Norwood & Style of Play

[Putney Blade]

Just seen clip of Utd beating Bradford. What a contrast. Midfielders running at pace down the middle, causing defenders to back track and creating havoc & opportunities. And of course wing backs & overlapping defenders. We don't do that now. Everything is sooo slow and sideways. Hard to break through two sets of defenders with this style. Norwood is central to this. Good player but his & our style of play is to build slowly. It is too predictable. Not explosive or dynamic. Lack athleticism & power down the middle. Fleck apart no box to box midfielders (how many of our midfielders get in front of our forwards?). There are many things wrong with our offensive play, but midfield ain't creating or scoring enough. Been like this for past 3 years. Putting two attack midfielders on the shopping list is surely a must!

 

[Bladesince59]

Just seen clip of Utd beating Bradford. What a contrast. Midfielders running at pace down the middle, causing defenders to back track and creating havoc & opportunities. And of course wing backs & overlapping defenders. We don't do that now. Everything is sooo slow and sideways. Hard to break through two sets of defenders with this style. Norwood is central to this. Good player but his & our style of play is to build slowly. It is too predictable. Not explosive or dynamic. Lack athleticism & power down the middle. Fleck apart no box to box midfielders (how many of our midfielders get in front of our forwards?). There are many things wrong with our offensive play, but midfield ain't creating or scoring enough. Been like this for past 3 years. Putting two attack midfielders on the shopping list is surely a must!

And it's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Blacksea]

We decided Burke,Freeman and Robinson were the way to go.

 

[Harry's Game]

Coutts was playing the Norwood role in that team, It’s not Norwood that’s the problem it’s not having a Duffy and 2017 Fleck around him.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Coutts was playing the Norwood role in that team, It’s not Norwood that’s the problem it’s not having a Duffy and 2017 Fleck around him.

Coutts didn't really play "the Norwood role." Coutts progressed the ball up field by carrying it or through short passes and triangles.
He didn't just sit at the base spreading it right and left.

I think the OP makes an interesting point. Norwood is critical to how we play, but is how we play the best way? I've thought not for some time.

 

[him behind you]

Just seen clip of Utd beating Bradford. What a contrast. Midfielders running at pace down the middle, causing defenders to back track and creating havoc & opportunities. And of course wing backs & overlapping defenders. We don't do that now. Everything is sooo slow and sideways. Hard to break through two sets of defenders with this style. Norwood is central to this. Good player but his & our style of play is to build slowly. It is too predictable. Not explosive or dynamic. Lack athleticism & power down the middle. Fleck apart no box to box midfielders (how many of our midfielders get in front of our forwards?). There are many things wrong with our offensive play, but midfield ain't creating or scoring enough. Been like this for past 3 years. Putting two attack midfielders on the shopping list is surely a must!

Midfielders getting in front of our forwards? On Friday we were lucky if Norwood or Hourihan actually made it further forward than our centre halves.

 

[Wards]

Far too simplistic to single an individual out, we are simply playing too safe for my liking. Very difficult for Norwood to play his game when there's no one showing in progressive areas of the pitch. I think the full backs and centre halves need to be willing to find more space and whoever is playing up top needs to offer an easier out-ball. McBurnie was static on Friday and that really hinders us. Osborn and Gibbs-White didn't seem to understand where they were playing so what's the option for Norwood? It's either a 50 yard pass onto a sixpence or a backward or sidewards. I've really not been impressed with the attacking intent of the side for some weeks, we need to be more assertive all over the park.

 

[robbiez666]

Norwood wasn't the problem when we were doing well. But he had a midfielder next to him who would run through the centre.

The problem isn't one midfielder or another it's the fact that they're unsuited to playing with each other.

 

[blade67]

Just seen clip of Utd beating Bradford. What a contrast. Midfielders running at pace down the middle, causing defenders to back track and creating havoc & opportunities. And of course wing backs & overlapping defenders. We don't do that now. Everything is sooo slow and sideways. Hard to break through two sets of defenders with this style. Norwood is central to this. Good player but his & our style of play is to build slowly. It is too predictable. Not explosive or dynamic. Lack athleticism & power down the middle. Fleck apart no box to box midfielders (how many of our midfielders get in front of our forwards?). There are many things wrong with our offensive play, but midfield ain't creating or scoring enough. Been like this for past 3 years. Putting two attack midfielders on the shopping list is surely a must!

And there are plenty of videos you could watch of Norwood pulling the strings whilst united got promoted or finishing top 10 in the premier league.

I'm not blind to Norwood's weaknesses but the facts are that we are much better team when he plays than when he doesn't. As you say, we can replace him, (or even help him) by signing 2 quality midfielders in the Summer, if we can afford it

 

[coolasanidiot]

Every time we have omitted Norwood the teams falls to total rat shit. Friday was not Norwood fault - Houriane the coward and Osborn the headless chicken were the main culprits. But the main problem was Hecky choosing this fire midfield.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Far too simplistic to single an individual out, we are simply playing too safe for my liking. Very difficult for Norwood to play his game when there's no one showing in progressive areas of the pitch. I think the full backs and centre halves need to be willing to find more space and whoever is playing up top needs to offer an easier out-ball. McBurnie was static on Friday and that really hinders us. Osborn and Gibbs-White didn't seem to understand where they were playing so what's the option for Norwood? It's either a 50 yard pass onto a sixpence or a backward or sidewards. I've really not been impressed with the attacking intent of the side for some weeks, we need to be more assertive all over the park.

23 of our 54 league goals came in 6 games. We've scored 5 in the last 7.

We have been a keep it tight/razor thin margins team pretty much since Villa's 3rd went in for the 3-3 under Wilder (we very, very rarely scored 2, never mind more in a game. More importantly we rarely looked a threat to do that, even on our best days in the PL post Xmas 2019). You have to get all the basics perfect to win lots of games like that. Unfortunately we don't

 

[robbiez666]

23 of our 54 league goals came in 6 games. We've scored 5 in the last 7.

We have been a keep it tight/razor thin margins team pretty much since Villa's 3rd went in for the 3-3 under Wilder (we very, very rarely scored 2, never mind more in a game. More importantly we rarely looked a threat to do that, even on our best days in the PL post Xmas 2019). You have to get all the basics perfect to win lots of games like that. Unfortunately we don't

We've be drilled to play as a team in a system for years. That system, as you've said, relies on small margins. Working the system at 100% and taking chances. We were lucky going up and in our first season. Players hit form at the same time and everything worked like clockwork. We had few injuries and JOC aside they were in positions where it wasn't too critical. Still, as players form dropped and a few injuries happened the system as a whole was much less successful. We were increasingly picking up points with fine margins and last season showed precisely where the squad of players probably deserved to be.

This season, Slav tried to change it. To play a different system which relied on creativity and players taking responsibility for changing games and we were bereft. Only MGW and Ndiaye, arguably our two most creative players, looked half-decent.

So, we reverted back to a familiar system and the results speak for themselves. The player were clearly much happier playing that way and we were much more successful. We went back to basics but our basics. Tempo, moving the ball forward quicker, using the flanks etc etc. With the injury crisis the players we've had to use have been less drilled and competent in the position they were in. We've relied on luck or a few big moments to make the difference. We've been fairly unlucky in games with decisions.

It's not going to change unless we have a full reset and they takes years.

It's quite obvious from the reactions this season that are fans aren't prepared to do that.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Norwood wasn't the problem when we were doing well. But he had a midfielder next to him who would run through the centre.

The problem isn't one midfielder or another it's the fact that they're unsuited to playing with each other.

Not just that, at our best under Wilder we regularly only had Egan holding back as we built attacks, all the other tried to take an active part.

Against Reading none of the centre halves managed to contribute much offensively. Norwood was also dropping deep to get on the ball, making it look like we had four centre halves. And Hourihane's role was also one of a holding midfielder.

Here Hourihane is on the ball. Note how he's got five teammates behind him, and ten opposition players in front of him. Creating, let alone scoring looked so hard for us, and that's been a worrying trend of late.



The wing backs are hugging the touch lines, but we know that they are not the types who create chances through individual brilliance. Rarely any overlapping from centre halves and not even support from Berge/Fleck, meant we created little from wide. McBurnie seemed to me to stay centrally more than he does usually. I think we are desperate for him to get a goal and obviously he's had a lot of fitness concerns. I think we hoped something would drop for him if he just stayed near the goal as much as possible.

We hoped the two number tens would help us create, but it was pretty easy for Reading to prevent space for MGW and Osborn. Their early goal allowed them to keep a compact shape defensively, while they were quick and direct when given a chance to break. MGW looked disillusioned as he never got the ball in good situations, while Osborn also struggled in what was a difficult match for him.

We eventually tried a number of changes, but it all looked a bit desperate as we got things wrong from the start and were never really able to recover.

 

[robbiez666]

Not just that, at our best under Wilder we regularly only had Egan holding back as we built attacks, all the other tried to take an active part.

Against Reading none of the centre halves managed to contribute much offensively. Norwood was also dropping deep to get on the ball, making it look like we had four centre halves. And Hourihane's role was also one of a holding midfielder.

Here Hourihane is on the ball. Note how he's got five teammates behind him, and ten opposition players in front of him. Creating, let alone scoring looked so hard for us, and that's been a worrying trend of late.

View attachment 134264

The wing backs are hugging the touch lines, but we know that they are not the types who create chances through individual brilliance. Rarely any overlapping from centre halves and not even support from Berge/Fleck, meant we created little from wide. McBurnie seemed to me to stay centrally more than he does usually. I think we are desperate for him to get a goal and obviously he's had a lot of fitness concerns. I think we hoped something would drop for him if he just stayed near the goal as much as possible.

We hoped the two number tens would help us create, but it was pretty easy for Reading to prevent space for MGW and Osborn. Their early goal allowed them to keep a compact shape defensively, while they were quick and direct when given a chance to break. MGW looked disillusioned as he never got the ball in good situations, while Osborn also struggled in what was a difficult match for him.

We eventually tried a number of changes, but it all looked a bit desperate as we got things wrong from the start and were never really able to recover.

I think we have a general problem with lack of movement upfront. There's never an 'out-ball' without Sharp on the pitch (and there isn't always when he is). McBurnie likes to come deep but no one runs into the space he vacated. MGW tend to hover on a wing after not getting the ball. It just means any ball in has to be something special.

As you say, we played with 3 fairly static CBs and 2 holding midfielders. If the wingbacks aren't playing as winger then it's really difficult to get forward. We rely on a Hollywood ball to one of them which isn't that hard to cut out.

Against Bristol City, assuming McBurnie isn't fit, I'd like us to play Jebbison on his own as a lone striker, as he played for Burton, and MGW and Ndiaye slotting in as attacking midfielders. Free roles when we have the ball but tracking back when we haven't. If nothing else, we should be able to counter quickly.

 

[blademan31]

We'll miss Norwood when he does move on. He's a class player, one of the best in the league, and I think a lot of us will only fully appreciate that when his time is up at BL

 

[Working Class Hero]

Norwood isn't the problem with the slow football, after all we got promoted playing the best football I've ever seen at the Lane with him dictating play.

A lack of overlapping centre backs (amongst other things) is making a massive difference though, to what we are used to seeing. Those wide overloads have disappeared so it just goes in to the corner and then comes backwards again due to a lack of options.

It's worth pointing out though, that this is somewhat normal. What we witnessed before was extraordinary.

 

[Ridgeway Blade]

Our midfield has no real pace and one reason they don't attack the box is that is they did we would be even more vulnerable to a counter attack. We were undone on Friday by two quick passes from the touchline almost in line with their penalty box. The other factor is our reluctance to look for shooting opportunities. It is almost like the the players are on auto pilot to pass sideways or backward. No one seems to have confidence to beat a amn except MGW and he often beats himslef too.

 

[Lane Ender]

We'll miss Norwood when he does move on. He's a class player, one of the best in the league, and I think a lot of us will only fully appreciate that when his time is up at BL

He is a top ranking Championship player great passer of a ball but his contribution and work rate is poor.
Its time for him to move on his time here is finished.

 

[blademan31]

He is a top ranking Championship player great passer of a ball but his contribution and work rate is poor.
Its time for him to move on his time here is finished.

There's plenty in front of him that need to move on first. He gives us stability and makes us tick. I still believe we should build around him for next season with more mobility and power. He reads the game well and intercepts a lot. He often gets mocked for his pointing but a lot of time he's seeing things quicker than his teammates and you need that vocal leadership in the middle, someone telling players when to press/hold.

I'm curious to know why you think his time is done here?

 

[Lane Ender]

There's plenty in front of him that need to move on first. He gives us stability and makes us tick. I still believe we should build around him for next season with more mobility and power. He reads the game well and intercepts a lot. He often gets mocked for his pointing but a lot of time he's seeing things quicker than his teammates and you need that vocal leadership in the middle, someone telling players when to press/hold.

I'm curious to know why you think his time is done here?

It’s just that familiarity thing don’t think the hunger is there time to move on for his own sake and ours but saying that he’ll see out his contract same as Fleck and Stevens

 

[blademan31]

It’s just that familiarity thing don’t think the hunger is there time to move on for his own sake and ours but saying that he’ll see out his contract same as Fleck and Stevens

Yeah there's definitely a fair few that need to move on for that reason. But you're right, hard to see any of those players moving on before the end of their contracts, as their next contract, wherever it is, will be for much less £££

 

[Jan Age]

Norwood also part of the problem

 

[Boxer Blade]

Norwoods passing against Reading in the first half was generally excellent, the odd thing was when he had that chance from around 20 yards out it was perfect for him and yet he blazed it over, why didn't he ping it like a pass? it would have been a lot closer.

 

[Wapping Blade]

Norwoods passing against Reading in the first half was generally excellent, the odd thing was when he had that chance from around 20 yards out it was perfect for him and yet he blazed it over, why didn't he ping it like a pass? it would have been a lot closer.

He did one amazing pass to Furious in the first half that created the space we were craving (and lacking) against their block. Suffice it to say that a) we didn’t capitalise and b) didn’t do it again.

 

[metalblade]

Back to Wilderball no one in the middle to pass to, no movement up front so it was pings out to the wing backs who were quickly closed down by two defenders forcing them to pass back to the centre backs rinse and repeat on the other flank or until someone lost the ball. It might help if we had some players out wide who are willing to take on a defender as soon as they get the ball.

 

[Paisley Blade]

We'll miss Norwood when he does move on. He's a class player, one of the best in the league, and I think a lot of us will only fully appreciate that when his time is up at BL

He's the best passer we've had since Currie. Currie, for the most part, was surrounded by excellent players. Norwood isn't.

Some of the balls he played on Saturday, especially to Baldock, we're delightful. The fact it breaks down isn't Norwood's fault.

Norwood isn't suddenly going to become athletic or dominate opponents. He never is/was that player. He can pass the fucker though.

 

[pommpey]

We'll miss Norwood when he does move on. He's a class player, one of the best in the league, and I think a lot of us will only fully appreciate that when his time is up at BL

What, exactly will we miss?

Does he score goals? Does he beat players? Does he carry the ball up the pitch? Is he a box to box midfielder? Is he good at crossing, from open and set pieces? Can he hit at goal from all angles? Does he get 'stuck in' to the tackle? Can he track and mark opposition players? Is he positionally adept?

These are all the things in the shopping bag of a midfielder in varying measures. Norwood has fuck all of any. All he does, is pick the ball up and lump it out to the wingbacks. Now if that's what you call 'class', I have no idea what you possibly made of Michael Brown.

pommpey

 

[metalblade]

What, exactly will we miss?

Does he score goals? Does he beat players? Does he carry the ball up the pitch? Is he a box to box midfielder? Is he good at crossing, from open and set pieces? Can he hit at goal from all angles? Does he get 'stuck in' to the tackle? Can he track and mark opposition players? Is he positionally adept?

These are all the things in the shopping bag of a midfielder in varying measures. Norwood has fuck all of any. All he does, is pick the ball up and lump it out to the wingbacks. Now if that's what you call 'class', I have no idea what you possibly made of Michael Brown.

pommpey

He's a bit like an American quarter back stands there gets the ball and sprays it out wide. Sadly this isn't American football, the game does not reset when another player receives a 30-40 yard pass, no touch down is scored and we don't get four more downs to get to the goal line. What else has he got in the locker? that would be nothing much.

 

[bertieblade]

Norwood is more effective when he has time on the ball.
to achieve this and give himself time he takes the easy option and goes deep to collect the ball from the centre halves, which not only slows things down but reduces his ability to find forward players.
if he played further forward as he used to and try to dictate play from the centre circle, he and we would be more effective.

not sure if he us told to play so deep or just chooses the easiest option, which I do admit is not as easy as it could be as Bergen has explained he has few runners ahead of him, but whatever the reason we need to dictate play In their half anyone can exchange passes with the centre halves all match. Surely the defenders should be capable of doing that, to create a pass to him in the centre circle, other teams do it.

 

[blademan31]

He's the best passer we've had since Currie. Currie, for the most part, was surrounded by excellent players. Norwood isn't.

Some of the balls he played on Saturday, especially to Baldock, we're delightful. The fact it breaks down isn't Norwood's fault.

Norwood isn't suddenly going to become athletic or dominate opponents. He never is/was that player. He can pass the fucker though.

Yeah you're right, if those two balls in the first half are to Bogle not Baldock it's a different story.