Neil Warnocks selective memory/talking out of his arse

[Sean Thornton]

I think it’s a fair point that a manager of his experience should have spotted how important Hulse was and tried to bring in cover for him in the JTW. If our relegation could be attributed to one event, and in reality it can’t, it was losing Hulse. But maybe the money wasn’t available or we just couldn’t find someone, a bit like Wilder not replacing Coutts in the last JTW. Sometimes it just isn’t possible.

Didn't we spend £3m for the future?

Good point re Hulse though. A huge loss.

 

[Chali 2na]

I think it’s a fair point that a manager of his experience should have spotted how important Hulse was and tried to bring in cover for him in the JTW. If our relegation could be attributed to one event, and in reality it can’t, it was losing Hulse. But maybe the money wasn’t available or we just couldn’t find someone, a bit like Wilder not replacing Coutts in the last JTW. Sometimes it just isn’t possible.

I'm confident the money was available; we bought Shelton, Killgallon and Fathi for approximately £5m.

You may be right about not being able to identify a target though - in hindsight James Beattie would have been a good option!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Parachute payments. KM didn’t fund those.

Put £14m in though. Which covered the loss of income from the PL season.

 

[8lade]

I don't know if I've missed something in this thread it seems to have got a bit daft but no way did one factor 'double the attendances', even if 'doubling attendances' is taken as figurative and not a statistical point. Success of the playing side, pricing of admission, overall increase in the popularity of attending games and a whole lot more minor points must go into the increase of attendees if we can all agree on this and throw any more factors in you may think are important, we can move onto arguing about something else.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Parachute payments. KM didn’t fund those.

Parachute payments of around £25m at that time plus the Tevez money added up to about £50m. McCabe reckons he's in for £60m and the Prince £17m. We also must have a net gain of about £20m (wild guess) on transfers during this period. All in that's about £150m ballpark of extra-ordinaries to add to net receipts. Without going down the usual silly "wheersallthemunnehgone" argument, there's a serious case of gross mismanagement over the past 11 years in squandering that lot to answer for.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Parachute payments of around £25m at that time plus the Tevez money added up to about £50m. McCabe reckons he's in for £60m and the Prince £17m. We also must have a net gain of about £20m (wild guess) on transfers during this period. All in that's about £150m ballpark of extra-ordinaries to add to net receipts. Without going down the usual silly "wheersallthemunnehgone" argument, there's a serious case of gross mismanagement over the past 11 years in squandering that lot to answer for.

Nope. The £77m from owners isn't "income". It's debt write off and used to cover the ongoing trading losses. We netted £20m or so from Tevez after legal fees. So while this isn't a defence to the overall mismanagement, almost all due to managerial appointments between Warnock and Wilder, your £150m is more than halved at a stroke. We'd lost huge amounts which had to be paid for, you can't count it twice.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Nope. The £77m from owners isn't "income". It's debt write off and used to cover the ongoing trading losses. We netted £20m or so from Tevez after legal fees. So while this isn't a defence to the overall mismanagement, almost all due to managerial appointments between Warnock and Wilder, your £150m is more than halved at a stroke. We'd lost huge amounts which had to be paid for, you can't count it twice.

No I haven't, that's £150m put into the club in addition to revenue collected through the gate, TV, advertising, sponsorship, merchandise etc. It all adds up to the figure to balance outgoings. The losses you refer to are largely attributed to mismanagement and that's what I was getting at.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No I haven't, that's £150m put into the club in addition to revenue collected through the gate, TV, advertising, sponsorship, merchandise etc. It all adds up to the figure to balance outgoings. The losses you refer to are largely attributed to mismanagement and that's what I was getting at.

I know. I've agreed. But the £77m is to cover what's gone out over and above income. There are no " net receipts" to add to. We haven't balanced outgoings since the PL season.

 

[BushBlade]

Didn't we spend £3m for the future?

Good point re Hulse though. A huge loss.

Yeah but even then it wasn’t a lot of money. And I bet all of them were on low wages.

 

[BushBlade]

I'm confident the money was available; we bought Shelton, Killgallon and Fathi for approximately £5m.

You may be right about not being able to identify a target though - in hindsight James Beattie would have been a good option!

As I’ve said, it’s wasn’t a lot of money in the PL even then.

 

[BushBlade]

Put £14m in though. Which covered the loss of income from the PL season.

So? That doesn’t detract from my point that NW left us with parachute payments. We were in a better position than we were when he took over. KM also successfully pursued West Ham and, as far as I’m aware, put all the money he got from them into the club. Then allowed a piss-head and a coach to blow the lot. And non of that is owt to do with Warnock either.

 

[BushBlade]

Parachute payments of around £25m at that time plus the Tevez money added up to about £50m. McCabe reckons he's in for £60m and the Prince £17m. We also must have a net gain of about £20m (wild guess) on transfers during this period. All in that's about £150m ballpark of extra-ordinaries to add to net receipts. Without going down the usual silly "wheersallthemunnehgone" argument, there's a serious case of gross mismanagement over the past 11 years in squandering that lot to answer for.

Hence my comments on Robson and Blackwell on the Basham thread. KM took his eye off the ball (probably had other stuff on his plate due to the recession) and it cost him dearly.

 

[Chali 2na]

As I’ve said, it’s wasn’t a lot of money in the PL even then.

It was enough to buy Beattie and according to this site, we spent over £18m in both windows. Compared with our promotion rivals Reading (Spent £8m) and Watford (Spent £10m) I'd say it's more than decent.

 

[BushBlade]

It was enough to buy Beattie and according to this site, we spent over £18m in both windows. Compared with our promotion rivals Reading (Spent £8m) and Watford (Spent £10m) I'd say it's more than decent.

I’m not into transfer market tbh. Watford also went down. Reading had a far better side than us in the first place so could have got away with fewer additions. They probably also had a higher wage bill.

As I said in my original post, he should have signed someone who could do Hulse’s job and he didn’t. I then speculated as to why he might not have. That’s all. I don’t know the reasons why he didn’t. Maybe he’s an idiot and his seven promotions have all just been lucky.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So? That doesn’t detract from my point that NW left us with parachute payments. We were in a better position than we were when he took over. KM also successfully pursued West Ham and, as far as I’m aware, put all the money he got from them into the club. Then allowed a piss-head and a coach to blow the lot. And non of that is owt to do with Warnock either.

£20m or so went in, after legal fees. Robson and Kevin **** didnt spend it though as Robson left a year or so before we got it. It paid off the Santander borrowings which those two morons ran up in their search for, well, whatever. We were also left with PL expenses, not huge compared to say Man. United, but enough to cause us to make losses.

 

[BushBlade]

£20m or so went in, after legal fees. Robson and Kevin **** didnt spend it though as Robson left a year or so before we got it. It paid off the Santander borrowings which those two morons ran up in their search for, well, whatever. We were also left with PL expenses, not huge compared to say Man. United, but enough to cause us to make losses.

I think we got the West Ham money in two installments and the Santander loan was borrowed against it. You’re right Robson wouldn’t have seen it, it was after him. He just pissed away the first installment of the parachute payments (or rather Robinson did, the fucking tit).

 

[Chali 2na]

I’m not into transfer market tbh. Watford also went down. Reading had a far better side than us in the first place so could have got away with fewer additions. They probably also had a higher wage bill.

I'm not a fan of the site either, but it seems the only place to reference historical transfers.

I take your point about Watford's relegation and Readings wage bill. You said "it’s wasn’t a lot of money in the PL even then" which is probably true, I was just trying to point out that we still spent more than the 2 other promoted teams, so it should still have been competitive at least.

As I said in my original post, he should have signed someone who could do Hulse’s job and he didn’t. I then speculated as to why he might not have. That’s all. I don’t know the reasons why he didn’t. Maybe he’s an idiot and his seven promotions have all just been lucky.

I know you did, I agreed in my reply that it was probabaly a case of not being able to identify/secure targets.

I certainly don't think he's an idiot.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think we got the West Ham money in two installments and the Santander loan was borrowed against it. You’re right Robson wouldn’t have seen it, it was after him. He just pissed away the first installment of the parachute payments (or rather Robinson did, the fucking tit).

Five instalments.

 

[Chali 2na]

Five instalments.

Off topic slightly Sean, but is there any way one could find out the playing budget for recent seasons in the accounts, or by some other means?

 

[Lawrence]

Recall our terrific victory over Arsenal at the Lane that season with Jags heroics. Pity they were the only points we got against any of the top sides home or away. And please don't remind me how we set up away from home that season.

Defensive... every game, one up front... sorry!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Off topic slightly Sean, but is there any way one could find out the playing budget for recent seasons in the accounts, or by some other means?

Players wages? No. You just get a total for all salaries, NI etc and staff numbers for various salary groups

 

[Chali 2na]

Players wages? No. You just get a total for all salaries, NI etc and staff numbers for various salary groups

Fair enough.

 

[BettingBlade]

Warnock is an embarrassment. He turned us into a laughing stock that season.

All that Tevez bollocks, his shite negative tactics, he even blamed Ferguson and Benitez for playing weakened teams as one of the reasons we went down. Not to mention the money he blew on Luton Shelton and Mamadou Seck in January.

He should have absolutely kept us up that season and he blew it.

Can’t wait for the big nosed twat to be relegated from the Premier League once again

 

[Gavlar]

Watching Match of The Day 2. Interview with Neil Warnock “We’re not good enough to park the bus so I will have a go”. Just like the away matches in 2006/7. One up front every game inviting pressure on a defence that wasn’t good enough. This bloke just boils my piss more and more as the years go on. Hoping so much that he takes the taffy twats back down. Thank god for Chris Wilder and his attacking ethos away from home.

I agree, but wonder what this has to do with him having selective memory?

 

[Booker4]

Not usually one to defend Warnock but he did play Reid just behind Ward and they're both attackers. Its not like it was 5 across midfield with one forward.

As for those saying Warnock has never kept anyone up in the Prem, I think that's very harsh Why? Because he should have never been there in the first place with Notts, he took them up on a shoestring twice and then not surprisingly couldn't keep them up. It was hardly a failure, it was miraculous that Notts were there in the first place.

With us we all know he got 38 points and that keeps you up in man seasons, although it was very disappointing at Villa and yes we could have attacked more away from home but as I say 38 points was a decent total and he was unlucky with the other teams in my view.

Now he's took Cardiff up and they're not good enough in the first place so 30 million is not going to keep them up. His tactics are dated but you can't argue that he gets results.

He took QPR up and left them in 17th (above relegation) when he was sacked in January.

He took over at Palace when Pulis suddenly left before the season and it didn't go well, I don't know all the ins and outs from this spell but it wasn't ideal taking over in the circumstances he did.

I will never defend him over his comments about each club he manages (his love affair with every team being the best etc.) or his flirting with Wednesday. However I don't see how that detracts from the memories he gave us in his time with us.

 

[WoodMillBlade]

Warnock is an embarrassment. He turned us into a laughing stock that season.

All that Tevez bollocks, his shite negative tactics, he even blamed Ferguson and Benitez for playing weakened teams as one of the reasons we went down. Not to mention the money he blew on Luton Shelton and Mamadou Seck in January.

He should have absolutely kept us up that season and he blew it.

Can’t wait for the big nosed twat to be relegated from the Premier League once again

Bit Harsh.

I always thought the injury to Rob Hulse played a big part in Utds relegation. He looked awesome and we never replaced him.
The Jan signings actually got people excited ( remember Shelton against Man Utd). Shame they never took off.
Tevez was a real nightmare situation and Warnock had a right to be aggrieved. Rules were broken and the punishment way too soft.

In the end Warnock and it can be proved he just can’t cut it in the top league which is a real shame as he is awesome at getting teams in it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Bit Harsh.

I always thought the injury to Rob Hulse played a big part in Utds relegation. He looked awesome and we never replaced him.
The Jan signings actually got people excited ( remember Shelton against Man Utd). Shame they never took off.
Tevez was a real nightmare situation and Warnock had a right to be aggrieved. Rules were broken and the punishment way too soft.

In the end Warnock and it can be proved he just can’t cut it in the top league which is a real shame as he is awesome at getting teams in it.

He was injured in March. We couldn't replace him. The signings in January were baffling. We were supposed to be after various players but "bought for the future" instead. Clearly not ours. Let's not big Shelton up too much despite that one game.

 

[Dkc]

What people forget about Warnock is he may be a twat but he's also a Blade. He grew up in Sheffield, stood on the kop regularly as a young man and went to away games. He was more passionate on the touchline at the Lane than I've seen him since. No one can deny that he has a big ego and I think it clouded his judgement, and soured his relationship with McCabe. When we got relegated from the PL we all hurt but I bet that no one hurt more than Warnock and the wounds still haven't healed. I hope that when he retires he can reach some kind of truce with McCabe and the fans that dislike him, and be welcome to watch a game at the Lane whenever he likes. At the moment I think he's aware that in some people's eyes he's still not welcome back here

 

[103SecondsOfMagic]

Basset

Bassett ;-)

 

[Sean Thornton]

What people forget about Warnock is he may be a twat but he's also a Blade. He grew up in Sheffield, stood on the kop regularly as a young man and went to away games. He was more passionate on the touchline at the Lane than I've seen him since. No one can deny that he has a big ego and I think it clouded his judgement, and soured his relationship with McCabe. When we got relegated from the PL we all hurt but I bet that no one hurt more than Warnock and the wounds still haven't healed. I hope that when he retires he can reach some kind of truce with McCabe and the fans that dislike him, and be welcome to watch a game at the Lane whenever he likes. At the moment I think he's aware that in some people's eyes he's still not welcome back here

As a young man he was playing for Chesterfield at 18/19 after playing at a good level in Saturday football. He certainly wasn't a regular at BL or away games from 66 onwards.

I must read his book one day