Our Fans

[Fulwood Blade]

There WAS too much backward movement today though.
We do it when it isn't even necessary, when there's players in space upfield.

yes, and that in a nutshell is the problem.

At 2-1 and against 10 you need to be positive - first look should be forward with someone moving into space to receive the ball.

Many are being fooled by the fact we COULD have scored 6 or 7 - we actually SHOULD have scored 4 or 5 and didn't,

We COULD have scored more v Colchester and didn't - and we lost because they like Bury out played us in midfield.

A win is a win, but there are many rose tinted glasses on tonight.

Role on Tuesday - now that is a real test against...................Burton...........we are average in a shitier division than last season.

UTB

 

[Rodley]

yes, and that in a nutshell is the problem.

At 2-1 and against 10 you need to be positive - first look should be forward with someone moving into space to receive the ball.

Many are being fooled by the fact we COULD have scored 6 or 7 - we actually SHOULD have scored 4 or 5 and didn't,

We COULD have scored more v Colchester and didn't - and we lost because they like Bury out played us in midfield.

A win is a win, but there are many rose tined glasses on tonight.

Role on Tuesday - now that is a real test against...................Burton...........we are average in a shitier division than last season.

UTB

Early days though yet under a new manager. Let's remain (!!!) patient.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Early days though yet under a new manager. Let's remain (!!!) patient.

yes you have a point, and mine is not a moan.

I can just see what is coming if we do not solve central midfield. With 11 v 11 on the field it could as someone else have said have been 4-4.

If we were more clinical and not shoddy, we would have beaten Colchester and we actually gave some stupid opportunities to Donny to equalise with fouls outside the box.

Donny's goal was because Flynn and Basham were way too far up and we got caught.

As I said previous, better midfields than ours Chezzer/Bury & Colchester) have all done us in midfield and we lost 2 of those on our own pitch.
Before half time Donny were very comfortable in midfield.

It's a good job we played against 10 in the second half.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

..............and while we are at it - take a look at where the teams are we have taken points off.

We have PLENTY of work to do.

UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

yes you have a point, and mine is not a moan.

I can just see what is coming if we do not solve central midfield. With 11 v 11 on the field it could as someone else have said have been 4-4.

If we were more clinical and not shoddy, we would have beaten Colchester and we actually gave some stupid opportunities to Donny to equalise with fouls outside the box.

Donny's goal was because Flynn and Basham were way too far up and we got caught.

As I said previous, better midfields than ours Chezzer/Bury & Colchester) have all done us in midfield and we lost 2 of those on our own pitch.
Before half time Donny were very comfortable in midfield.

It's a good job we played against 10 in the second half.

UTB

Good valid points . The other thing to take into account , is that the league is much of a muchness , with every team being able to beat each other . Thats why this season could go either way for us . In saying that , if Adkins can bring in the 2no players , being continually talked about , then we have a greater chance of being succesful.

IMO we still require a leader to organise on the pitch , and ensure players think , concentrate , and not switch off. We are just above average at the moment again IMO.

Not a moan , more of a observation. Burton a test for us , let us see how we cope.

UTB

 

[James Boreman]

Thank god someone said this, it all stems from our fans being brought up on hoof. The sooner they realise the games moved on and realise keeping the ball is a positive thing the better. The worst today was when the crowd erupted with anger after Baxter played it back when he was surrounded by three Donny men.
I'm no football expert but the majority of our fans football knowledge is embaressing.

 

[Pinchy]

He went ,did you ?

I did. I heard morons booing our team when we were 2-1 up. At no stage was there a consistent volume of positive vocal support for our team. Some of our fans are amongst the least sophisticated in the land. You are one of them.

 

[Pinchy]

It's a shame that after a good win that gets us back on track we've got threads slagging our fans off.

Some mistakenly think they are a better breed of football fan because they never criticise.

You agree with the morons booing, yes booing, our team at 2-1 up?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.....

 

[Pinchy]

Thank god someone said this, it all stems from our fans being brought up on hoof. The sooner they realise the games moved on and realise keeping the ball is a positive thing the better. The worst today was when the crowd erupted with anger after Baxter played it back when he was surrounded by three Donny men.

I'm no football expert but the majority of our fans football knowledge is embaressing.

James, James, James. I adore you. Let me buy you a pint or two of ale. Do not underestimate yourself. Your first paragraph entirely negates the unnecessary modesty of the second. If only we had more like you in S2 I would not be driven to despair quite so often as I am. Embarrassing is exactly right.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Some wonderful and yet oh so typically S2 responses already in this thread.

Question for those that thought our play was far too tippy tappy sideways / backwards bullshit today.

Has it crossed your minds that this tippy tappy bollocks that you are referring to has been a major factor in our gaining 3 points today ?

Is it fair to say that there was a distinct change in passing style in direct comparison with the games against Colchester and Bury, where from where I was sat, we lumped it far more frequently with possession turning round more often as a direct result ?

Just a thought ;-)

UTB

 

[James Boreman]

Our fans would almost certainly boo at premier league games, way too much passing! Don't give me this tired of league one nonsense as an excuse. The best sides in the country and the world retain possession in the same manner we did today. It's all part of winning football matches.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

There were some around me (myself included) who thought we try too hard to dink it from one player to another on our own 18 yard box when sometimes the best option should be to just get rid.

Get rid.

The modern way is to retain possession even in tight areas at the back, using the keeper as your last outlet and general safety net.

Launching the ball aimlessly upfield is not always the percentage option as it gives the opposition possession and chance to build.

At some point I reckon Baxter will make a blind pass to Howard and it'll be picked off for a goal.

I fear the consequences.

I think this *is* the way to play and the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

[PeteBlade]

You agree with the morons booing, yes booing, our team at 2-1 up?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.....

You like making things up?

 

[judge]

James, James, James. I adore you. Let me buy you a pint or two of ale. Do not underestimate yourself. Your first paragraph entirely negates the unnecessary modesty of the second. If only we had more like you in S2 I would not be driven to despair quite so often as I am. Embarrassing is exactly right.

 

[him behind you]

Sorry to pick you up on this fella, But this is exactly what I mean. Retention of the football while not under pressure, in ANY area of the pitch should be our number one objective. Thankfully this does appear to be Adkins mantra so I suggest you and others strap yourself in to your seats, sit back and learn to appreciate what the players are trying to do.

Lump it in row Z when under pressure. Why risk it ?

But when we have players in space to pass to that are behind the ball, make the pass, retain the ball, start again.

Basic.

UTB

Spot on mate. Bottom line is (although I only watched it on bet Fred in turkey) we were winning and Donny can't score if they don't have the ball. Control possession and you have a better chance of controlling the game. Knock it "hopefully " forward simply becomes a game of chance and unless you have the right type of player to chase and win those (as we did under Bassett but we don't now).

 

[him behind you]

Spot on mate. Bottom line is (although I only watched it on bet Fred in turkey) we were winning and Donny can't score if they don't have the ball. Control possession and you have a better chance of controlling the game. Knock it "hopefully " forward simply becomes a game of chance and unless you have the right type of player to chase and win those (as we did under Bassett but we don't now).

To finish this.... you simply allow the opposition to develop their own attacks.

 

[robbiez666]

If you have an extra man on the pitch you pass the ball around to tire out the opposition. Football 101. Keep possession and make them chase around until they tire out. Keep it moving until you create some space.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Another aspect of this is the pitch. In the 80s and 90s the pitches were literally ;-) minefields and playing it around at the.back the ball was likely to be bobbling around at shin height.

These days they're more like snooker tables, technique has improved and even Neil Collins looks like Franz Beckenbauer.

It's progress.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Another aspect of this is the pitch. In the 80s and 90s the pitches were literally ;-) minefields and playing it around at the.back the ball was likely to be bobbling around at shin height.

These days they're more like snooker tables, technique has improved and even Neil Collins looks like Franz Beckenbauer.

It's progress.

The only time that Collins has ever and will ever be mentioned in the same sentence as Beckenbauer !!

Love it

UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Another aspect of this is the pitch. In the 80s and 90s the pitches were literally ;-) minefields and playing it around at the.back the ball was likely to be bobbling around at shin height.

These days they're more like snooker tables, technique has improved and even Neil Collins looks like Franz Beckenbauer.

It's progress.

WHF - think you meant Franz Battenberg ( cake maker )

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Good valid points . The other thing to take into account , is that the league is much of a muchness , with every team being able to beat each other . Thats why this season could go either way for us . In saying that , if Adkins can bring in the 2no players , being continually talked about , then we have a greater chance of being succesful.

IMO we still require a leader to organise on the pitch , and ensure players think , concentrate , and not switch off. We are just above average at the moment again IMO.

Not a moan , more of a observation. Burton a test for us , let us see how we cope.

UTB

The next signing could be crucial - if it is to be Hammond then he HAS to be a leader.

I watched again, Baxter play a few decent balls in midfield, but ALL he does is play a pass and sit and admire it instead of wanting the ball back, then play another pass and want the ball again. The experiment of Flynn on the left was not good either. To be fair, Coutts played ok, but is he a RM? Basham was the best on show but he has been inconsistent as he learns his new role.

Yes the league is average and we MUST be the team to step up and make the league ours, but to do that it has to be CM that commands the game for us and at the moment we are just blowing cold and luke warm.

This league is there for the taking - and with all due respect (serious) - that is why Burton, Walsall and Gillingham are top three.

I have unhappy memories of the preseason game at Burton when they dumped us 4 nil, we cannot afford to lose again because after having lost to Gills, Bury and the ever improving Colchester that would actually prove we are AVERAGE. It is quite a pivotal test for us as the league has now just about settled down.

Can we step up?

UTB

 

[grafikhaus]

I went and it was average.

Do not be fooled by the result.

Sure it could have ben 6 ,it could also have ended in a draw.

The simple fact at 2-1 and playing 10, we were negative IMHO. If we had have got a third early then it could have been different.

Well, in reality we pissed round playing back, playing it sideways when what it needed, as usual, was general in centre midfield.

Is it a moan - yes it is.........a better team with 11 could have beaten us - Playing 10 was the only reason we looked half decent.

Still plenty on work to do, as once again we seem to have experimented in midfield. Adkins, as Clough did all last season does not know his best team - I hope he decided quicker than Clough ever did.

Well put. Although we played much better than of late, I certainly didn't fancy going into the last five minutes just one goal in front. (the ref. was itching to give them a pen.) Don't agree with the 'Playing 10 was the only reason we looked half decent.' bit. We showed good intent from the off and it was only bad luck that we didn't score more, not bad play.

Work in progress, and every chance we'll be brought back down to earth on Tuesday.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Well put. Although we played much better than of late, I certainly didn't fancy going into the last five minutes just one goal in front. (the ref. was itching to give them a pen.) Don't agree with the 'Playing 10 was the only reason we looked half decent.' bit. We showed good intent from the off and it was only bad luck that we didn't score more, not bad play.

Work in progress, and every chance we'll be brought back down to earth on Tuesday.

The point about playing 10, is Donny coped quite well and still got forward. We didn't seem to make the extra man count in their half and it is very very easy to push the ball about in our half against 10. We needed to be clinical in midfield. You pass and move against 10, we find that style of football very difficult.

We were better as you said, but against 10 on your own pitch we should have "looked" more clinical but didn't.

Work in Progress but the doubt for me was losing at home to Bury and Colchester as they showed how easy it is to play against us when all you have to do is press in midfield. We must strengthen CM and not allow small teams to dominate play against us. We will end up being inconsistent if not which is what we have seen up to now.

UTB

 

[blader]

Well, OK, I'll throw out the negative points from yesterday then. Just because we won doesn't mean there can't be areas to work on and improve.

1. Mark Howard. Pfft, just so unconvincing a lot of the time. Had very little to do, but when he does it he hardly fills me with confidence. His distribution is as awful as it ever has been, and he's hardly the world's greatest shot-stopper either. Think he escapes a lot of flack IMO.
2. Ryan Flynn. Sorry mate, as much a trier that you are, just doesn't offer enough. Started out wide as our only 'natural' winger, but offered much less from that side than Coutts/Alcock combination on the right. He's too lightweight, and lacks the pace/craft to beat a full-back. Moved into the number 10 role later on, and was equally ineffective there. Should have been replaced instead of Baxter for me. Need Done/Adams for these wide positions quickly.
3. Defence. Just generally! Every time teams come forward they look like they can score. We back off, and allow them space in and around the box so often. Thy look petrified to get tight to their attackers, particularly in the centre of the park, which is obviously the worst place to allow them freedom! We desperately need a Centre half.
3a. On this note, if we are going to persist with a 2 man midfield, why is Basham the one playing further forward? I think Baxter's a great player, but he certainly doesn't offer the back 4 any protection, allowing for teams to stroll through us in the central areas, as raised in the last point. Seems really odd to me. Thought we looked better in a 4-2-3-1 at the end, with Reed and Basham holding. Still don't think 4-4-2 suits our players.

Positives:

1. Sharp. Best striker in the league by far. Was one of the ones desperate for us to re-sign him, and delighted he's repaying my faith. Movement and touch are on another level to every other player on the pitch. His only problem is regularly making exceptional runs which our other players aren't capable of seeing/finding!
2. K Wallace. Will hold off on the praise slightly, as he did have a fairly easy afternoon against 10 men and no attacker on his side. However, put in a decent performance (probably his best for us) and looked assured, whilst trying to join in attacks. Should keep his place certainly until Harris returns, and maybe after if he continues.
3. Adams. Just offers us something completely different. We have no pace in our starting 11 from today, but he offers directness, power and pace all wrapped into one, with a bit of flair to boot. Really like the lad, hopefully will be back on Tuesday, in place of Flynn.

There's pros and cons in our play. Ultimately, we are nowhere near the side Wolves/Bristol City/Bournemouth have been, but we should have the quality to be top 6 at the very least. I'd like to think with the right additions in 2/3 areas will send us flying above the other (let's face it) rather non-discript teams sat above us in the table. Winger and CB the 2 priorities for me.

 

[robbiez666]

Well, OK, I'll throw out the negative points from yesterday then. Just because we won doesn't mean there can't be areas to work on and improve.

1. Mark Howard. Pfft, just so unconvincing a lot of the time. Had very little to do, but when he does it he hardly fills me with confidence. His distribution is as awful as it ever has been, and he's hardly the world's greatest shot-stopper either. Think he escapes a lot of flack IMO.
2. Ryan Flynn. Sorry mate, as much a trier that you are, just doesn't offer enough. Started out wide as our only 'natural' winger, but offered much less from that side than Coutts/Alcock combination on the right. He's too lightweight, and lacks the pace/craft to beat a full-back. Moved into the number 10 role later on, and was equally ineffective there. Should have been replaced instead of Baxter for me. Need Done/Adams for these wide positions quickly.
3. Defence. Just generally! Every time teams come forward they look like they can score. We back off, and allow them space in and around the box so often. Thy look petrified to get tight to their attackers, particularly in the centre of the park, which is obviously the worst place to allow them freedom! We desperately need a Centre half.
3a. On this note, if we are going to persist with a 2 man midfield, why is Basham the one playing further forward? I think Baxter's a great player, but he certainly doesn't offer the back 4 any protection, allowing for teams to stroll through us in the central areas, as raised in the last point. Seems really odd to me. Thought we looked better in a 4-2-3-1 at the end, with Reed and Basham holding. Still don't think 4-4-2 suits our players.

Positives:

1. Sharp. Best striker in the league by far. Was one of the ones desperate for us to re-sign him, and delighted he's repaying my faith. Movement and touch are on another level to every other player on the pitch. His only problem is regularly making exceptional runs which our other players aren't capable of seeing/finding!
2. K Wallace. Will hold off on the praise slightly, as he did have a fairly easy afternoon against 10 men and no attacker on his side. However, put in a decent performance (probably his best for us) and looked assured, whilst trying to join in attacks. Should keep his place certainly until Harris returns, and maybe after if he continues.
3. Adams. Just offers us something completely different. We have no pace in our starting 11 from today, but he offers directness, power and pace all wrapped into one, with a bit of flair to boot. Really like the lad, hopefully will be back on Tuesday, in place of Flynn.

There's pros and cons in our play. Ultimately, we are nowhere near the side Wolves/Bristol City/Bournemouth have been, but we should have the quality to be top 6 at the very least. I'd like to think with the right additions in 2/3 areas will send us flying above the other (let's face it) rather non-discript teams sat above us in the table. Winger and CB the 2 priorities for me.

Great post, there's so many overreactions on here, it's nice to see a balanced, sensible post

Apparently Alcock is now brilliant and Freeman is shit after 45 minutes,Coutts is suddenly an vital player in our team, Baxter is the answer in CM and Basham is brilliant. It's comedy gold. Lose on Tuesday and they'll be all crap again.

 

[bogo40]

So So many demonstrate a genuine lack of understanding of basic football tactics.

How many times were loud jeers heard today whenever a forward pass was not made ??

Not saying that forward passes were sometimes "on" but not made / seen. But I would trust our manager and players to decide when the penetration and transition should be made above lumping hopeful balls forwards every day of the week.

We completely dominated that game from minute one and for many, cos the ball was not in the danger areas for the entire 90 mins, this constitutes negative play !!!!

Not looking for a row but seriously, quite a few need to get a basic grasp of tactical understanding before spouting nonsense.

Not entirely sure thats the case. If the team had a defence that was capable of playing the ball across the back without getting into a right old mess, and then giving the ball away in bad areas then I might agree.
The fact that most of the time when there was either space in front of a player with the ball, or just better positions available in front of the ball, and then the ball went backwards , makes a lot of fans wonder if the players are good enough or have the hot potato mentality.
I am all for playing the ball around but it needs to be done at a decent speed and with accuracy, Thats not what we are seeing at the moment

 

[sitwell]

Well, OK, I'll throw out the negative points from yesterday then. Just because we won doesn't mean there can't be areas to work on and improve.

1. Mark Howard. Pfft, just so unconvincing a lot of the time. Had very little to do, but when he does it he hardly fills me with confidence. His distribution is as awful as it ever has been, and he's hardly the world's greatest shot-stopper either. Think he escapes a lot of flack IMO.
2. Ryan Flynn. Sorry mate, as much a trier that you are, just doesn't offer enough. Started out wide as our only 'natural' winger, but offered much less from that side than Coutts/Alcock combination on the right. He's too lightweight, and lacks the pace/craft to beat a full-back. Moved into the number 10 role later on, and was equally ineffective there. Should have been replaced instead of Baxter for me. Need Done/Adams for these wide positions quickly.
3. Defence. Just generally! Every time teams come forward they look like they can score. We back off, and allow them space in and around the box so often. Thy look petrified to get tight to their attackers, particularly in the centre of the park, which is obviously the worst place to allow them freedom! We desperately need a Centre half.
3a. On this note, if we are going to persist with a 2 man midfield, why is Basham the one playing further forward? I think Baxter's a great player, but he certainly doesn't offer the back 4 any protection, allowing for teams to stroll through us in the central areas, as raised in the last point. Seems really odd to me. Thought we looked better in a 4-2-3-1 at the end, with Reed and Basham holding. Still don't think 4-4-2 suits our players.

Positives:

1. Sharp. Best striker in the league by far. Was one of the ones desperate for us to re-sign him, and delighted he's repaying my faith. Movement and touch are on another level to every other player on the pitch. His only problem is regularly making exceptional runs which our other players aren't capable of seeing/finding!
2. K Wallace. Will hold off on the praise slightly, as he did have a fairly easy afternoon against 10 men and no attacker on his side. However, put in a decent performance (probably his best for us) and looked assured, whilst trying to join in attacks. Should keep his place certainly until Harris returns, and maybe after if he continues.
3. Adams. Just offers us something completely different. We have no pace in our starting 11 from today, but he offers directness, power and pace all wrapped into one, with a bit of flair to boot. Really like the lad, hopefully will be back on Tuesday, in place of Flynn.

There's pros and cons in our play. Ultimately, we are nowhere near the side Wolves/Bristol City/Bournemouth have been, but we should have the quality to be top 6 at the very least. I'd like to think with the right additions in 2/3 areas will send us flying above the other (let's face it) rather non-discript teams sat above us in the table. Winger and CB the 2 priorities for me.

Disagree massively on Flynn ,his pass made the first goal and he was involved in everything good in the game. He provides great protection for the full back he is playing in front of ,far more than Adams.Just notice how well the ful backs play when he plays ,very intelligent player who makes us a better team both defensively and attacking. Also disagree on Howards distribution ,don't know what more he could do with it to be honest.

 

[BushBlade]

Disagree massively on Flynn ,his pass made the first goal and he was involved in everything good in the game. He provides great protection for the full back he is playing in front of ,far more than Adams.Just notice how well the ful backs play when he plays ,very intelligent player who makes us a better team both defensively and attacking. Also disagree on Howards distribution ,don't know what more he could do with it to be honest.

It's been a while since Flynn played regularly on the left and he's been out injured for a long time. He's always going to be a solid team player rather than a crowd pleaser and will always be a player that attracts criticism from supporters but still gets picked regularly.

 

[BeccyBlade]

Disagree with you about Flynn his contribution and distribution led to the first goal. Also I believe it was his harassment of the player that led to the poor back pass and Billy's goal! We look a lot more positive with him in the side and he wins the ball back
high up the pitch. When back to match fitness he will beat the defender on more occasions than seen today.
Disagree about che today. Don't get me wrong I love his pace and raw talent. However today he tried to be too clever and forgot to do the simple stuff well. This is my opinion and by no means me slating him. I rate him but think he had a lot to learn. Agree on Howard, frightens the life out of me when they are attacking-thankfully not much pressure from Donny today.
As for the fans who booed when we kept the ball before half time-not impressed.
We are now joint top scorers in the league and we look like there's goals in the side. However we've conceded almost the most goals in the league. Another centre half is desperately needed, we seem to be dragging Edgar down to our defensive level! Winger is certainly not a priority at this point.

 

[robbiez666]

The key to getting promoted from this league is consistency. The two to go up automatically will be the most consistent. Almost all the teams from about 15 upwards have won and lost to teams unexpectedly.