Not been the same since Berge came in...

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He plays a shit pass and spends the next 5 seconds apolosing. He sends out a weak header and isn't the next man to the ball. He's a good player but his win lose stats for us as a game changer are horrendous.
 



Obviously Chris sees the fuller picture but with a 5 man defence why would we need a defence midfielder when we needed players in more attacking roles? I understand that when a defender moves out he should in theory move back but with the activity of the midfield previous to him coming the work rate was very high and covered the space, this all imo And after the horse has bolted but I believe a more dynamic midfielder would have better suited. I’ll get back to my arm chair now or behind it!
 
I've been thinking this for a while now.

His signing managed to piss off 2/3's of a midfield unit that was working absolutely fine until that point as Lunny was immediately dropped and Norwood will have known that he was his replacement in the not too distant future even though he'd done very little wrong up to that point.

I completely get that if we had waited until the summer we may not have got him but it was a poor choice of signing at that point in the season IMO when things were going swimmingly.
 
Strange how some players seem to be undropable despite the poor form. Why not try Norwood fleck & Lunny to get back to basics.

McBurnie & Sharp starting today with Mousset & Brewster on the bench was strange after the poor run & lack of goals. I appreciate McBurnie scored last week but it’s clear neither are nowhere near good enough at this level, we need pace and ball carriers to get us up the pitch.
 
It’s time to go back to the tried and tested, Berge just doesn’t fit, the OP is spot on, it’s all gone tits up since He came, Wilder needs to swallow some pride and drop him, being back Oli.
 
Blaming one player, Berge in particular, is pretty lazy or at best misguided tbf.

Our midfield functioned as part of a unique system, which has fallen flat.

With the greatest respect we are a squad for the most part of middling / upper championship players, and success in the prior 2 seasons has been because we have been greater than the sum of its parts. Of our squad VERY few get into any other Premier League first team.

Some reasons we are in the shit.

Losing 2 best players Hendo and JOC - a third of our defensive unit which ALL our success was built on last year.
Losing fans being 12th man
Teams effectively nullifying our system
Lost momentum & confidence
Fluffed chances and defensive cock ups
Poor recruitment
Near enough all players losing form

Theres part bad luck and part bad judgement, but pinning it on an individual is frankly a bad opinion.
 
Rufus Smalls said:
Then name a player who’s had 4.
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I can name plenty of players who have had more than four good games since they arrived. They've earned some slack, I'm genuinely perplexed by the vigorous defence Berge gets since he hasn't.
 
JonnyD said:
Blaming one player, Berge in particular, is pretty lazy or at best misguided tbf.

Our midfield functioned as part of a unique system, which has fallen flat.

With the greatest respect we are a squad for the most part of middling / upper championship players, and success in the prior 2 seasons has been because we have been greater than the sum of its parts. Of our squad VERY few get into any other Premier League first team.

Some reasons we are in the shit.

Losing 2 best players Hendo and JOC - a third of our defensive unit which ALL our success was built on last year.
Losing fans being 12th man
Teams effectively nullifying our system
Lost momentum & confidence
Fluffed chances and defensive cock ups
Poor recruitment
Near enough all players losing form

Theres part bad luck and part bad judgement, but pinning it on an individual is frankly a bad opinion.
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I'd suggest reading the OP as what you've done is the epitome of lazy as you clearly haven't...

Blaming loss of fans and then nebulous throw away comments such as 'poor recruitment, players losing form, lost momentum' - jees with insights such as that there's a job awaiting you on the MOTD panel...
 
Guesty said:
I can name plenty of players who have had more than four good games since they arrived. They've earned some slack, I'm genuinely perplexed by the vigorous defence Berge gets since he hasn't.
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The team have certainly nose dived since January when Berge arrived, but name a player who has been consistently performing well in that time. I’m assuming we are analysing the free fall we have been in the whole of 2020.
 
Today’s game what made things worse than it already is was tha lack of effort and fight panicky and couldn’t string passes together it was the worst of the season for me in that respect regardless of the opposition
 
Rufus Smalls said:
The team have certainly nose dived since January when Berge arrived, but name a player who has been consistently performing well in that time. I’m assuming we are analysing the free fall we have been in the whole of 2020.
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I'm not saying Berge is the reason we've plummeted, my point is that while most of the other players have played well previously, Berge has a fanatical following in some quarters (not saying you here) but I don't know how he's earned it. Good looks, a high fee, that Spurs game and one match in the CL against Liverpool as far as I can tell.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Berge probably (definitely) hasn’t been worth the money.

But can’t really be separated from

  • no fans
  • broken JOC
  • loss of confidence from everyone else in the side
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Lack of fans has killed us somewhat but I think our reaction to everything has been poor:

  • Not resolving the Lunny situation properly letting it drag on for so long when it was clear for a long time he wasn't going to sign a deal
  • Not noticing JOC was injured sooner
  • Not noticing Moose was injured sooner
  • Letting Freeman go out on loan and not having someone else to replace him, so we can at least change the system
  • Not getting someone in to replace JOC despite having another loan available
  • Not getting someone in to replace Lunny since he has no intention of staying here
 
Guesty said:
I'm not saying Berge is the reason we've plummeted, my point is that while most of the other players have played well previously, Berge has a fanatical following in some quarters (not saying you here) but I don't know how he's earned it. Good looks, a high fee, that Spurs game and one match in the CL against Liverpool as far as I can tell.
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This is what baffles me. I don't for one minute think Berge is a bad player but why does he get let off when the others are labelled championship players? I've seen Lundstram, Fleck and Norwood boss Premier League games many times. I've seen them have far more good Premier League performances than I have Berge.
 



IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
I'd suggest reading the OP as what you've done is the epitome of lazy as you clearly haven't...

Blaming loss of fans and then nebulous throw away comments such as 'poor recruitment, players losing form, lost momentum' - jees with insights such as that there's a job awaiting you on the MOTD panel...
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Not a pop at any individual poster, more the general sentiment of pinpointing a single player or single reason for our demise. As in my view that's reductive, and yes perhaps a bit lazy.

Hence the list of broader contributing factors to our demise, more to make the point that there is a myriad of factors both large and small impacting us. 👍
 
knockoffnigel said:
Strange how some players seem to be undropable despite the poor form. Why not try Norwood fleck & Lunny to get back to basics.

McBurnie & Sharp starting today with Mousset & Brewster on the bench was strange after the poor run & lack of goals. I appreciate McBurnie scored last week but it’s clear neither are nowhere near good enough at this level, we need pace and ball carriers to get us up the pitch.
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mcburnie needs pulling out now all we do when hes in team is hoof it if were gonna carry on playing 2 up top it has to be mousset and brewster and see if they can form a partnership even if they only last 65 minutes with mcburnie and burke as late subs im afraid billy and goldie shouldnt be near our first 11
 
Guesty said:
I'm not saying Berge is the reason we've plummeted, my point is that while most of the other players have played well previously, Berge has a fanatical following in some quarters (not saying you here) but I don't know how he's earned it. Good looks, a high fee, that Spurs game and one match in the CL against Liverpool as far as I can tell.
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Yes mate I see your point. In all fairness I have got blinkered Berge glasses on as I think he is a very good player in a poor side and I can also see your point of view that for the fee we have paid he hasn’t produced. I’d still like to keep hold of him as I think it’s the likes of Norwood and Lunny who need to be let go for better replacements.

UTB Mate !!
 
Rufus Smalls said:
Yes mate I see your point. In all fairness I have got blinkered Berge glasses on as I think he is a very good player in a poor side and I can also see your point of view that for the fee we have paid he hasn’t produced. I’d still like to keep hold of him as I think it’s the likes of Norwood and Lunny who need to be let go for better replacements.

UTB Mate !!
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Berge might turn out to be a good player, but he’s shown very little so far....
 
Hammond was a terrible signing we all jumped on him when the team was playing horrendously, the manager can only pick 11 players if one is the weak link then it shows the results may be coincidental but to get a winning formula you have to look for the break down and change it he’s the only outfield player that has been in a rapidly declining side.
 
Why doesn’t our recruitment marry up to our system, team ethic and style of play?
 
He’s had moments of looking class, but it’s so rare. He either doesn’t have the stomach for getting stuck in when the going gets tough or he’s not actually that good. Either way, don’t want him.
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Not usually one for knee jerk reactions but had a bottle of red with lunch so thought I'd join in the pile on!!

Personally think Berge joining has been the catalyst for this downward spiral. You can chart the demise of Norwood and Lundstram to the day he walked through the door. Our system worked so well at the start of last season due to Lundstram's lung bursting runs and Norwood's ubiquitous pings...

The merits of him as a player can be debated but the impact of his arrival cannot...

Plus he was by far our worst player today...
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Razor_Blade said:
He is a good player, but doesn't fit in with what's around him. He will do well in a good team but he's no one even near his quality in our side to play with. And the fact we make up for it by relying on tempo to catch teams, and he slows it down too much.
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The poor standard we’ve set this year means that even an average player like Berge can easily top the player ratings.
 
And we also played poor last season when he wasn't in the team. So?
 
IdLiketoRogerMoore said:
Not usually one for knee jerk reactions but had a bottle of red with lunch so thought I'd join in the pile on!!

Personally think Berge joining has been the catalyst for this downward spiral. You can chart the demise of Norwood and Lundstram to the day he walked through the door. Our system worked so well at the start of last season due to Lundstram's lung bursting runs and Norwood's ubiquitous pings...

The merits of him as a player can be debated but the impact of his arrival cannot...

Plus he was by far our worst player today...
Click to expand...
👏👏👏👏👏👏 someone with a bit of vision! Well said been saying this from the first day I watched him but got slaughtered on here for saying it! Agree massively 👏👏👍👍👍👍
 
Maybe it's all Jack Robinson's fault, our demise also coincided with his signing. Maybe he's now not involved due to being a terrible influence and is bringing the whole team down.

Or maybe, just maybe, we were over achieving and fortunate in winning some really tight games last season. Lockdown then halted out momentum, we picked up injuries and have a squad devoid of confidence. Seems a bit far fetched though, so I'll go with the Robinson thing..
 
All the positive remarks about him earlier and now he is trash for you guys. lol. it's just not correct. I have seen in other teams forums how people have talked positive about Berge in earlier games. Hard to shine in a team totally without confidence. Confidence in the team is everything. You need a new manager, just to restart, or some kind of team talk that infuses the team with belief and determination. One win and you can start turning it around. Blaming Berge is just silly. Everyone's to blame, players and manager. And the psychological issue here means a lot imo. And the prem is a really hard league when you start struggling and the team looses belief.

Besides, Berge have never been a creative attacking midfielder. He was a DM when you bought him!
 



Fans - “Lets sign better players”

Also fans - “Someone else!”

Which player since restart has been above average for us consistently?

Berge needs these around him to thrive, when others play well he plays well. When they’re shit he looks lost.

But yeah, he’s the problem, as opposed to the numerous games where Lunny, Norwood, Fleck and Ampadu have been nonexistent.
 
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