

Re Stevens, as I said I really like him but he hasn't the ability to take a man on - not regularly - nor does Baldock but Baldock has decent pace which helps. I would like to see Stevens given a better competitor for the left wing back spot which has been largely his spot and the lack of competition isn't good for the strength of the team and it would keep Stevens on his toes. Lafferty isn't good enough in my view for this level.

Freeman has that ability in the opposition half and penalty area, a strong shot from just outside the area too. He 'arrives' unmarked late into the penalty area to nip in and score goals. His full back play was spoilt by his defending but at wing- back he did fine.

Time will tell whether he can do that in the Championship.