New stadium at the Lane?

[Torrix1889]

A new bar / restaurant would make money on match days, especially if it were accessible to fans on the kop as well as those entering from the street

As long as it sold decent Ale...

 

[Upton_Blade]

Agreed, but I hear that the match day takings at some pubs (Sheaf, Lion, Cricks) are the reason they are still open. Don't under-estimate the profits of serving hundreds of pints and loads of meals over a very busy pre and post match

Malc only opens the Cricks on matchdays for a reason. He's tried opening other days/times but there just isn't the trade round there anymore to make it viable. Essentially the only real potential customers at other times are the huge student population but they load up at their digs before heading straight to town and even if places tried to target them with cheap drinks promos they still wouldn't be able to price as cheap as the supermarkets do so that wouldn't work either.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Not underestimating the take, but the cost of fitting out a new bar is expensive and let's be honest - and I go in the Cricks - decor on those three Isnt division street standards. A trendy bar wouldn't work, too expensive cost wise and theirs no footfall. Plus I'd expect all three aren't running at full commercial rents either. Hasnt the Lion changed hands a few times lately?

I agree the take on matchdays must be fantastic and even more so now the crowds are as big as they are but if you are talking about the cost of a brand new bar fit you'd need more than just 23 busy days per year to make it work. Also in relative terms compared to most other places there are still a lot of pubs in the same area vying for business from a reduced potential customer base.

Bar 27 was reasonably nice inside but now isn't open as the matchday trade wasn't alone wasn't enough to make it work. The Golden Lion is a Punch managed house now so they can probably afford to keep it open based on matchday trade but there's no way on earth a leasee would survive and The Sheaf is an Enterprise Beacon site so again the pubco picks up a lot of the slack from quieter times and the landlord would quite happily only open evenings and weekends if he could.

Unless you have other revenue streams apart from football for example a good live music offering or food then pubs round there nowadays are always going to struggle unfortunately.

 

[Dkc]

Reviving this old thread as opposed to starting a new one.

I have always thought that the JSS lets the ground down a little due not so much to its height but its lack of a second tier - OK there are 200 external seats outside the executive boxes, but it's disappointing that no proper second tier was included when it was built. I think it could look fantastic with a second tier. Obviously the kop should have greater priority, but perhaps - presuming we stay in the PL - improvements to the JSS could be considered.

Obviously the existing box seats are a big earner. We are probably raking in 150 quid per seat in the PL, or perhaps 30k per match plus hospitality sales if all seats are taken. Any rebuild would need to increase this income substantially to make it worth while.

Interesting to see this photo posted recently showing the JSS under construction. It shows what we would have to work with if the top executive box tier was gutted.




Unfortunately it looks like between the boxes are concrete pillars that perform some kind of fuction supporting the roof. If those pillars were removed, there would be space for a second tier maybe housing 1500 fans instead of the existing 200 (?) capacity. You could offer these fans access to the hospitality facilities below, but you couldn't offer boxes. Still, you could probably charge high prices - £75 or more, which would mean a matchday income of maybe £110,000 if every seat was sold. The work wouldn't be too disrupive either. With a bit of planning you could probably gut the boxes and get much of the new tier done during the close season.

The problem is those posts. I'm not a structural engineer but it looks likely that they can't be removed. The posts are at the front of where the boxes are now, and any seats behind them would have an awful view. A small upper tier wholly in front of the posts might be possible, but this would be a bigger undertaking as new steel support girders would be needed to extend it over the lower tier.

So could the pillars could be removed without the stand collapsing? I doubt it.

 

[Booker4]

Remember the John Street going up and was so fascinated to see it evolve. At the time I was going to the now demolished Parkwood College and I'd go into town first and would regularly walk to the Lane to see the stand go up - sad I know but I was/am a bit of a anorak on these matters!

I agree the John Street could do with being bigger but I think that it may have been a problem to get planning permission for the properties behind?

Back to the present day, and I think once we join the Kop with the corner stand and do it properly as opposed to the current corner stand and extend the kop the Lane will be one of the best looking stadiums in the land. All of this is subject to staying up of course and if the Prince wins he may have a different view to McCabe.

 

[Ron_Justice]

The Ideal situation, assuming The Kop, South and Bramall Lane stay largely untouched, would be for the club to buy the remaining houses and buildings on John Street (premier league money will help here ) and extend the clubs footprint at least half way back towards Clough Road. That would allow a very good sized, double tier 'premium' stand to replace the John Street stand that could be blended in with the respective rakes of The Kop and Bramall Lane. It would also allow for a well presented 'face' of the club, a modern 'square' / Plaza to greet those arriving from town.

Ideal Situations rarely come to fruition mind....

 

[Dkc]

I agree the John Street could do with being bigger but I think that it may have been a problem to get planning permission for the properties behind?

I'm not suggesting a height increase or a new roof, a second tier could fit in the existing space.

If the posts couldn't be remove, there would have to be three or four big new girders attached to the back of the stand, behind the executive boxes, descending diagonally to support an overhanging second tier. If it was done that way, most boxes could be retained, but they wouldn't be able to house all the fans in the new seats, and an overhang would be more expensive and disruptive than building the tier where the exec boxes are now.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

he problem is those posts. I'm not a structural engineer but it looks likely that they can't be removed. The posts are at the front of where the boxes are now, and any seats behind them would have an awful view. A small upper tier wholly in front of the posts might be possible, but this would be a bigger undertaking as new steel support girders would be needed to extend it over the lower tier.

I said it at the time, but given we were paying him a wage to not really play football, we really should have taken advantage of Martyn Woolford’s unfinished degree in civil engineering when we had the chance.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

The Ideal situation ... would be for the club to buy the remaining houses and buildings on John Street (premier league money will help here ) and extend the clubs footprint at least half way back towards Clough Road.

View attachment 60758

Sounds great in theory. But, what if the inhabitants of "those remaining houses" on John St don't want to sell up and move out? What if their family has lived their for 20, 30, 50, 100 years? The day we become a club that thinks, "Fuck it, we have Prem money, let's coerce people out of their homes on John St", is the day I'll likely jack it in.

 

[Harry's Game]

There is indeed an height restriction on the John Street stand not just those properties directly behind the stand but blocking daylight from the properties towards the corner of John Street and Shoreham Street.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I said it at the time, but given we were paying him a wage to not really play football, we really should have taken advantage of Martyn Woolford’s unfinished degree in civil engineering when we had the chance.

Can you imagine the outcry ?

 

[Dkc]

This picture shoes that the concrete pillars separating the exec boxes are steel girders and can't be removed. The white girders attached to the red steel provide the overhang for the existing external seats. These white girders would need to be replaced with longer girders to create a bigger overhang for any new tier to work.

 

[Booker4]

I'm not suggesting a height increase or a new roof, a second tier could fit in the existing space.

If the posts couldn't be remove, there would have to be three or four big new girders attached to the back of the stand, behind the executive boxes, descending diagonally to support an overhanging second tier. If it was done that way, most boxes could be retained, but they wouldn't be able to house all the fans in the new seats, and an overhang would be more expensive and disruptive than building the tier where the exec boxes are now.

I've no idea how that could be achieved but it sounds great! I've had a couple of drinks of wine and watching Blades videos of Saturday gone! Amazing! Sorry this is totally unrelated!

 

[TaxiBlade]

Reviving this old thread as opposed to starting a new one.
Interesting to see this photo posted recently showing the JSS under construction. It shows what we would have to work with if the top executive box tier was gutted.

View attachment 60754

The problem with JS is that it was built WAY too far back.

You can see well in this picture below by Ron_Justice ...

View attachment 60758

In fact, just seen even better shot, see Dkc picture below.

If they built it right up to the pitch (or even further as there is loads of room in front of SS too, they could easily have fitted in 2 tiers) Lack of forward thought, as the kop probably wasn't considered to be replaced in the future. Shame really. That was partly why the SS was built so far back (like Molineux did, if anyone remembers)

This picture shoes that the concrete pillars separating the exec boxes are steel girders and can't be removed. The white girders attached to the red steel provide the overhang for the existing external seats. These white girders would need to be replaced with longer girders to create a bigger overhang for any new tier to work.


View attachment 60763

 

[Ron_Justice]

Sounds great in theory. But, what if the inhabitants of "those remaining houses" on John St don't want to sell up and move out? What if their family has lived their for 20, 30, 50, 100 years? The day we become a club that thinks, "Fuck it, we have Prem money, let's coerce people out of their homes on John St", is the day I'll likely jack it in.

100% take your point and agree. As I said, Ideal Situation. Which is one of the reasons I actually think the real Ideal Situation would be to do a Spurs and turn the pitch 90 degrees and shunt the center spot towards Cherry Street, but we're really in Cloud Cuckoo Land with that one!

 

[Dkc]

100% take your point and agree. As I said, Ideal Situation. Which is one of the reasons I actually think the real Ideal Situation would be to do a Spurs and turn the pitch 90 degrees and shunt the center spot towards Cherry Street, but we're really in Cloud Cuckoo Land with that one!

Not if we stay in the PL a few seasons. Many existing and former PL clubs have built new stadiums on the back of their PL riches.

Just to emphasize, no need to raise the height of the stand or the roof to create a new tier on the JSS. But of course we'd have to build up for something truly impressive like the longer stands at Stamford Bridge.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

The day we become a club that thinks, "Fuck it, we have Prem money, let's coerce people out of their homes on John St", is the day I'll likely jack it in.

We should surely deploy the South Stand STHs approach of demolishing the houses first, and then letting the owners know that they no longer have a house, but have been moved to one of the lovely new Boundary Corner flats.

 

[snootyfenooty]

This picture shoes that the concrete pillars separating the exec boxes are steel girders and can't be removed. The white girders attached to the red steel provide the overhang for the existing external seats. These white girders would need to be replaced with longer girders to create a bigger overhang for any new tier to work.


View attachment 60763

Re-the comments on adding extensions and so on to the JSS this wouldn't be possible. The steelwork is designed to take the loads it presently sustains and you can't simply just chop bits off or add bits on. It would be cheaper to knock the stand down and start again rather than fanny about with the existing one. The SS is different in that it is a reinforced concrete structure rather than the steel frame of the JSS and you simply build the extension at the back of it as a separate entity (as is the plan).

 

[Dkc]

Re-the comments on adding extensions and so on to the JSS this wouldn't be possible. The steelwork is designed to take the loads it presently sustains and you can't simply just chop bits off or add bits on. It would be cheaper to knock the stand down and start again rather than fanny about with the existing one. The SS is different in that it is a reinforced concrete structure rather than the steel frame of the JSS and you simply build the extension at the back of it as a separate entity (as is the plan).

I'll take your word for it as I know nowt about engineering.

 

[snootyfenooty]

I'll take your word for it as I know nowt about engineering.

Nowt to it mate. The photo in #402 gives you a good visual and the extension would have to go up the back and over the top of what is there already. The steelwork around the boxes serves only to provide a framework for the boxes and the hospitality behind them, not another tier of terracing for 5000 fans. The lower part of the steelwork is designed to support the terracing and the boxes above them and not much else so that would be inadequate too. Then you've got the rear stanchions and cantilever design for a new roof to consider as well. In other words you would have to integrate the new bit into what's there already and it wouldn't stack up. it would be like adding another storey and another 3 bedrooms onto an existing 3 bedroom house, i.e. better to knock it down and start again.

 

[Tom Bott]

I've had a couple of drinks of wine and watching Blades videos of Saturday gone! Amazing! Sorry this is totally unrelated!

It's one hell of a ride - scream if you want to go faster.

 

[FMBlade1]

Recently had a new stadium built and named after me.... on Football Manager after winning the champions league. Didn't know whether to be pleased with that!

In the 'dream scenario' it would be nice to have a new 100k seater stadium should we (I know I'm dreaming) become a world elite club, and keep Bramall Lane as a training ground/a place for our reserves/under 18's to play with the occasional first team league cup game.

 

[Tom Bott]

Not if we stay in the PL a few seasons. Many existing and former PL clubs have built new stadiums on the back of their PL riches.

Think Sunderland

 

[TaxiBlade]

Re-the comments on adding extensions and so on to the JSS this wouldn't be possible. The steelwork is designed to take the loads it presently sustains and you can't simply just chop bits off or add bits on. It would be cheaper to knock the stand down and start again rather than fanny about with the existing one. The SS is different in that it is a reinforced concrete structure rather than the steel frame of the JSS and you simply build the extension at the back of it as a separate entity (as is the plan).

I'll take your word for it as I know nowt about engineering.

A bit like what liverpool did with that new big 3 tier thing. The old stand is still there, and they just built behind it, and somehow stitched it together. quite impression engineering.

We can solve all that by just demolishing and rebuilding the kop. I won't write it out all again, but this is similar to another topic . This was my idea with a few sketches. I like the one in the attachments listed as Spurs type thing, as my first choice.

 

[TaxiBlade]

Think Sunderland

I think designers must have realised now that 'bowls' don't work.

We'll never go down that line, unless skint and selling the prime land. We can easily improve the ground with the room, however, it's never going to be perfect. Which is perfect really. Part of the history and evolving.



Look at the difference with Arse and Spurs. 2 local sides with similar new stadiums.

I bet you couldn't find a single arsenal fan who genuinely thinks their bowl, is better than Spurs more tradional style bowl!

 

[Tom Bott]

I think designers must have realised now that 'bowls' don't work.

I was thinking that perhaps spending all that money on the stadium was possibly a contributory factor in their current plight.
As was ours when we built the South stand, no funds to strengthen the team.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

I like the one in the attachments listed as Spurs type thing, as my first choice.

I got a buddy out here that’s a big Spurs fan.
I told him how excited I was about getting to see Blades vs Arsenal later this year.
He told me he was going back as well and was really looking forward to seeing the new stadium. He hadn’t a clue who they were playing.
I hope we never descend to that level.

 

[BladeFisher]

100% take your point and agree. As I said, Ideal Situation. Which is one of the reasons I actually think the real Ideal Situation would be to do a Spurs and turn the pitch 90 degrees and shunt the center spot towards Cherry Street, but we're really in Cloud Cuckoo Land with that one!

...... and play our games at er Wembley?

 

[YES Blade]

I think designers must have realised now that 'bowls' don't work.

We'll never go down that line, unless skint and selling the prime land. We can easily improve the ground with the room, however, it's never going to be perfect. Which is perfect really. Part of the history and evolving.



Look at the difference with Arse and Spurs. 2 local sides with similar new stadiums.

I bet you couldn't find a single arsenal fan who genuinely thinks their bowl, is better than Spurs more tradional style bowl!

I’m fine with it not being perfect, I do have an issue with it looking shit. The corner stand, TV studio, office block and to lesser extent hotel are crimes against football stadia!

I’d rather the prince win the court case than McCabe build some bloody flats on the Kop/South Stand corner.

 

[bromtom]

Shoreham Street has to be behind a goal for me.

Make the Kop bigger, make the South two tiered, bribe the council and extend the BLUT backwards over the road, dig down into the ground and put an extra two or three rows on all stands at the front.