our rubbed out goal by VAR

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Nobody understands what offside is, and linesmen aren't allowed to flag for offside despite it being their primary role. What has happened to the beautiful game? And don't get me started on handball because I've got no idea whatsoever. I often find myself asking the couple next to me in their 80's what's going on. They just shrug and offer me another Werther's Original.
 

dsr-burnley said:
I think any conspiracy theories that the PL are cheating to ensure Sheffield United get relegated, should be disregarded. Just as any similar theories regarding my own team Burnley should be disregarded. They don't need to conspire to see we are both relegated, because we're both going to go down on our own merits.
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It's not a conspiracy to get rid of us out the league but former officials like Clattenburg have pretty much gone on record saying they have their own personal bias against us. So I believe referees have their own bias's against certain clubs.

Then you throw in your Mike Dean's in the VAR room protecting his mate on the pitch by not correcting a decision.
 
Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn said:
Afore (even) my time although I’m more than content to be incandescent about (another) appalling injustice perpetrated by the corrupt powers that be agin SUFC
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This is from my Dad.

It was the 60/61 season and United got all the way to the FA Cup Semi final where they played Leicester City.

The first match finished 0-0 at Elland Road so they replayed at the City Ground where it also finished 0-0. Doc Pace had the ball in the net for what would have been the winner and the ref caller handball. However, according to my Dad, it was a muddy day and you could see the imprint of the ball on Pace’s shirt where he put the ball in with his chest/midriff.

United went on to lose the second reply 2-0 at St Andrews and Leicester were eventually beaten by Spurs in the final.

Maybe Silent Blade has more colour on this 😉

Sadly no VAR to act in our favour back then!
 
Greenwich Blade said:
There was nothing "common sense" about the fiasco that was the VAR process for the goal. And according to Mouth of the South the whole "deliberate" thing was brought in at the start of this season, so that's new.

United being shit is not the only reason I'm not enjoying my football this season; the whole Premier League thing is bollocks.
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Think it's been longer than that, Real Madrid had a goal disallowed against Liverpool in the Champs League final a couple of years ago when they adjudged that although a Liverpool defender knocked it to Benzema it wasn't deliberate so they gave it as offside.

Of course that could have been just the moment they made the rule up on the spot to help LiVARpool
 
NuddysGloves said:
I see this suggestion a lot but I really don't see how an appeals system can work in football.

When can the team appeal? If you say they can appeal the next time the ball goes out of play then what happens if the ball doesn't go out for 5 minutes and the other team score or if there's a red card etc within that time? You could say a team can appeal once a half and the ref will stop the game but teams will just start using them tactically to stop counter attacks.
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I see your point but it'd just be the case of captain or manager saying "Official VAR request" to the ref. Ref tells VAR immediately. VAR have a 20 second check.
 
Champagneblade said:
This is from my Dad.

It was the 60/61 season and United got all the way to the FA Cup Semi final where they played Leicester City.

The first match finished 0-0 at Elland Road so they replayed at the City Ground where it also finished 0-0. Doc Pace had the ball in the net for what would have been the winner and the ref caller handball. However, according to my Dad, it was a muddy day and you could see the imprint of the ball on Pace’s shirt where he put the ball in with his chest/midriff.

United went on to lose the second reply 2-0 at St Andrews and Leicester were eventually beaten by Spurs in the final.

Maybe Silent Blade has more colour on this 😉

Sadly no VAR to act in our favour back then!
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From now on I’m going be apoplectic with rage at any mention of Leicester - even though 2 of my better memories are agin them ( 4-0 TC / Birch’ ‘snog’ :5-2 “Blades Glory, 🐖 down”
 
dsr-burnley said:
Until the early 1970's, the goal would have been legal, because the rule was that a man in an offside position would (assuming he hadn't already interfered with play) be "play onside" when it touched a defender. This led to too many unfair goals when an offside player was played on by an accidental touch, so the whole "played on" rule was scrapped and the defender's touch made no difference.
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Do they actually publicise these changes to the rules/laws each season? It might be helpful if they did - then us poor fans might have some clue as to what's going on
 
Champagneblade said:
I was quite clear but now I’m confused.

Osborn was in an offside position when the header gets made.

Someone pointed out to me that the header was across goal rather than towards goal.

As such surely then the offside, which I thought was the initial reason, doesn’t get triggered.

Then it is the hitting of their man which propels the ball forwards which then finds Osborn offside.

Because he didn’t mean to play the ball, then this doesn’t count as him effectively playing the ball through intentionally like a back pass.

This seems rather counterintuitive. It’s only the action of the defender which triggers Osborn to be able to be engaged in the game, yet because he’s subjectively decided to have not played the ball, he’s then not culpable for what is effectively a back pass that would otherwise allow for a goal to be given.

Seems like such a load of horseshit to me.

Not like it just brushed him, his body deflected it significantly into Osborne’s path and if he wasn’t there to defend the corner intentionally, what the fuck was he doing there?

Let’s not forget that these are the same twats who decided not long ago that Marcus Rashford bearing down on the middle of the goal was not interfering with play!
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It’s similar to Hamilton losing to Verstappen in 21…rules abused or changed to suit the desired outcome…don’t believe for a second people are cheating but there is unconscious bias….doesn’t get given the other way around or against a top 4 club
 
It should have been allowed. Their player headed it to Osborn. Even though he didn’t mean to. 😂

The result should have been 1-4.

Their player stood almost on the line knocked in the fifth. Ronaldo had a similar goal disallowed when his team mate knocked one in.
 
I understand the rule (I think) but I don’t see the point of any of the appendices about an opponent making a deliberate pass or a deflection.

An attacking player makes a pass to a teammate in an offside position: surely the foul is committed at that moment when it leaves the attacking player’s boot (or head etc.). If that moment is followed by a deflection from a defender, or a deliberate slide-in and attempt to pass back to his keeper by the defender, it seems to me like those are both after the original foul was committed - the (attempted) pass to a player in an offside position. It seems logical to me that the foul has already happened from the original touch, so the ref should blow the whistle and give the free-kick; the moment of the foul is when it’s passed, not some time later if and when the attacker receives it - be that unimpeded, following a deflection, or following a deliberate defensive touch. They all happened after the foul didn’t they?
 
mattbianco1 said:
Why would a defender deliberately pass the ball to an attacker in any situation ? 🤣
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This is the issue.

Lets say, Anel passes to their player on purpose who is then offside when he passes it, could he not just go to the ref and say "didn't mean to do that ref"

Its bonkers. Just like the handball rule. Its stupid.
 
100% part time blade said:
I understand the rule (I think) but I don’t see the point of any of the appendices about an opponent making a deliberate pass or a deflection.

An attacking player makes a pass to a teammate in an offside position: surely the foul is committed at that moment when it leaves the attacking player’s boot (or head etc.). If that moment is followed by a deflection from a defender, or a deliberate slide-in and attempt to pass back to his keeper by the defender, it seems to me like those are both after the original foul was committed - the (attempted) pass to a player in an offside position. It seems logical to me that the foul has already happened from the original touch, so the ref should blow the whistle and give the free-kick; the moment of the foul is when it’s passed, not some time later if and when the attacker receives it - be that unimpeded, following a deflection, or following a deliberate defensive touch. They all happened after the foul didn’t they?
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What if the pass isn’t forward and only the defensive interception makes it forward?
 
Champagneblade said:
What if the pass isn’t forward and only the defensive interception makes it forward?
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I see . By my earlier logic that wouldn‘t be a foul, but that does at least offer some justification for needing to add on something about deflections because it looks a bit unfair if it happens. Normally I don’t like rules that punish attacking sides who haven’t intentionally tried to cheat (as the pass-making player who was trying to pass backwards in your example); but I can see that the player hanging around in an offside position is intentionally going against the rules, so I can see why they’d end up adding to the offside rule for that sort of case. It surely can’t happen very often though that a backwards pass is turned into a forward one by a deflection that takes it to an offside player.
 

dsr-burnley said:
What's the relevance of which way the ball is going? It makes no difference with offside.
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You’re right. I automatically think of an onside player who is ‘behind the ball’ having the ball played back to him - but it’s the behind the ball part that makes him onside, not the direction of the ball.
It’s too late to edit my first post that ‘ I think I understand the rule’ :)
 
ekke287 said:
It’s deflected off a defender so still counts as our phasE
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Its that term deflected, whats the defender doing other than jumping up to get a touch to hopefully clear the ball, if he wasnt there competing it wouldnt have changed the direction, in this case to Osborn, If it had gone over the bar it would have been a corner,
 
dsr-burnley said:
What's the relevance of which way the ball is going? It makes no difference with offside.
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Interesting, that answers my question too. Has the law always been like that? It feels like it was different to when I learned it in the 80s!

So regardless of the relatively recent accidental/deliberate split from when it comes off a defender, had the law never mentioned that the ball needs to be going forward for it to be offside?

-------------------GOAL---------------
---------------------GK------------------

-----------A1----------------------------
---------------------------A2------------
--------------------------/----------------
--------------------BALL---------------

Let's say for some reason 2 attackers are clean through on goal with no defenders in sight apart from the goalie.

If attacker A2 passes the ball backwards, with A1 ahead of him, but then A1 runs back, collects the ball and scores, it's offside?
 
ZoneManWilf said:
Interesting, that answers my question too. Has the law always been like that? It feels like it was different to when I learned it in the 80s!

So regardless of the relatively recent accidental/deliberate split from when it comes off a defender, had the law never mentioned that the ball needs to be going forward for it to be offside?

-------------------GOAL---------------
---------------------GK------------------

-----------A1----------------------------
---------------------------A2------------
--------------------------/----------------
--------------------BALL---------------

Let's say for some reason 2 attackers are clean through on goal with no defenders in sight apart from the goalie.

If attacker A2 passes the ball backwards, with A1 ahead of him, but then A1 runs back, collects the ball and scores, it's offside?
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Correct, and it has always been that way. It's never been relevant which way the ball is going, except of course (as you point out) that it is rare to be offside from a backwards pass because in most cases you won't be near the ball.
 
Who’d have thought that 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago that there would be such confusion to a rule that women used to be took the piss out of, to now even all us blokes (specialist matter been football😁) don’t have a fucking clue about on offside or handball or anything to do with the once beautiful game? It’s laughable to be honest, I’m at the stage of not giving 2 fucks if it was on or offside in any game, I honestly couldn’t give a shiny shit at the minute, they’re trying their hardest to make everything subjective so they can eventually make what ever decision they chose to. 😂😂😂

This is just a general post by the way on the matter but I did think the incident in question was offside at the time but haven’t seen it back yet and I’m not arsed at seeing it back either. 😁
 
ThatJa said:
This is the issue.

Lets say, Anel passes to their player on purpose who is then offside when he passes it, could he not just go to the ref and say "didn't mean to do that ref"

Its bonkers. Just like the handball rule. Its stupid.
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It's not the issue, you've misunderstood.

It doesn't matter where the attacker is stood when it came off the defender, regardless of whether the defender's touch is deliberate or not.

Osborn wasn't deemed offside because he was in an offside position when the ball came off Buonanotte. He was deemed offside because he was in an offside when our player headed it down.

The only reason Buonanotte's touch is relevant at all is because if it was deliberate, it would reset the play. Meaning no offside for Osborn.

The defender wouldn't need to "pass it to an attacker". It could be anything as simple as a backpass, or pass to a teammate.

As for the defender claiming it was an accident, that's got nothing to do with it. It's a subjective decision made by the referee. The player saying it was / wasn't delivered is about as relevant as them saying they fouled a player or not. It's nothing to do with what the player says.
 
Panini said:
As for the defender claiming it was an accident, that's got nothing to do with it. It's a subjective decision made by the referee. The player saying it was / wasn't delivered is about as relevant as them saying they fouled a player or not. It's nothing to do with what the player says.
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The original suggestion that offside should be ruled out because the player claims he did not intend to pass the ball to an opponent is fundamentally wrong. It only needs the player to have played the ball deliberately. Where it goes has no relevance to the question of offside or not.
 
Bladesman said:
It's not a conspiracy to get rid of us out the league but former officials like Clattenburg have pretty much gone on record saying they have their own personal bias against us. So I believe referees have their own bias's against certain clubs.

Then you throw in your Mike Dean's in the VAR room protecting his mate on the pitch by not correcting a decision.
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Don’t forget Oliver’s watch not working and Hawkeye not turned on
 
Champagneblade said:
This is from my Dad.

It was the 60/61 season and United got all the way to the FA Cup Semi final where they played Leicester City.

The first match finished 0-0 at Elland Road so they replayed at the City Ground where it also finished 0-0. Doc Pace had the ball in the net for what would have been the winner and the ref caller handball. However, according to my Dad, it was a muddy day and you could see the imprint of the ball on Pace’s shirt where he put the ball in with his chest/midriff.

United went on to lose the second reply 2-0 at St Andrews and Leicester were eventually beaten by Spurs in the final.

Maybe Silent Blade has more colour on this 😉

Sadly no VAR to act in our favour back then!
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Yep I was there ! First match at Elland Rd I was on the side (terrace) just opposite where it happened ! 60 + years ago and I still think it was a good goal.
 

Bladesman said:
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I hope this now settles the argument. Osborn was offside throughout and was correctly called offside by the end of the VAR review. I just wish we could all hear these dicussions as they are happening so that the fans are included and not left speculating as to what happened on the pitch.
 
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