NO FOR CLOUGH/YES FOR PULIS

[Pinchy]

Passing is the fundamental of football.

Movement, pace and finishing wins you games

Agreed. Passing with purpose sums up the philosophy of the best football teams. That said, the slow passing across the back and midfield does, when practised by quality players, have a purpose. It starves the other team of possession; enables players to get forward in numbers and sets the scene for the essential step-up in tempo when going for goal.

Would you like to come train-spotting with me next week-end? We could share a glass of Chateau Lafite (just the one, though).

 

[BladeFisher]

I would be interested if you can guess who said the following (though you may already have read it).

If Weir had employed this. He might still be in a job at SUFC.

"I’ve taken over at a lot of clubs and I don’t change things drastically until I’ve had a good look at what I’ve got. I go in with an open mind, no preconceived ideas, and once I’ve studied the players I decide how best to use them. I remember at xxxxxxxxx three of the best players in the club were centre-halves, so I played them all and told the full-backs to bomb on. At xxxxxxx I inherited xxxxxxxxx, who was a superb passing midfielder but was a veteran who found it harder to get around the pitch. I used to play him in front of the back two where he could use his passing – and sometimes behind them as a sweeper. In my first training session at xxxxxxxxxx I realised I had a lazy genius in xxxxxxx, so I built a team around him that provided a platform for his ability when we had the ball, and covered up for his absence when we didn’t.

I think most managers follow the same policy of having a look, then working out how best to use what they have. Then there’s Pep Guardiola. He’s just taken over a team that won the Champions League in style, the German league breaking records, and the German cup. And it looks as if he has gone in and said: “This is my system, this is how you will play.” And it has worked, because Bayern Munich were frighteningly good when sweeping Manchester City away on Wednesday night. I suppose when you have top-class players it is far easier to introduce a system because they only need telling once, twice at the most.

 

[puppet]

It's no coincidence that Stoke's rise coincided with the boom in internet gambling. (for those who don't know, the chairman runs Bet365)

So credit to Pulis, but he was respectably well funded. His brutal footballing style isn't a silver bullet.

I wouldnt call online gambling billionaires respectably funded

 

[alcoblade]

I would be interested if you can guess who said the following (though you may already have read it).

If Weir had employed this. He might still be in a job at SUFC.

"I’ve taken over at a lot of clubs and I don’t change things drastically until I’ve h

ad a good look at what I’ve got. I go in with an open mind, no preconceived ideas, and once I’ve studied the players I decide how best to use them. I remember at xxxxxxxxx three of the best players in the club were centre-halves, so I played them all and told the full-backs to bomb on. At xxxxxxx I inherited xxxxxxxxx, who was a superb passing midfielder but was a veteran who found it harder to get around the pitch. I used to play him in front of the back two where he could use his passing – and sometimes behind them as a sweeper. In my first training session at xxxxxxxxxx I realised I had a lazy genius in xxxxxxx, so I built a team around him that provided a platform for his ability when we had the ball, and covered up for his absence when we didn’t.

I think most managers follow the same policy of having a look, then working out how best to use what they have. Then there’s Pep Guardiola. He’s just taken over a team that won the Champions League in style, the German league breaking records, and the German cup. And it looks as if he has gone in and said: “This is my system, this is how you will play.” And it has worked, because Bayern Munich were frighteningly good when sweeping Manchester City away on Wednesday night. I suppose when you have top-class players it is far easier to introduce a system because they only need telling once, twice at the most.

Amen.

And I predict the first model delivered 7 promotions, albeit without the correct ethos?



UTB

 

[JohnDenver]

I wouldnt call online gambling billionaires respectably funded

I'm saying he had a respectable amount of funding to help him succeed, not that the source of the funding was respectable.

Bet365, Ray Winstone and his Gibraltar-based mates can all fook off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BladeFisher]

Amen.

And I predict the first model delivered 7 promotions, albeit without the correct ethos?



UTB

I think you may have got the correct manager there Alco.

 

[Pinchy]

Has he proved himself hopelessly out of his depth at the top level?

 

[puppet]

I'm saying he had a respectable amount of funding to help him succeed, not that the source of the funding was respectable.

Bet365, Ray Winstone and his Gibraltar-based mates can all fook off as far as I'm concerned.

I knew you didnt actually mean that, just thought id say it all the same

 

[Racy]

Agreed. Passing with purpose sums up the philosophy of the best football teams. That said, the slow passing across the back and midfield does, when practised by quality players, have a purpose. It starves the other team of possession; enables players to get forward in numbers and sets the scene for the essential step-up in tempo when going for goal.

Would you like to come train-spotting with me next week-end? We could share a glass of Chateau Lafite (just the one, though).

Don't want to discuss my tax affairs though on our day out

 

[JohnDenver]

Amen.

And I predict the first model delivered 7 promotions, albeit without the correct ethos?



UTB

Any sensible manager takes the first method. But he will always have a longer-term plan which involves his own players and preferred style. It's just a matter of how much time it takes to get there, and he should make do in the short term. Which is all the more reason to remain consistent with managerial appointments at a club, rather than allow each new manager to set a whole new course.

Even Guardiola's Munich, full of world class players, are not simply a Barca clone after one transfer window.

The underlying point is two-fold:

1, Consistency of strategy at the club is the way to go.
2, Percentage football is no guarantee of success, so why make that the strategy?

All the short term stuff is up for grabs.

 

[alcoblade]

Has he proved himself hopelessly out of his depth at the top level?

Aye, let's stick to the pertinent facts. After all, our model's the same as Real Madrid's. It's what the top teams do. If only 4th division Hartlepool got with the same plan on Tuesday.

UTB

 

[BladeFisher]

Has he proved himself hopelessly out of his depth at the top level?

Shall we get there first Pinchy and worry about the Prem when we've got a realistic chance of reaching it? At the moment we are nearer the Conference Premier rather than the Premier League.

The point of the post is that the particular manager in question assesses what he's got first before changing. I think Phipps is expecting that kind of approach in the next managerial appointment.

 

[alcoblade]

Any sensible manager takes the first method. But he will always have a longer-term plan which involves his own players and preferred style. It's just a matter of how much time it takes to get there, and he should make do in the short term. Which is all the more reason to remain consistent with managerial appointments at a club, rather than allow each new manager to set a whole new course.

Even Guardiola's Munich, full of world class players, are not simply a Barca clone after one transfer window.

The underlying point is two-fold:

1, Consistency of strategy at the club is the way to go.
2, Percentage football is no guarantee of success, so why make that the strategy?

All the short term stuff is up for grabs.

Good post. But with a chink. Consistency of strategy is great in principle, until you realise that the strategy as it stands isn't suitable.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

The point of the post is that the particular manager in question assesses what he's got first before changing. I think Phipps is expecting that kind of approach in the next managerial appointment.

Yep, to be fair Phipps, like most people, can see a glaringly obvious flaw and fix it. Some look hard enough to find a point in time when even Real Madrid had a glaringly obvious flaw, so replicate it.

UTB

 

[JohnDenver]

Good post. But with a chink. Consistency of strategy is great in principle, until you realise that the strategy as it stands isn't suitable.

UTB

You say unsuitable. I say badly implemented.

 

[alcoblade]

You say unsuitable. I say badly implemented.

I think we probably disagree on far less than it seems John. I think there are about 10 managers in history, none of which I want or are likely to come, that define a strategy that is the polar opposite of what the club would like to achieve.

There is so much room for manoeuvre, with so many managers in between who could be consistent with our strategy.

If, and I doubt it, that strategy included anything along the lines of that demonstrated by Weir, we're in trouble and you can count me out.

UTB

 

[JohnDenver]

I think we probably disagree on far less than it seems John. I think there are about 10 managers in history, none of which I want or are likely to come, that define a strategy that is the polar opposite of what the club would like to achieve.

There is so much room for manoeuvre, with so many managers in between who could be consistent with our strategy.

If, and I doubt it, that strategy included anything along the lines of that demonstrated by Weir, we're in trouble and you can count me out.

UTB

Quite probably. But at least the club has a strategy now. It certainly hasn't had one since it allowed Warnock to have free reign for seven years. Something that could only be deemed strategic by default.

As for Weir, he simply failed. Not much else to say. Next please!

 

[Pinchy]

Good post. But with a chink. Consistency of strategy is great in principle, until you realise that the strategy as it stands isn't suitable.

UTB

You advocate a haphazard, inconsistent strategy?

 

[alcoblade]

Quite probably. But at least the club has a strategy now. It certainly hasn't had one since it allowed Warnock to have free reign for seven years. Something that could only be deemed strategic by default.

As for Weir, he simply failed. Not much else to say. Next please!

There are many periods yin our history you could have picked on. Choosing Warnock's (inspite of his more direct approach), when we trebled attendances and delivered the only exciting times my children can remember, seems a strange one.

We're probably miles apart.

UTB

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

I think Pulis would be a decent choice. Would rather have Cox or Slade (Noddy Holder and the lot), but Pulis would be a safe enough choice. Really don't fancy Clough one bit. As for the style of play, i couldn't care less.

 

[Pinchy]

You say unsuitable. I say badly implemented.

Precisely. You can own a top of the range Mercedes but if you drive it badly enough you'll end up crashing! It doesn't make Mercedes a bad car.

 

[alcoblade]

You advocate a haphazard, inconsistent strategy?

If it's the shite we just served up, then yes.

Buy young players with promise and resale value / ability to move on when required. Play to your strengths in the short to medium term until you have what you require. Up tempo, controlled football, less percentage, more deliberate. But be prepared to mix it up.

It's nothing more than a vote for common sense.

Defining ourselves by formation, our rigid philosophy, is neither required or sensible. I suspect it will deliver Nigel Clough with far better candidates out there. It will be an aim for style over content again.

UTB

 

[Trigger Blade]

I wouldnt call online gambling billionaires respectably funded

I very much doubt that Coates and his family are anywhere close to being billionaires, though they're very wealthy people (as an aside, it's Coates's daughter who is credited with the move into online betting, while her Dad ran a few betting shops and Stadia Catering).

As for Pulis, he'd already had a very indifferent spell at Stoke which ended when new Icelandic owners arrived. When Coates brought him back a few years later, it was an unpopular move. In fact, even in the season they went up, there were red card protests at home games aimed at getting him out. It all went quiet after that, although some if the football they've played since has been excruciating to watch.

He certainly wasn't an instant miracle worker and anybody who paid Mama Sidibe for about six years has at least one blind spot

 

[Guesty]

How about the 49ers coach?

Jim Harbaugh would settle well into English management actually, he recently blamed a 49ers loss on the crowd being too noisy, a move straight out of the Dave Jones/ Mark Hughes handbook.

We'd do better with his brother, John, however.

 

[sheffielder]

Jim Harbaugh would settle well into English management actually, he recently blamed a 49ers loss on the crowd being too noisy, a move straight out of the Dave Jones/ Mark Hughes handbook.

We'd do better with his brother, John, however.

Very true, Jim is a baby and between them and the PeDs Seahawks it makes for an awful division, however fun to watch.

If I had to chose an NFL coach to go with I would probably chose Mike Tomlin, class act even though I hate the Steelers and their terrible towels!

 

[Hodgyman]

Has everyone forgotten Stuart McCall?
He turned us down when we were skint, offered peanuts, a cut in player budgets etc. In my view a wise move.

Perhaps now that we are better off we can afford him and his expectations.

He had a major influence in the quality of play that saw us promoted to the Premiership and a couple of semi finals in (real) cup competitions. With his coaching we saw a far better style than the Warnock hoof. He now has a few seasons in management under his belt and hasn't done at all bad at Motherwell.

It is really important that we choose the right man for the job this time or we will waste the new money at our disposal just like Robson did.. It would be false economy to go for a "cheaper" managerial option

Footnote. The first question in an interview for the manager's job should be " Would you keep Michael Doyle as a captain or even as a player". If the answer is "Yes", look at the next candidate on the list.

 

[Silent Blade]

The irony of all this is when a top side, which normally plays 'good' passing football on the floor, goes a goal down with just a few minutes to play they often start to play it long in a desperate attempt to grab a goal. If that's the way to score goals, why don't they do it in the first place?

This is very, very true. I remember Pirlo playing long passes to Balotelli in the last European Championships. Germany play the same with a lot of success. Winning football is good football

 

[MBoreman]

Totally agree. One step at a time, leave the pretty football for when we are in the premier league. It's about getting there first and to do that we need wins.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense to drastically change your style when you reach the highest level meaning you have to invest loads. Why does no one in this club have any patience?

 

[Silent Blade]

Because they become desperate. How often do they actually score? Top of the table Arsenal don't do it, by the way. They keep playing football.

If you have 90 minutes to bake a cake you'll make a far better one than if you have five minutes. If, however, you are only allowed five minutes you will cut out the frills and stick to the most basic of ingredients. You will also turn up your oven and use fewer utensils. You will end up, though, with a pretty poor quality cake and you won't win the bake-off.

Football - there's a clue in the name of the game.

Football isnt the same as baking a cake! You are talking bonkers. Your idea of football is the same as 5 a side football rules!

 

[Pinchy]

Football isnt the same as baking a cake! You are talking bonkers. Your idea of football is the same as 5 a side football rules!

And yours is prehistoric drivel that the rest of the football world abandoned 20 years ago.

Please stop trying to claim that the long passing of quality teams is in any way related to the alehouse. aimless, airborne punts that characterise your beloved Hoofball.