Munneh

[sitwell]

PATF needs sorting first.
Prince Abdullahs trousering fund.

 

[JT89]

How far off a Cat 1 academy are we?
Is it more the staff or the facilities?
We can't very far off, our academy is brilliant.

It's quite far off, cat 1 academies need more pitches, grass pitch with floodlights & an indoor training area (all for sole use by the academy)

Cat 1 also requires considerably more staff to run, there are requirements for data analysts, more coaching staff (believe cat 1 is 1 coach per 8 players for under 16s), education managers and various other full/part time roles that aren't required for cat 2/3.

There's also higher requirements for hours of coaching per week for cat 1 which in turn increases staffing costs. This isn't just for u21/18s it's all the way down through the age groups to about u9, so the extra staffing costs are considerable.

It's not just the initial outlay to get the facilities, the yearly running costs for cat 1 are considerably higher.

Does having Cat 1 mean other Cat 1 clubs can't take our youngsters or is it just that they'll be less likely to jump ship when the 'big boys' come calling because we'll be better?

It means we would get more compensation if players leave to join other clubs. The compensation is worked out by how many years a player has been with us.

For example say a year at a cat 1 academy is worth £500, but a year at a cat 2 academy is only worth £300... so if a player leaves us after 3 years now we'd get £900 from their new club, if we were cat 1 we'd get £1500.*

* these figures are obviously way off the actual amounts, just used so I don't have to do big maths

 

[FTPE]

It's quite far off, cat 1 academies need more pitches, grass pitch with floodlights & an indoor training area (all for sole use by the academy)

Cat 1 also requires considerably more staff to run, there are requirements for data analysts, more coaching staff (believe cat 1 is 1 coach per 8 players for under 16s), education managers and various other full/part time roles that aren't required for cat 2/3.

There's also higher requirements for hours of coaching per week for cat 1 which in turn increases staffing costs. This isn't just for u21/18s it's all the way down through the age groups to about u9, so the extra staffing costs are considerable.

It's not just the initial outlay to get the facilities, the yearly running costs for cat 1 are considerably higher.


It means we would get more compensation if players leave to join other clubs. The compensation is worked out by how many years a player has been with us.

For example say a year at a cat 1 academy is worth £500, but a year at a cat 2 academy is only worth £300... so if a player leaves us after 3 years now we'd get £900 from their new club, if we were cat 1 we'd get £1500.*

* these figures are obviously way off the actual amounts, just used so I don't have to do big maths

Now THAT'S an answer!
Cheers mate.

 

[Mouth of the South]

But which players will the 4-5 perms replace and improve,there's the rub,genuine question?

Essentially the players expected to be released - Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Osborn, Davies + the gaps left by Doyle and McAtee.

Improvement also required at LCB - Robinson would be a very weak link if he was a starter next season.

 

[steve26272]

The problem with quoted figures like this are we mention £200m, but thats over 2-3 years, so its like been monthly paid, and then blowing it all in week one.

Thats the trap we fell into last time, took loans over future income, then when the gamble (Brewster etc) didnt payoff in terms of survival and or resell value, we're left in limbo as all our income is allocated and we end up embargo'd

I would prefer us to wipe all slates clean, bring in young and hungry lads (Doyle) and utilise the Championship (Hamer and Coventry) or abroad (Uremovic), should we go down we can keep to bring us back up - add to this loans (Archer, McAtee, Carvalho, Chukwuemeka) and I think we have a decent chance of survival.

However should we not survive, we will be debt free, have a decent squad to go again and our income including parachute payments will be more than the outgoings.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

Essentially the players expected to be released - Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Osborn, Davies + the gaps left by Doyle and McAtee.

Improvement also required at LCB - Robinson would be a very weak link if he was a starter next season.

Thanks for that,Mots,i can't disagree with any of that,cannot see any of the afore mentioned being offered anything,maybe Sharp but i can't think why.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

The problem with quoted figures like this are we mention £200m, but thats over 2-3 years, so its like been monthly paid, and then blowing it all in week one.

Thats the trap we fell into last time, took loans over future income, then when the gamble (Brewster etc) didnt payoff in terms of survival and or resell value, we're left in limbo as all our income is allocated and we end up embargo'd

I would prefer us to wipe all slates clean, bring in young and hungry lads (Doyle) and utilise the Championship (Hamer and Coventry) or abroad (Uremovic), should we go down we can keep to bring us back up - add to this loans (Archer, McAtee, Carvalho, Chukwuemeka) and I think we have a decent chance of survival.

However should we not survive, we will be debt free, have a decent squad to go again and our income including parachute payments will be more than the outgoings.

That's an impressive list but i wonder whether it would be out of our reach,finance wise.

 

[Need4speed]

It’s just been revealed that Southampton received £102.5m this season from TV & Prize money in the PL. Leeds received £110.2m and Leicester £111.2m.

The likely parachute payments that a relegated team can receive under the current arrangement is £94m.

So, at the very worst, that’s the best part of £200m we’re in for, and that’s not including the increase in sponsorship, ticketing and corporate revenues for at least 1 season.

Let’s use it wisely, eh?

Yep and every clubs wage bill was over £100m apart from Brentford

 

[CrookesBlade]

PATF needs sorting first.
Prince Abdullahs trousering fund.

More of a jogging bottoms or jeans man from his recent media appearances.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Thanks for that,Mots,i can't disagree with any of that,cannot see any of the afore mentioned being offered anything,maybe Sharp but i can't think why.

As great as he's been, Sharp struggled at Champ level last season - he simply wouldn't be able to do it next season considering the huge step-up in quality. Better he leave on a high and go elsewhere if he indeed intends to carry on playing.

 

[steve26272]

That's an impressive list but i wonder whether it would be out of our reach,finance wise.

For those to happen we need a few bigger boys to drop out of the running - Carvalho for example, Fulham may want him back, maybe Palace could look at him to replace Zaha, Burnley won the Championship and is closer to Liverpool than us - however if its then down to us, Luton or Championship we could get him

Id be happy if we got 2 or 3 of those 7 - get all of them and thats top 10

 

[Mouth of the South]

That's an impressive list but i wonder whether it would be out of our reach,finance wise.

Also need to consider the limit of 2 x Prem loans next season (and only 1 from a club).
They will need to be used very wisely.
Archer and Chukwuemeka would be my preference if Doyle was indeed available (and affordable) on a perm.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm being really slow this morning but if we come back down we'd only be eligible for two years' parachute payments. Year one is 55% of the base payment to all PL clubs and was £44m for us in 21/22; year 2 is 45% (£36m) and year three is 20% (£16m). Promotion is therefore worth a mimimum of £180m over the next three years.

Will accept only when Andy confirms percentages………

 

[Sean Thornton]

It will not all be there to use. We already have very significant monthly expenditure which will increase substantially in the PL.
We will also “lose” the income from this season in the sense that we cannot receive the Championship income.

Why do we lose this seasons money from the Championship?

 

[Balham]

Will accept only when Andy confirms percentages………

There's more chance of him abusing you. Or admitting that he said that Dozy had put £27m in (which he modt definitely did say).

Why do we lose this seasons money from the Championship?

I think the point being made is that we won't get the £16m third year payment but that's because we're getting the £100m for being a Premier League club. No hardship.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So, say that one season in the top flight is worth £170-180 over 3 years.

We have already taken a loan against next year's parachute payment (so that's minus c£18 million)
Then you have promotion bonuses. Let/s say £10 million
Then you have the increased wages/new contracts for existing players. Let's say that's £70 million over those 3 years
Then there are the current wages and losses, which let's say is £20 million x 2 seasons back down in the Championship.

So, just with that lot we have £32-42 million left over the next 3 years. Without touching any of the infrastructure or buying players.

Our major assets (Ndiaye, Berge, Egan, RND, Jebbo, McBurnie) have a year left on their contracts. So they're not worth that much. Should they hold out for a Bosman, then worthless on the balance sheet.

We'll get more in sponsorship/corporate for a year but that balances off with what happens if we go straight back down.

Administrative expenses and interest around £20m per season.

 

[Sean Thornton]

There's more chance of him abusing you. Or admitting that he said that Dozy had put £27m in (which he modt definitely did say).


I think the point being made is that we won't get the £16m third year payment but that's because we're getting the £100m for being a Premier League club. No hardship.

True!

Next seasons money then, not this seasons.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The financials have changed even since we were last in the Prem. The old unwritten rule was that you could run a bottom half Prem team and make a profit. That it was less expensive than running a top end Champ team. You could at least come close to breaking even and go down with saleable assets and parachute payments. Now you need an owner prepared to put big money in every single year in the Prem. It's crazy. Any new money that comes into the game goes directly to football players, it doesn't reduce this ever increasing burden. A glance at the likes of Brighton, Leicester, Southampton, Forest, Leeds is scary to say the least. It's an alternative universe.

 

[s20Blade]

I’d like a cat 1 academy and improved scouting infrastructure out of any PL cash.

This!

We're going to go down at some point and all the current players will be gone in a few years so let's not make the mistake of plummeting down the leagues again. producing top youth and a scouting system like Brentford is the way forrad.

 

[Davalon]

I've heard (from someone high up at the club) that the Prince will syphon off half of that.

 

[Balham]

I've heard (from someone high up at the club) that the Prince will syphon off half of that.

If you can let me know how he plans to do that legally I'm all ears.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

What we should do is see if we can get a license to build a casino within the South stand and cream some of the profits into the football side. Or see if Jacob Essian has come up with the 350 million quid he memtioned.

 

[Tarqs]

We have one of the most successful academies we've had in my lifetime, is not THE most.

Cat 1 status will cost us millions and millions to build and structure, it will cost us millions and millions per season in upkeep.

What guarantees will it give us, over what we already have?

I'll tell you, none!

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've heard (from someone high up at the club) that the Prince will syphon off half of that.

At least he’s cutting his cloth accordingly reducing it to 50%.

Good on him l say.

 

[Yogi]

Now THAT'S an answer!
Cheers mate.

I’ve posted it on another thread but you’d be looking at building something like what Palace have which I’ve linked below and none of the facilities or staff can be shared with either the first team or the womens team. You’re looking at somewhere in the 20 million pound ball park to build it and a lot to keep it running.

Gareth Southgate opens stunning £20m Palace Academy - News - Crystal Palace F.C.

www.cpfc.co.uk

 

[Sean Thornton]

If you can let me know how he plans to do that legally I'm all ears.

What you do is deliberately increase the total turnover received since our last PL adventure by £100m, say you can’t find it in the accounts and state that therefore, HRH has had it.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

Munneh

Where’s it gone ?

Princes pocket that’s where

Long pockets short hands and a big belly

 

[bertieblade]

I've heard (from someone high up at the club) that the Prince will syphon off half of that.

He may be to repay loans?

 

[alcoblade]

If Utd have publicised the actual kitty for fees (not withstanding how deals will be structured and amortized), then they're unbelievably daft. I very much doubt that is indeed the case though.
Tbh I don't mind if Utd don't spend a penny on fees as long as the required standard of players come in. Out of contract players (who will demand not insignificant signing fees) and loans (including loan fees and higher salaries) would be fine if the players are good enough.

I agree in principle, but everyone would rather not fork out for big fees. It generally goes with the turf of attracting players that are good enough.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

The financials have changed even since we were last in the Prem. The old unwritten rule was that you could run a bottom half Prem team and make a profit. That it was less expensive than running a top end Champ team. You could at least come close to breaking even and go down with saleable assets and parachute payments. Now you need an owner prepared to put big money in every single year in the Prem. It's crazy. Any new money that comes into the game goes directly to football players, it doesn't reduce this ever increasing burden. A glance at the likes of Brighton, Leicester, Southampton, Forest, Leeds is scary to say the least. It's an alternative universe.

No they were losing money before we got in it. Very few make a profit every season