New stadium at the Lane?

[blade too long]

I didn't realise you didn't understand what self financing meant. @rauls point still stands though, did these lenders back the scheme based on "build it and they will come" without any business plan based on actual known realities.

no they financed it on Arsenal selling half the team
and increased cl money
same way man utd mortgaged themselves to over half a billion

 

[Sean Thornton]

no they financed it on Arsenal selling half the team
and increased cl money
same way man utd mortgaged themselves to over half a billion

Thus ignoring the Granada money, the Nike, money, the Emirates sponsorship money, the bond scheme and the Highbury development. ( all in the article you quoted) Things the funders would have taken into account alongside the season ticket waiting list rather than the wing and a prayer approach of ambition, as you claim.

Building a stadium too big for them hasn't helped MK Dons attendance wise and their owner was certainly ambitious.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Heres a link to transfer fees in and out which disproves your point about selling players to pay for it, they've spent far more since 2004 than they've had in.

Oh, and Anelka was sold almost five years before the stadium works began and the money was used to fund a new training ground in 1999.

 

[blade too long]

Thus ignoring the Granada money, the Nike, money, the Emirates sponsorship money, the bond scheme and the Highbury development. ( all in the article you quoted) Things the funders would have taken into account alongside the season ticket waiting list rather than the wing and a prayer approach of ambition, as you claim.

Building a stadium too big for them hasn't helped MK Dons attendance wise and their owner was certainly ambitious.

Its all money theyve had to pull in still its not built on the fact there was a queue of 30000 people outside highbury for season tickets
MK shouldnt really have a stadium , but for Winkleman buying a league team ,
Thats just a different take on the Darlington debacle, ,

heres two teams thats never seen 40000 crowds ,,,ever
the last time football caught the public attention was after the war
now being in the prem has the same type of pull
we were the first team along with tottenham to play in front of 100000 pl;us

mk dons have no history to build on

 

[Sean Thornton]

Its all money theyve had to pull in still its not built on the fact there was a queue of 30000 people outside highbury for season tickets
MK shouldnt really have a stadium , but for Winkleman buying a league team ,
Thats just a different take on the Darlington debacle, ,

heres two teams thats never seen 40000 crowds ,,,ever
the last time football caught the public attention was after the war
now being in the prem has the same type of pull
we were the first team along with tottenham to play in front of 100000 pl;us

mk dons have no history to build on

You've exaggerated your own figure up to 30000 now. Okay

MKD do have a stadium though. They built it. They are ambitious. Not that many came.

What's the 1901 Cup Final got to do with Arsenal and the Emirates?

Let's leave it here because I'm beginning to think you're winding me up, because no one can be that dense or irrational.

 

[blade too long]

You've exaggerated your own figure up to 30000 now. Okay

MKD do have a stadium though. They built it. They are ambitious. Not that many came.

What's the 1901 Cup Final got to do with Arsenal and the Emirates?

Let's leave it here because I'm beginning to think you're winding me up, because no one can be that dense or irrational.

its was a winkleman folly
he had the money and the idea , but no history to build on

your the dense one bringing mk dons into it

at least use an example that involves a proper football club

not one built as a franchise, that took a beating when we didnt win the world cup bid

 

[Dkc]

If MK Dons were to get in the PL I'm guessing their stadium would be pretty full every week. "Small" teams in the PL like Watford and Bournemouth tend to sell out every home game and could do with bigger stadiums,

Saying that, when smaller teams drop out of the PL their crowds drop substantially too. Cardiff are a prime example. They don't even bother opening the big top tier of their main stand nowadays.

 

[The_Green_Man]

If MK Dons were to get in the PL I'm guessing their stadium would be pretty full every week. "Small" teams in the PL like Watford and Bournemouth tend to sell out every home game and could do with bigger stadiums,

Saying that, when smaller teams drop out of the PL their crowds drop substantially too. Cardiff are a prime example. They don't even bother opening the big top tier of their main stand nowadays.

Whilst us fans may not like doing so, the key to using a stadium with an improved capacity to it's full potential is to use it for other non-footballing purposes.

A good few clubs do it these days. One decent sized gig and a couple of other sporting events (like we have done with motorcross already) will help keep the books balanced.

And we now have a pitch that is more than capable of holding such events.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

One can only imagine the reaction of some,spending money on seats that will be hardly used,if Desso is anything to go by

See #311

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

View attachment 23950

When the stand is used for sitting in, doesn't all that ironmongery get in the way and spoil the view?

Only in S6

 

[borbokis]

Whilst I agree the ground will only be improved if there is a possibility of return on the investment in an ideal world I'd like to see the kop bulldozed and a new stand built with corners to make the "home" side of the ground one continuous section. I would also like to see a section of the enterprise centre between John st and Bramall lane glassed out pitch side and used for a TV studio. This way we can take advantage of the fact we used a corner of the ground to build stupid office blocks.

I would also like to see the wall on shoreham st removed and the space under the Kop extended out and sectioned up to allow units which could be rented out possibly by shops/bars etc. This might be a way to get return on investment? we already have a club shop and ticket office so no need to relocate them. The supporter concourse could be on the "second level" above these units?

 

[borbokis]

I also agree that the BLLT seems to be the natural place for away fans as it's architecturally separated on all sides so in theory we shouldn't need to net off any seats. We would only need to look at how they enter/exit the ground. Perhaps reconfigure the upper/lower tier walkways from the south stand and have upper tier fans use that instead of coming out onto Bramall Lane? Never been in that section of the ground so not sure how it's set up.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Whilst I agree the ground will only be improved if there is a possibility of return on the investment in an ideal world I'd like to see the kop bulldozed and a new stand built with corners to make the "home" side of the ground one continuous section. I would also like to see a section of the enterprise centre between John st and Bramall lane glassed out pitch side and used for a TV studio. This way we can take advantage of the fact we used a corner of the ground to build stupid office blocks.

I would also like to see the wall on shoreham st removed and the space under the Kop extended out and sectioned up to allow units which could be rented out possibly by shops/bars etc. This might be a way to get return on investment? we already have a club shop and ticket office so no need to relocate them. The supporter concourse could be on the "second level" above these units?

I can't see any bars doing that well in the area, the pubs around there are quiet in the week and it's hardly Ecclesall Road footfall wise. Same with shops.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Wouldn't a steeper rake and more leg room mean a capacity REDUCTION in the Kop?

Yes but it would make it easier to join the kop and SS together with maybe 2.5-3k seats in the corner and replace the abomination at other end of the kop too.

 

[vorpal blade]

Though its the most recent major stand there - I also think the John Street Stand would help the stadium if it were replaced. If it were built closer to the South Stand, (with the pitch possibly, but not necessarily nudged southward too).

This was the thinking when the South Stand was built. Moving the back of the stand further from the houses on John Street would allow it to be built higher (originally a matching stand to the South Stand was planned in the master plan) (over-shadowing.)

This would have the effect of taking most of the office block at the Shoreham St./John St. corner out of the equation and the amateurishly designed corner between the Kop and the John St. too.

Frankly the John Street Stand is a poor cut-price effort. There are reasons but I'll save those for later.

 

[YES Blade]

So 375 posts, surely one of them shows the new stadium plans?!?

 

[The_Green_Man]

I can't see any bars doing that well in the area, the pubs around there are quiet in the week and it's hardly Ecclesall Road footfall wise. Same with shops.

I completely disagree.

I think the new chinese development on the roundabout, coupled with the ever increasing student population will only enhance the overall potential of the area. We keep hearing of a desire to create a "china town" sort of area, full of shops and restaurants and like....This would surely open doors for investment into the surrounding area....and McCabe is no fool when it comes to property, he knows this all too well which is why he openly promotes and backs it all!.

We probably arern't talking 1-2 years but more 3-5, however this area will no doubt blossom due to the investment being made by overseas investors. With plenty of derelict / suitable development land still up for grabs, this area is definitely one to watch for investors.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I completely disagree.

I think the new chinese development on the roundabout, coupled with the ever increasing student population will only enhance the overall potential of the area. We keep hearing of a desire to create a "china town" sort of area, full of shops and restaurants and like....This would surely open doors for investment into the surrounding area....and McCabe is no fool when it comes to property, he knows this all too well which is why he openly promotes and backs it all!.

We probably arern't talking 1-2 years but more 3-5, however this area will no doubt blossom due to the investment being made by overseas investors. With plenty of derelict / suitable development land still up for grabs, this area is definitely one to watch for investors.

Shoreham Street is the wrong side of the ground. I can't see Chinatown moving that way. As I said earlier, you'd need a lot of bars and shops to attract people. Trendy bars and shops as well. Too much around London Road, Ecclesall Road and the new development in my opinion. The only stand out place on Shoreham Street is the ground.

In any event I thought McCabes plans were for flats and offices, not retail.

 

[borbokis]

Shoreham Street is the wrong side of the ground. I can't see Chinatown moving that way. As I said earlier, you'd need a lot of bars and shops to attract people. Trendy bars and shops as well. Too much around London Road, Ecclesall Road and the new development in my opinion. The only stand out place on Shoreham Street is the ground.

In any event I thought McCabes plans were for flats and offices, not retail.

Well perhaps office space is better than retail, I just thought opening up the street level it would naturally lend itself to some sort of retail. At the moment no one goes round there because all there is is a chippy and a newsagents

 

[Dkc]

A new bar / restaurant would make money on match days, especially if it were accessible to fans on the kop as well as those entering from the street

 

[Sean Thornton]

A new bar / restaurant would make money on match days, especially if it were accessible to fans on the kop as well as those entering from the street

It would need to be busy indeed on match days to pay the running costs for the other six days around there.

 

[Dkc]

It would need to be busy indeed on match days to pay the running costs for the other six days around there.

Agreed, but I hear that the match day takings at some pubs (Sheaf, Lion, Cricks) are the reason they are still open. Don't under-estimate the profits of serving hundreds of pints and loads of meals over a very busy pre and post match

 

[Sean Thornton]

Agreed, but I hear that the match day takings at some pubs (Sheaf, Lion, Cricks) are the reason they are still open. Don't under-estimate the profits of serving hundreds of pints and loads of meals over a very busy pre and post match

Not underestimating the take, but the cost of fitting out a new bar is expensive and let's be honest - and I go in the Cricks - decor on those three Isnt division street standards. A trendy bar wouldn't work, too expensive cost wise and theirs no footfall. Plus I'd expect all three aren't running at full commercial rents either. Hasnt the Lion changed hands a few times lately?

 

[TJB.]

The only stand out place on Shoreham Street is the ground.

You've clearly never had a fishcake butty from Man Fryday.

 

[cahill]

But why would we need a 50k stadium?

So that Wendies reserves can play here

 

[CarlMcBlade]

you know they call the Emirates 'the library'.. right??

View attachment 23947

Still very anti-office block!!!!

Give us an improved Kop that makes good of the room that sits behind it......and then put proper corners in that blend!!

Via la "Old Bramall Lane".......

That's fucking fantastic!
Send it to the Prince or his representat Ives. He may insist the Scarborough group do something better than their proposals.

 

[Sean Thornton]

That's fucking fantastic!
Send it to the Prince or his representat Ives. He may insist the Scarborough group do something better than their proposals.

I'd imagine he could insist all he wants, seeing as the stadium is nothing to do with him other than being a tenant.

 

[metalblade]

That's fucking fantastic!
Send it to the Prince or his representat Ives. He may insist the Scarborough group do something better than their proposals.

Just needs an IKEA next to it

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I'd imagine he could insist all he wants, seeing as the stadium is nothing to do with him other than being a tenant.

Suppose he could withdraw all his "game changing" money?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

View attachment 23947

Still very anti-office block!!!!
Give us an improved Kop that makes good of the room that sits behind it......and then put proper corners in that blend!!

Via la "Old Bramall Lane".......

Hate the office block proposal myself. Why do they have to intrude into the line of the stadium, when there is plenty of land in the BL footprint?
That picture illustrates what could be done to the corners at the very least.
When the kop was redeveloped after the Taylor report, we had just landed in the Prem at the same time, so a quick fix was needed.
The design was antiquated before it was even built, but still being used 26 years on.
More incredible is the basic "spoil heap design" is going to be incorporated into a 21st century football stadium.