New view of Lane re-development

[Sheffsteel]

Emirates cost nearly £0.5 billion when you factor in cost of the surrounding infrastructure.

To extend the kop would cost about £5m and takes about a year to build. A new kop would cost about £20m and take possibly 2-3 years with the environmental considerations. A new kop, although bigger in size, would have bigger seat spacing, wider access gangways and exit points, all in compliance with contemporary H&S legislation. The net gain in seats would be approximately zero as a result. You do the maths.

The maths is if a totally new stand cost 20m, with no increase in capacity, plus also millions lost due to the total closure of the Kop for a season or two but maybe replaced with a small temporary stand.

My maths says admission prices on the Kop would need increasing from the current £25 a match to maybe £50 a match.
Even then with no increase in capacity it would take several decades to get the investment back.
Imagine coming up this investment idea on Dragons Den.

 

[blade too long]

The Emirates was built on land occupied by a waste recycling plant and an industrial estate. Not a gas and chemical plant.

They removed a gas tank and waste disposal is as bad

 

[snootyfenooty]

The maths is if a totally new stand cost 20m, with no increase in capacity, plus also millions lost due to the total closure of the Kop for a season or two but maybe replaced with a small temporary stand.

My maths says admission prices on the Kop would need increasing from the current £25 a match to maybe £50 a match.
Even then with no increase in capacity it would take several decades to get the investment back.
Imagine coming up this investment idea on Dragons Den.

And on the other side of the coin, a simple extension to the kop costing £5m would result in 3500 extra seats and pay for itself in a few years.

 

[blade too long]

The maths is if a totally new stand cost 20m, with no increase in capacity, plus also millions lost due to the total closure of the Kop for a season or two but maybe replaced with a small temporary stand.

My maths says admission prices on the Kop would need increasing from the current £25 a match to maybe £50 a match.
Even then with no increase in capacity it would take several decades to get the investment back.
Imagine coming up this investment idea on Dragons Den.

Rubbish villa didn't double their prices

 

[snootyfenooty]

Rubbish villa didn't double their prices

I've already explained to you that Villa didn't face the environmental costs that would be applicable today.

 

[Sean Thornton]

They removed a gas tank and waste disposal is as bad

It wasn't a gas and chemical plant.

It wasn't disposal, it was recycling. You often got gas tanks on industrial estates. Had it been a chemical plant I don't believe they would have been allowed to build on it so soon. You've exaggerated as usual.

 

[Worksop II]

That’s cos the pyros will set the bombs off

That should sort the posts out ............

 

[Sean Thornton]

That should sort the posts out ............

Nah, we'll still be posting shite.....

 

[mancunianblade]

Ha ha yeh forgot about that.

I’ve sat in most parts of the ground and the 4G and 3G internet reception is very hit and miss.
Even when it works it’s usually very slow.

Wonder if the technologies there yet to have wi-if around the ground with 20,000 using the signal at the same time?

I think something could be on the horizon in football that is not necessarily us. I noticed HP are involved with the building of the new spurs stadium and some marketing jargon about a “the first smart stadium”

 

[Fulwood Blade]

having worked for a land remediation company based in Yorkshire for 12 years in my time the cleaning of toxic land is easy these days and takes very little time.

The project is done on site and in effect the soil is washed. Out comes 3 piles - soil, rock/concrete (which is then crushed) and the toxic waste is treated on site then dumped ethically.

The 2 "clean" piles of soil and crushed rock are then sold.

Seriously - it's an easy process.

The issue all along with this is do United want to do a proper job or a cheap job.

The amount of money that is going to be available from selling premier league rights overseas is astronomical compared to what UK rights are, and it is this that should help finance the expansion properly - don't any of you follow what's going on the League we are going to be joining next season

UTB

 

[1889]

I think something could be on the horizon in football that is not necessarily us. I noticed HP are involved with the building of the new spurs stadium and some marketing jargon about a “the first smart stadium”

What? A fucking sauce company?

Are you suggesting The Hendesons Relish Kop?

 

[penthouseblade]

having worked for a land remediation company based in Yorkshire for 12 years in my time the cleaning of toxic land is easy these days and takes very little time.

The project is done on site and in effect the soil is washed. Out comes 3 piles - soil, rock/concrete (which is then crushed) and the toxic waste is treated on site then dumped ethically.

The 2 "clean" piles of soil and crushed rock are then sold.

Seriously - it's an easy process.

The issue all along with this is do United want to do a proper job or a cheap job.

The amount of money that is going to be available from selling premier league rights overseas is astronomical compared to what UK rights are, and it is this that should help finance the expansion properly - don't any of you follow what's going on the League we are going to be joining next season

UTB

Hope springs eternal Fulwood Blade!? So with your experience, do you have any idea on what it would cost to remove the existing Kop and spoil heap underneath?

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

Shortly improving facilities first then reinvesting that back into the stand would make the most sense.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Hope springs eternal Fulwood Blade!? So with your experience, do you have any idea on what it would cost to remove the existing Kop and spoil heap underneath?

No idea what it would cost - my main argument was since the price of landfill has gone through the roof, clever ideas were developed early 2000's to solve removal of toxic waste from brown field sites. It all depends what (if anything) is under the stand. If it was carcinogenic, I doubt a stand would have been allowed to be built. I remember seeing it built and the concrete top everyone now sits on was very thick. It's just a shit stand and always has been since Woolhouse ( I think) gave the go ahead for it. It has served it's purpose, but belongs in a past era. ONLY premier league money should pay for it, but it should be done correctly.........what the fuck would Real Madrid say when they play here in the future?

UTB

 

[ucandomagic]

... what the fuck would Real Madrid say when they play here in the future?

UTB

This is a nice Desso?

 

[Sheffsteel]

No idea what it would cost - my main argument was since the price of landfill has gone through the roof, clever ideas were developed early 2000's to solve removal of toxic waste from brown field sites. It all depends what (if anything) is under the stand. If it was carcinogenic, I doubt a stand would have been allowed to be built. I remember seeing it built and the concrete top everyone now sits on was very thick. It's just a shit stand and always has been since Woolhouse ( I think) gave the go ahead for it. It has served it's purpose, but belongs in a past era. ONLY premier league money should pay for it, but it should be done correctly.........what the fuck would Real Madrid say when they play here in the future?

UTB

But “done properly” means negligable Kop expansion.
Surely the club would expect to receive a financial return on such a large investment.
Doubt whether corporate facilities alone would realise a massive income.
Also if we have corporate facilities in the Kop, then would it mean we may as well ditch the corporate facilities in the South stand?

Would love to have a honest discussion with McCabe.
He’s an expert on property developement and will know all his options regards stadium expansion at Bramall Lane. He went ahead with the Cherry Street Corner shop/ office developement, so he’s willing to do whatever makes business sense.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Would it be feasible to remove the Kop roof and build a second tier over the existing Kop?

Existing seats all stay in place so no loss of revenue while building takes place
Budget-priced seats still available for those who want them and existing atmosphere retained.
Improved view if the second tier can be built without pillars.
New, enclosed facilities can be provided behind the current stand and shared by both tiers.
Would add a whole tier of new seating to the ground with potentially great views and atmosphere.
Therefore a potentially better and quicker “return on investment” than extending The South Stand.

Is that feasible? Logistically? Financially? If not, why not?

 

[John Street West Terrace]

I never tire of looking at that proposed development pic very impressive ,but I fear we are a long way off seeing it ..but watching the current brand of football is more than compensation , let’s continue doing the business on the pitch & see where it takes us

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Would it be feasible to remove the Kop roof and build a second tier over the existing Kop?

Existing seats all stay in place so no loss of revenue while building takes place
Budget-priced seats still available for those who want them and existing atmosphere retained.
Improved view if the second tier can be built without pillars.
New, enclosed facilities can be provided behind the current stand and shared by both tiers.
Would add a whole tier of new seating to the ground with potentially great views and atmosphere.
Therefore a potentially better and quicker “return on investment” than extending The South Stand.

Is that feasible? Logistically? Financially? If not, why not?

I’m not sure the solution to the cheap slap-dash approach to the stand previously is to double-down on cheapness and slapdashery. When we build this we should be thinking about stands that last 50 years or more – we shouldn’t build something that some odd mishmash of old and new. And converting it to a two-tier in the process? It’s a no to the Frankenstand from me.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I’m not sure the solution to the cheap slap-dash approach to the stand previously is to double-down on cheapness and slapdashery. When we build this we should be thinking about stands that last 50 years or more – we shouldn’t build something that some odd mishmash of old and new. And converting it to a two-tier in the process? It’s a no to the Frankenstand from me.

Who says it would have to be developed in a cheap slap-dash way?

It at least addresses all the main issues that people have raised, without saying just leave The Kop to rot and extend the South Stand instead.

I’m thinking of something like this in red and white:-

 

[Sothall_Blade]

This is what the current development proposal for The Kop is.
Extending at the back, rather than rebuilding, presumably for the reasons that people have stated.
If they’re going to do that at least make it worth while with a few thousand extra seats rather than what looks like a few hundred.
No more bloody Business Centres in the corners where (future) seats should be either!

 

[penthouseblade]

No idea what it would cost - my main argument was since the price of landfill has gone through the roof, clever ideas were developed early 2000's to solve removal of toxic waste from brown field sites. It all depends what (if anything) is under the stand. If it was carcinogenic, I doubt a stand would have been allowed to be built. I remember seeing it built and the concrete top everyone now sits on was very thick. It's just a shit stand and always has been since Woolhouse ( I think) gave the go ahead for it. It has served it's purpose, but belongs in a past era. ONLY premier league money should pay for it, but it should be done correctly.........what the fuck would Real Madrid say when they play here in the future?

UTB

Ok mate nevermind, interesting input you have nonetheless. Levelling it sounds more feasible now!

Wasn't Woolhouse on the run by 92/93??

And Real Madrid et al would probably say "Dis Coop stand of yours, very flat, no?"

 

[Silent Blade]

Wasn't Woolhouse on the run by 92/93??

Summer 1993. Remember seeing him in a video travelling with the players to Wembley so it wasnt long after that

 

[DaveBassettsgoneonholiday]

Ok mate nevermind, interesting input you have nonetheless. Levelling it sounds more feasible now!

Wasn't Woolhouse on the run by 92/93??

And Real Madrid et al would probably say "Dis Coop stand of yours, very flat, no?"

I hope we never stoop so low as to have it sponsored by the co-op after their leniency towards the other half of the city.

 

[penthouseblade]

Summer 1993. Remember seeing him in a video travelling with the players to Wembley so it wasnt long after that

Cheers old boy! I do like how you pop up randomly with tit bits of information, facts and figures! Any idea what became of Woolhouse in the end?

Which camp are you in then Silent, rebuild the Kop or extend at the back.....?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

View attachment 32413

This is what the current development proposal for The Kop is.
Extending at the back, rather than rebuilding, presumably for the reasons that people have stated.
If they’re going to do that at least make it worth while with a few thousand extra seats rather than what looks like a few hundred.
No more bloody Business Centres in the corners where (future) seats should be either!

That's looks suspiciously like a business centre in the corner to me! I wonder why we need another one? I think, in time, these business centres at opposite corners of the ground will expand and start to take up more and more seats, until the whole stadium has gone and we just have one big joined-up business centre. You won't need a season ticket or loyalty points to watch a game, you'll just need to book a meeting room and sit behind glass windows that don't open, drinking weak coffee out of polystyrene cups. We're doomed I'm tellin' yer!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Cheers old boy! I do like how you pop up randomly with tit bits of information, facts and figures! Any idea what became of Woolhouse in the end?

Which camp are you in then Silent, rebuild the Kop or extend at the back.....?

What became of Woolhouse in the end is the same as what became of Lord Lucan. In fact they could be one and the same person. He's never been found. There have been rumours of him popping up all over the place, Turkey, Australia, but no one knows where he is.

Just a comment re the kop plans...I think the club will do whatever is cheapest tbh - and that probably means putting a cantilever structure on the back of it and extending it upwards. They'll need to get rid of those pillars as well and a cantilever roof would make that possible. My preference would be to knock it down and build something from scratch. Ideally a two-tier affair with "safe-standing" in the lower half and seats above.

 

[DaveBassettsgoneonholiday]

After a quick neb on the net it looks like Arsenal demolished their old North Bank & rebuilt a 12,400 seat two tier stand inside 12 months. Ground capacity was reduced for them down to 29,000 for a full season. Guessing our capacity would be around 20-21,000 if we went down that route, add to that the extra cost of a state of the art (ahem) new build as opposed to an extension I can only see it going one way.

 

[Harrisblade]

That's looks suspiciously like a business centre in the corner to me! I wonder why we need another one? I think, in time, these business centres at opposite corners of the ground will expand and start to take up more and more seats, until the whole stadium has gone and we just have one big joined-up business centre. You won't need a season ticket or loyalty points to watch a game, you'll just need to book a meeting room and sit behind glass windows that don't open, drinking weak coffee out of polystyrene cups. We're doomed I'm tellin' yer!

That's what happens once you've installed a Desso pitch

 

[Rusty view]

I believed the plans were just to extend it back. Remove the pillars adding a new roof. (And the business centre, which would provide income 365 days)

One thing I'd like to see is using the space behind/under the new structure to hold a large bar.

When I say large I mean something on a similar scale to Shearers bar at Newcastle.

If anyone has ever been to the Louden Tavern outside ibrox it could be done like this. I went to a league cup game up there and the Louden is done up in red white and blue with multiple screens showing endless videos of great goals / highlights from past and present and games. (Its a bit rough but you get the idea)

This would add to the "match day experience" as well as keep income within the club.

P.s I'm only 5" 3 so don't suffer the leg room issue when I use to sit on the kop.

Www.louden.co.uk