Norwood Again

[Keen Blade]

Surely Mcshitty is scapegoat number one?
Followed by Lundstram, then Ramsdale, then perhaps Lowe, Berg, Stevens then Norwood. Then Baldock, Fleck, Bryan (straight into the charts) , Ampadu, Burke, Moose, Brewster, Egan, Bash.

That's just my take anyway, based on what I have seen in terms specific threads and general Shoutbox rants. Perhaps one of the stato's has a spreadsheet?

McB is more of an escaped goat than a scapegoat.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

Norwood in our midfield

 

[ucandomagic]

Accidental duplicate deleted.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

See Kalvin Fillips was/is doing a great job of impersonating Norwood and his ping in the little kameo on MOTD last nite.

 

[JackSUFC]

View attachment 99213

Bit harsh. Unlike Egan, Bryan did realise our backline was too high up, so tried to drop deeper. The ball over the top was excellent, Bryan tried to get his head on it, but it floated just above him, which meant Grant ran onto it. Bryan showed some pace to catch up with Grant and block his finish though.

Like I said, not bothered watching the replay. In real time it looked like he got caught under the flight of the ball far too easily.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I don't think the goal was Norwood's fault, but he had a really poor game again. We need much better in that position.

 

[oohaah]

View attachment 99213

Bit harsh. Unlike Egan, Bryan did realise our backline was too high up, so tried to drop deeper. The ball over the top was excellent, Bryan tried to get his head on it, but it floated just above him, which meant Grant ran onto it. Bryan showed some pace to catch up with Grant and block his finish though.

Even more annoying for me was that before the long ball was played by West Brom we seemed to be in a good attacking position on the right hand side. Then I think McBurnie and someone else (Bash?) managed to collide with each other under no pressure and 30 seconds later we are a goal behind. Terrible passage of play with at least 5 mistakes by our lot.

 

[Barney]

Yep and then they had another corner shortly after with, you guessed it, another unmarked man lingering in that same area.

 

[blademark]

Can I blame Simon Cowell for the goal then?!

Bill Gates all day long !

 

[DaleHillBlade]

Well if this isn’t evidence of Norwood being scapegoat number 1 then I’ve no idea what is...

The answer is Ramsdale, a keeper getting pelters while standing behind a seemingly clueless defence.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I’ve read all the above, and it’s all about opinions.

In my book, your deep midfield player has to own the area around the D and block anybody who runs into it. It’s not about whose man it was.

It was from a corner. Seeing as Wilder apportioned the blame without mentioning Norwood it’s safe to assume that a) Norwood had other duties and b) your dislike of him skews a basic knowledge of football.

 

[Auld Reekie Blade]

My two pennies’ worth is, for the goal, Berge is at fault because of an extremely poor ‘clearance’. If he puts it in the stand it stays 0-0.

Our strikers are at fault for the result because, at present, none of them could hit a cow’s arse with a banjo.

 

[bakeblade]

I’ve never been a fan. His inability to get back to defend is a huge issue, he slows the game down and his Hollywood Ping was never going to work the same in the PL.
Watching him makes me feel sad about Coutts injury and the chances it may have cost him.

Oh come on, he's been great for us and a big reason for our success over the last few seasons. However it looks like the Premier league is too much him

 

[bladesince64]

That Gallagher was some player. He was everywhere, closing down and breaking up our passing. Wasn't afraid to get stuck in as well. Left his foot in a little bit here and there and really ran their midfield.
Had a couple of shots?
He reminded me of John Swift who I think we were trying to sign till he got injured.
Ran rings round out midfield.
On loan from Chelsea so will have been on other clubs radar but not ours seemingly.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Oh come on, he's been great for us and a big reason for our success over the last few seasons. However it looks like the Premier league is too much him

In front of a great defence when on point. As soon as he has to do the hard work he can’t get back and gets bullied in this league. The league is clearly to much for him but he’s getting picked. He slows the game down -he’s not alone in that - and can’t create anymore.

 

[Bergen Blade]

That Gallagher was some player. He was everywhere, closing down and breaking up our passing. Wasn't afraid to get stuck in as well. Left his foot in a little bit here and there and really ran their midfield.
Had a couple of shots?
He reminded me of John Swift who I think we were trying to sign till he got injured.
Ran rings round out midfield.
On loan from Chelsea so will have been on other clubs radar but not ours seemingly.

We couldn't go for him (on loan) as well as Ampadu though.

 

[pommpey]

Oh come on, he's been great for us and a big reason for our success over the last few seasons. However it looks like the Premier league is too much him

He's been great for us, since when?

Admittedly, he was a good acquisition for us when Coutts's rehabilitation was more protracted and we'd brought Lundstram in, who wasn't Coutts. We needed a anchor in the centre of midfield, but even then, we were playing with Duffy slightly in front and willing to carry and run and provide support for the attack.

Norwood now is completely misplaced, in fact without a 3-5-2 formation where he can interface with proper wingbacks (which to the left of him he has nothing and only infrequently he had Baldock to the right) he seems unable to impose. This is down to his inherent lack of ability at this level. As said, transfer him to Stoke, Reading, Swansea City and he would be pretty effective. At this level not at all. His opposition and the challenge is simply too much for him.

Elon Musk makes great noises about 'analogy' and 'first principles'. If we base our progress on what we always knew and what other people did (analogy) - like for example what Sheffield United were like last season or in the Championship or before that even, then we shouldn't be surprised if progress and competition catches up and overtakes us. If however we break our problems down to first principles, - i.e where the problems actually are and how we can incrementally improve them to alter the final output, we will progress. We have to stop being attached to the promotion feeling of euphoria. It's gone now. See also last season's galactic achievements before the lockdown. We have defects built into our machine now, and it's stalling almost to a stop. We have a crisis. Doing what we always did because it felt good and will miraculously fix itself (whilst shipping avoidable goals and failing to capitalise on chances or even create them anyway) is a recipe for disaster.

We should never fear or reject change. We hope Wilder changes stuff before change affects him at Bramall Lane.

pommpey

 

[Charlieblade]

I echo much of what pommpey has said, and I would add that we cannot look at our high standards of last season, and compare the sides we meet in the same way.
Chelsea for example were rebuilding last year and are a much better side this time around. Man United continue to improve, and Aston Villa seem to have spent a load of dosh again, but found a half decent side.
Even the lesser teams are performing better, with promoted teams riding a bit of a success wave. West Brom are flawed, but they are better than Norwich.
Southampton are an object lesson in keeping faith with a decent manager, despite some very bad results last season.
Overall it is a markedly different league to last season. We need to stay grounded and keep the faith.
A poster said, “it’s obvious we need a LCB (agreed) and a striker”? We have an embarrassment of riches in our current strike force. It’s a very broad mix of old hands and youthful potential. No one dismisses Didsy due to his age and his football brains. I am more forgiving of McBurnie’s contribution, because of his work rate and all round contribution to the game, and he’s still young enough to improve.
Our awful start is due to more than just a lack of goals, but some players are trying too hard to fill gaps caused by the fact that we don’t have shoe in back up players for every position.
Ampadu is a fine young player, but I’m convinced we would get much more from him if he could tie down a regular starting slot, instead of being a sticking plaster for injuries and lost form, or other deficiencies.
The more I see of Berge playing on the right of midfield, the more I see him enjoying the role, and Lundstram will probably only be around until January. A midfield of Berge, Ampadu and Fleck looks like it might work well for the team, and the individuals.
Osborn makes up for his lack of talent at this level by his industry and willingness. He also has some utility value. I don’t believe Stevens has become a worse player over time. Again he suffers because of his versatility as an attack minded defender. He needs a good run at full back.
Last season we got away with a high level of stability in the side, and players got more secure knowing regular partnerships were both possible and productive.
Injuries, loss of form and no crowds have all disrupted our fluid style based on that stability we enjoyed for most of last season.
Ramsdale. Baldock, Basham, Egan, Robinson, Stevens
Berge Ampadu Fleck.
Strikers, any two to start with two on the bench, based on what CWAK have seen in training this week.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

I don't think the goal was Norwood's fault, but he had a really poor game again. We need much better in that position.

That may well be the case , but there is no evidence that we have someone who is at present .

When Berge played twice in that role , which many said was his true position and in which he would prove to be outstanding , he gave us his usual 15 minutes of looking like a top player and 75 minutes looking like a lost soul .

When Ampadu played two games there , he did quite well at Liverpool but was awful against City to the extent of going into full Jamie Hoyland clapping , pointing and back pedalling mode .

Ollie Norwood may not be in the form which gained him massive admiration from fans and pundits in our first PL season but he never shirks his duties and always shows for the ball , a great asset for defenders looking for an out ball and not wanting to simply smash it .

 

[Keen Blade]

I echo much of what pommpey has said, and I would add that we cannot look at our high standards of last season, and compare the sides we meet in the same way.
Chelsea for example were rebuilding last year and are a much better side this time around. Man United continue to improve, and Aston Villa seem to have spent a load of dosh again, but found a half decent side.
Even the lesser teams are performing better, with promoted teams riding a bit of a success wave. West Brom are flawed, but they are better than Norwich.
Southampton are an object lesson in keeping faith with a decent manager, despite some very bad results last season.
Overall it is a markedly different league to last season. We need to stay grounded and keep the faith.
A poster said, “it’s obvious we need a LCB (agreed) and a striker”? We have an embarrassment of riches in our current strike force. It’s a very broad mix of old hands and youthful potential. No one dismisses Didsy due to his age and his football brains. I am more forgiving of McBurnie’s contribution, because of his work rate and all round contribution to the game, and he’s still young enough to improve.
Our awful start is due to more than just a lack of goals, but some players are trying too hard to fill gaps caused by the fact that we don’t have shoe in back up players for every position.
Ampadu is a fine young player, but I’m convinced we would get much more from him if he could tie down a regular starting slot, instead of being a sticking plaster for injuries and lost form, or other deficiencies.
The more I see of Berge playing on the right of midfield, the more I see him enjoying the role, and Lundstram will probably only be around until January. A midfield of Berge, Ampadu and Fleck looks like it might work well for the team, and the individuals.
Osborn makes up for his lack of talent at this level by his industry and willingness. He also has some utility value. I don’t believe Stevens has become a worse player over time. Again he suffers because of his versatility as an attack minded defender. He needs a good run at full back.
Last season we got away with a high level of stability in the side, and players got more secure knowing regular partnerships were both possible and productive.
Injuries, loss of form and no crowds have all disrupted our fluid style based on that stability we enjoyed for most of last season.
Ramsdale. Baldock, Basham, Egan, Robinson, Stevens
Berge Ampadu Fleck.
Strikers, any two to start with two on the bench, based on what CWAK have seen in training this week.

I am bored with hearing that at 24 McB can improve - he's had 15 months FFS.
It's unfair to expect him to overcome his natural deficiencies.
He's gangly , unco-irdinated & weak. Compare his physique to most of the CBs he faces. He's quite slender + lacks both leg & upper body strength. Consequently he loses the physical battle + tends to foul his man.
He's got a weird running style which makes him slow.
He's flat footed + often caught on his heels when a cross comes in.
His heading & shooting is neither powerful nor accurate , lacks conviction + so often hits the goalie.
He's not a target man , nor a tussle-winner nor an instinctive finisher.
He often ends up on the floor which suggests a lack of balance.
Then there is all his moaning at refs , which does us & him no favours in games.
Some scout must have thought he had the attributes to make a PL striker but I confess I don't know what they were.
In contrast , I can see Brewster developing. Despite a quiet introduction , you can see that , at 20 , he has some speed of movement & thought , some strength , some balance & purpose. Yes it was a lot of money for mere potential , but in my view he has attributes + no obvious deficiencies.
I would start Brewster every week + get him into a partnership with Burke.
If any kind of offer came in for McB , I would move him on.

 

[Charlieblade]

I am bored with hearing that at 24 McB can improve - he's had 15 months FFS.
It's unfair to expect him to overcome his natural deficiencies.
He's gangly , unco-irdinated & weak. Compare his physique to most of the CBs he faces. He's quite slender + lacks both leg & upper body strength. Consequently he loses the physical battle + tends to foul his man.
He's got a weird running style which makes him slow.
He's flat footed + often caught on his heels when a cross comes in.
His heading & shooting is neither powerful nor accurate , lacks conviction + so often hits the goalie.
He's not a target man , nor a tussle-winner nor an instinctive finisher.
He often ends up on the floor which suggests a lack of balance.
Then there is all his moaning at refs , which does us & him no favours in games.
Some scout must have thought he had the attributes to make a PL striker but I confess I don't know what they were.
In contrast , I can see Brewster developing. Despite a quiet introduction , you can see that , at 20 , he has some speed of movement & thought , some strength , some balance & purpose. Yes it was a lot of money for mere potential , but in my view he has attributes + no obvious deficiencies.
I would start Brewster every week + get him into a partnership with Burke.
If any kind of offer came in for McB , I would move him on.

Apart from McBurnie, you agree with me then?

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

The goal was nothing to do with Norwood. Sometimes though, when things are going bad, people blame the ones they don't like

I blame my wife

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

I blame my wife

If that's her in your avatar, you'd better keep quiet about blaming her, unless she reads the forum.

I which case, RIP Pittsburg Blade

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

I am bored with hearing that at 24 McB can improve - he's had 15 months FFS.
It's unfair to expect him to overcome his natural deficiencies.
He's gangly , unco-irdinated & weak. Compare his physique to most of the CBs he faces. He's quite slender + lacks both leg & upper body strength. Consequently he loses the physical battle + tends to foul his man.
He's got a weird running style which makes him slow.
He's flat footed + often caught on his heels when a cross comes in.
His heading & shooting is neither powerful nor accurate , lacks conviction + so often hits the goalie.
He's not a target man , nor a tussle-winner nor an instinctive finisher.
He often ends up on the floor which suggests a lack of balance.
Then there is all his moaning at refs , which does us & him no favours in games.
Some scout must have thought he had the attributes to make a PL striker but I confess I don't know what they were.
In contrast , I can see Brewster developing. Despite a quiet introduction , you can see that , at 20 , he has some speed of movement & thought , some strength , some balance & purpose. Yes it was a lot of money for mere potential , but in my view he has attributes + no obvious deficiencies.
I would start Brewster every week + get him into a partnership with Burke.
If any kind of offer came in for McB , I would move him on.

I don't think he's as good as you make out.

 

[petcharlie]

My two pennies’ worth is, for the goal, Berge is at fault because of an extremely poor ‘clearance’. If he puts it in the stand it stays 0-0.

Our strikers are at fault for the result because, at present, none of them could hit a cow’s arse with a banjo.

Could not agree more.Apart from the Chelsea game our defence has been acceptable if not perfect ,it is our goal scoring that is the problem.If we let just one in it is game set and match because we know we will not equalise or even score a winner.My God can you remember when we came from behind to win a match? Seems so long ago.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

I am bored with hearing that at 24 McB can improve - he's had 15 months FFS.
It's unfair to expect him to overcome his natural deficiencies.
He's gangly , unco-irdinated & weak. Compare his physique to most of the CBs he faces. He's quite slender + lacks both leg & upper body strength. Consequently he loses the physical battle + tends to foul his man.
He's got a weird running style which makes him slow.
He's flat footed + often caught on his heels when a cross comes in.
His heading & shooting is neither powerful nor accurate , lacks conviction + so often hits the goalie.
He's not a target man , nor a tussle-winner nor an instinctive finisher.
He often ends up on the floor which suggests a lack of balance.
Then there is all his moaning at refs , which does us & him no favours in games.
Some scout must have thought he had the attributes to make a PL striker but I confess I don't know what they were.
In contrast , I can see Brewster developing. Despite a quiet introduction , you can see that , at 20 , he has some speed of movement & thought , some strength , some balance & purpose. Yes it was a lot of money for mere potential , but in my view he has attributes + no obvious deficiencies.
I would start Brewster every week + get him into a partnership with Burke.
If any kind of offer came in for McB , I would move him on.

I've said it before, but McBurnie has all the attributes of Andy Carroll, but without the scoring ability!

 

[ancientblade]

I am bored with hearing that at 24 McB can improve - he's had 15 months FFS.
It's unfair to expect him to overcome his natural deficiencies.
He's gangly , unco-irdinated & weak. Compare his physique to most of the CBs he faces. He's quite slender + lacks both leg & upper body strength. Consequently he loses the physical battle + tends to foul his man.
He's got a weird running style which makes him slow.
He's flat footed + often caught on his heels when a cross comes in.
His heading & shooting is neither powerful nor accurate , lacks conviction + so often hits the goalie.
He's not a target man , nor a tussle-winner nor an instinctive finisher.
He often ends up on the floor which suggests a lack of balance.
Then there is all his moaning at refs , which does us & him no favours in games.
Some scout must have thought he had the attributes to make a PL striker but I confess I don't know what they were.
In contrast , I can see Brewster developing. Despite a quiet introduction , you can see that , at 20 , he has some speed of movement & thought , some strength , some balance & purpose. Yes it was a lot of money for mere potential , but in my view he has attributes + no obvious deficiencies.
I would start Brewster every week + get him into a partnership with Burke.
If any kind of offer came in for McB , I would move him on.

agree 100% brewster and burke up top for me as well i gave up on mcburnie months ago he just isnt gonna do it at this level and suspect chris knows as well mousset will never last 90mins so have him on the bench with billy and also agree on the midfield 3 think ampadu needs to be given a run in the defensive midfielder role and i would also like to see ben osborn given a chance at lwb

 

[Working Class Hero]

In front of a great defence when on point. As soon as he has to do the hard work he can’t get back and gets bullied in this league. The league is clearly to much for him but he’s getting picked. He slows the game down -he’s not alone in that - and can’t create anymore.

All fair points but I'm not sure about the slowing the game down part. He's the only player who ever passes forward with any sort of tempo (apart from the defenders' 70-yard launches to McBurnie's head), that's not been happening lately though due to the wing backs and centre backs getting forward much less, but that's not Norwood's fault.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

All fair points but I'm not sure about the slowing the game down part. He's the only player who ever passes forward with any sort of tempo (apart from the defenders' 70-yard launches to McBurnie's head), that's not been happening lately though due to the wing backs and centre backs getting forward much less, but that's not Norwood's fault.

The worse culprit for slowing the game down is McGoldrick with his constant 'pass back' routine!
I've been pissed off with him so many times with turning an attack into a back pass all the way back to Ramsdale!!!!

 

[Chabuddy G]

Second game in a row we concede through an uncontested shot in the middle of the goal from near the edge of the box. That is the area your deep midfielder guards with his life. Trevor Hockey wasn’t a great footballer but we wouldn’t have lost either of the last 2 with him in the side.

We definitely would've, he's been dead 23 years