Mr McCabe

[LenTednTony]

Having played amatuer as a centre back and striker, there have been times (3 I can think of) when being unable to reach with my head, a reaction of desperation has caused me to reach with my hand. Moronic, yes, penalty, yes, intentional well, the ref thought.so even though I couldn't stop my reaction. Cursed and sworn at by my team mates and manager, sure as hell but, not done to lose a game but in the extra effort of trying to avoid defeat.

As for Jags coming back to the Lane, on balance I would say yes for a max of one year as a player while he also pursues his coaching badges AND that he is kept within the wage structure. If he gets his badges then lets use his experience in the coaching set up. If not then, meh...

 

[Pinchy]

Have you informed scotland yard of your suspicions ?

Another missed point. I said nothing of his motivation. He deliberately handled the ball. There is absolutely no question of that. I think a dictionary will explain, not the laws of football or the land.

 

[Pinchy]

Having played amatuer as a centre back and striker, there have been times (3 I can think of) when being unable to reach with my head, a reaction of desperation has caused me to reach with my hand. Moronic, yes, penalty, yes, intentional well, the ref thought.so even though I couldn't stop my reaction. Cursed and sworn at by my team mates and manager, sure as hell but, not done to lose a game but in the extra effort of trying to avoid defeat.

Another missed point. I'm arguably the number one critic of the Everton player. I've never suggested he did it to lose the game. I express myself with clarity and people still read what they want to read.

Anyway, fuck the Everton player. Why come back now? You haven't bothered before.

 

[Davalon]

It did then. Are you seriously suggesting he had no intention of handling the ball? Bladey madness!

Fuck the Everton player.

Your obsession with calling anyone and anything Bladey if it involves not agreeing with your assessment is a tad tedious.

I've no idea what went through his head against Wigan just like you haven't.

He isn't a Blade and his association with Everton goes back past us. His move there was the right thing to do for himself as shown by his career and England caps.

I'm not aware of him saying a bad thing about us, but I am aware through a mate who was at United as a youngster with him that he's a solid pro and good lad.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Another missed point. I said nothing of his motivation. He deliberately handled the ball. There is absolutely no question of that. I think a dictionary will explain, not the laws of football or the land.

What page in the dictionary ?
I've had a quick shufty through and cant find owt about why jags deliberately handled ball against Wigan

You should round up all the staff who got made redundant and get a compo claim going ,especially if there is evidence in the dictionary
You could be looking at a right claim

 

[FMBlade1]

That's a clear and deliberate handball as well!

He was on a yellow card and there was no desperate need to score a goal at that time, why do you think one of the best players in the world at that time would deliberately do something as stupid as that?

It was an accident and was instinctive, much as Jags was. If it was similar to the Suarez vs. Ghana situation you might have a point but it wasn't.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

It was a deliberate handball. I can't believe there's even a discussion about it. If you move your hands towards where the ball is going to be or they are in an unnatural position when the ball strikes, it is deliberate. Your hands don't just flail about of their own accord except when they move naturally to counterbalance you. Your hands don't go up to counterbalance you when you are jumping up; they actually move down. If they are not naturally counterbalancing you and they strike/are struck by the ball then that is clearly illegal handball - has been forever and still is now.

Having played amatuer as a centre back and striker, there have been times (3 I can think of) when being unable to reach with my head, a reaction of desperation has caused me to reach with my hand. Moronic, yes, penalty, yes, intentional well, the ref thought.so even though I couldn't stop my reaction.

How on earth is what you've described not intentional? You reached with your hand. You. An action, controlled by you. A reaction like that isn't something you can't stop yourself doing - don't be ridiculous. If that were true there'd be 10 penalties each game for each side and the whole concept of football would have changed 100 years ago.

He was on a yellow card and there was no desperate need to score a goal at that time, why do you think one of the best players in the world at that time would deliberately do something as stupid as that?

Because he's stupid and a professional footballer. Professional footballer = cheat. It's ingrained, he can't help himself, he thinks he's so important that if he can't get to head the ball and score then there's no one else who could possibly have a crack at it, so might as well play volleyball on the off-chance that the ref and both linesmen are looking at some bird in the stands who's got her jugs out.

It was an accident and was instinctive

It wasn't an accident. He meant to put his hand there. In no possible way can the meaning of the word accident be bent to apply to that. Again, see above about what football would look like if it was really instinctive to handle a ball you can't reach. It is only instinctive if it is your instinct to cheat, which in his case, it undoubtedly is.


People are possibly mixing the act of deliberate handball with the act of deliberately throwing the game by means of a handball. They are two different things. Pinchy has stated he believes it was the former and not the latter. I believe it is the former (how can it not be?) and quite honestly I am not convinced it wasn't the latter, but on that we'll never know.

 

[Pinchy]

He was on a yellow card and there was no desperate need to score a goal at that time, why do you think one of the best players in the world at that time would deliberately do something as stupid as that?

It was an accident and was instinctive, much as Jags was. If it was similar to the Suarez vs. Ghana situation you might have a point but it wasn't.

You really haven't a clue what you are talking about.

 

[FMBlade1]

You really haven't a clue what you are talking about.

I love it when people post 'what you say is crap' then just leave it there without backing up what they say

"When someone gets sent off by punching the ball… it’s a bit unfortunate, it was an instinctive thing."

Sir. Alex Ferguson.

(edit: actually I take that back, he did it in the last minute of the game so they did need to score, what I said before wasn't entirely accurate)

 

[Pinchy]

It was a deliberate handball. I can't believe there's even a discussion about it. If you move your hands towards where the ball is going to be or they are in an unnatural position when the ball strikes, it is deliberate. Your hands don't just flail about of their own accord except when they move naturally to counterbalance you. Your hands don't go up to counterbalance you when you are jumping up; they actually move down. If they are not naturally counterbalancing you and they strike/are struck by the ball then that is clearly illegal handball - has been forever and still is now.



How on earth is what you've described not intentional? You reached with your hand. You. An action, controlled by you. A reaction like that isn't something you can't stop yourself doing - don't be ridiculous. If that were true there'd be 10 penalties each game for each side and the whole concept of football would have changed 100 years ago.



Because he's stupid and a professional footballer. Professional footballer = cheat. It's ingrained, he can't help himself, he thinks he's so important that if he can't get to head the ball and score then there's no one else who could possibly have a crack at it, so might as well play volleyball on the off-chance that the ref and both linesmen are looking at some bird in the stands who's got her jugs out.



It wasn't an accident. He meant to put his hand there. In no possible way can the meaning of the word accident be bent to apply to that. Again, see above about what football would look like if it was really instinctive to handle a ball you can't reach. It is only instinctive if it is your instinct to cheat, which in his case, it undoubtedly is.


People are possibly mixing the act of deliberate handball with the act of deliberately throwing the game by means of a handball. They are two different things. Pinchy has stated he believes it was the former and not the latter. I believe it is the former (how can it not be?) and quite honestly I am not convinced it wasn't the latter, but on that we'll never know.

You've explained that clearly and accurately. The problem is you had already done so. It didn't register then and probably won't now.

There is no arguable issue here, except for the question of motivation. "Deliberate" is spoken for. You, I and the vast majority who are choosing not to contribute because it's so staggeringly fucking obvious, understand that. A small minority seem unable to grasp the point. You've tried.

 

[Pinchy]

I love it when people post 'what you say is crap' then just leave it there without backing up what they say

"When someone gets sent off by punching the ball… it’s a bit unfortunate, it was an instinctive thing."

Sir. Alex Ferguson.

(edit: actually I take that back, he did it in the last minute of the game so they did need to score, what I said before wasn't entirely accurate)

It was deliberate. Scholes intended to handle the ball. It wasn't planned; It wasn't premeditated; There was no sinister purpose. The intention arose in a split second but intentional and deliberate it most certainly was.

As I said earlier, you may be misunderstanding the meaning of words rather than the laws of the game. I have explained this repeatedly now, as has Hamburg Blade. You can either grasp the point, or ignore it but to suggest that I haven't "backed up what I say" only emphasises the margin by which you miss the point.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Can someone remind me what this thread started out as

 

[Grappler]

Can someone remind me what this thread started out as

Think it was to do with the rumour that Nick "Monty" Montgomery is the BBC's number one choice to the new Doctor Who.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Think it was to do with the rumour that Nick "Monty" Montgomery is the BBC's number one choice to the new Doctor Who.

That would be bloody fantastic

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

Think it was to do with the rumour that Nick "Monty" Montgomery is the BBC's number one choice to the new Doctor Who.

He's going to man mark a darlek

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Apologies if posted elsewhere

McCabe tells RS that although they won't pay over the odds, there could be a couple of special signings to be made

Only caught was said by chance and may have not not heard his exact words


Could take that a number of ways. As we need a CB or two, would Jagielka be one?

Thought I'd resurrect the OP seeing as we have drifted off into all kinds of other conversations and debates.

So, McCabe has come out with something a little bit tantalising eh? A bit cryptic, a bit, "wait and see, but something exciting is going to happen". I mean, we should recognise this tactic of Uncle Kev's by now. Whenever things are going well, Uncle Kev is never far from a microphone. When things are not going well he is considerably more "unplugged". A little bit of positive PR isn't a bad thing, especially when season tickets are still on sale.

I've said before, I think McCabe is a blundering but benign benefactor of the club. He means well. He's always meant well. And he thinks what he's doing now is well-intended. He's trying to drum up some excitement and enthusiasm. He knows full well that some of us fans will be thinking..."this is the best manager we've had at the club for years - but will McCabe and the Board back him sufficiently to help us really push on to the next level?". And what McCabe is trying to say to us is, "yes we will - but we're not going to go crazy and spend millions on average journeymen players, like some Sheffield clubs have done!".

I'd take the message as being just that.

I really wouldn't start dreaming of big name signings or multi-million pound signings. I don't think we need it anyhow. We just need McCabe to back Wilder's sound judgement and we'll be o.k.

 

[wizadry]

We don't need to hear or see McCabe, ultimately the results on the pitch are the only things that matter and he can have a huge impact on that without the need to open his mouth and giving messages out to the fans.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I'd like us to try jagielka at some point. Apart from his unintentional handball, he's had a stellar career.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

I'd like us to try jagielka at some point. Apart from his unintentional handball, he's had a stellar career.

The operative word is "had". Have you any more suggestions for 35 year old players for us to sign ?

 

[Bladesway]

I'd like us to try jagielka at some point. Apart from his unintentional handball, he's had a stellar career.

Naa he's just some shitarsed mercenary who plays for Everton.

 

[FinchleyBlade]

I can't take anyone seriously who actually believes that Phil Jagielka deliberately handled the ball and gave away a penalty for the sole purpose of relegating us so he could engineer a move away from the club he had been with since a teenager.

Do you realise how mad that sounds?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Thought I'd resurrect the OP seeing as we have drifted off into all kinds of other conversations and debates.

I was hoping to read more about Montgomery being in Doctor Who, to be honest.

 

[LenTednTony]

It was a deliberate handball. I can't believe there's even a discussion about it. If you move your hands towards where the ball is going to be or they are in an unnatural position when the ball strikes, it is deliberate. Your hands don't just flail about of their own accord except when they move naturally to counterbalance you. Your hands don't go up to counterbalance you when you are jumping up; they actually move down. If they are not naturally counterbalancing you and they strike/are struck by the ball then that is clearly illegal handball - has been forever and still is now.



How on earth is what you've described not intentional? You reached with your hand. You. An action, controlled by you. A reaction like that isn't something you can't stop yourself doing - don't be ridiculous. If that were true there'd be 10 penalties each game for each side and the whole concept of football would have changed 100 years ago.



Because he's stupid and a professional footballer. Professional footballer = cheat. It's ingrained, he can't help himself, he thinks he's so important that if he can't get to head the ball and score then there's no one else who could possibly have a crack at it, so might as well play volleyball on the off-chance that the ref and both linesmen are looking at some bird in the stands who's got her jugs out.



It wasn't an accident. He meant to put his hand there. In no possible way can the meaning of the word accident be bent to apply to that. Again, see above about what football would look like if it was really instinctive to handle a ball you can't reach. It is only instinctive if it is your instinct to cheat, which in his case, it undoubtedly is.


People are possibly mixing the act of deliberate handball with the act of deliberately throwing the game by means of a handball. They are two different things. Pinchy has stated he believes it was the former and not the latter. I believe it is the former (how can it not be?) and quite honestly I am not convinced it wasn't the latter, but on that we'll never know.

Dear Hamburg,
Even though you may read implications within my text, where have I ACTUALLY said it wasn't intentional? As for something being a reaction, have you not heard of an involuntary reaction? If something is involuntary, does it not cloud the intentional issue? I won't resort to the dictionary as to be perfectly honest, I now tire of this discussion other than to point out to others that ALL players are (insert team name) players before we sign them. We wouldn't want any of our players referencing other teams when they play for us. I don't see it as an issue when they are not signed for us however, after they sign, I want them to bleed Sheffield United!

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Dear Hamburg,
Even though you may read implications within my text, where have I ACTUALLY said it wasn't intentional?

You said it here: "intentional well, the ref thought.so even though I couldn't stop my reaction." You are saying, as you've just backed up, that your reaction was involuntary and that it was the referee that thought it was intentional, not you. You cannot have an intentional involuntary reaction, the two things are opposites. And yes, of course I've heard of an involuntary action, and no it doesn't cloud the issue because there's no such thing as an involuntary reaching up to volley a ball when you are trying to head it. It doesn't exist. It is a myth that some people have come to believe simply because so many professional footballers do it and so many people defend it. You intentionally handled the ball, it may have been spontaneous, unthinking, non-devious, but there is no grey area, unless it's the difficulty referees sometimes have in determining if something is intentional. Jumping in the air and volleying the ball with your hand takes that difficulty away.

ALL players are (insert team name) players before we sign them. We wouldn't want any of our players referencing other teams when they play for us. I don't see it as an issue when they are not signed for us however, after they sign, I want them to bleed Sheffield United!

The circumstances in this case, however, warranted a word or two from said player to the fans of the club that he had "been with since a teenager" and loved so much that it is unthinkable that he could do anything to harm it. But no. Nothing.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

He's going to man mark a darlek

My money's on the Darlek even though they're slower than a snail on Diazepam.

 

[Worksop II]

He's going to man mark a darlek

It's Dalek !!

and yes, more chance of a Dalek trapping the ball than our Nick .........

 

[LenTednTony]

You said it here: "intentional well, the ref thought.so even though I couldn't stop my reaction." You are saying, as you've just backed up, that your reaction was involuntary and that it was the referee that thought it was intentional, not you. You cannot have an intentional involuntary reaction, the two things are opposites. And yes, of course I've heard of an involuntary action, and no it doesn't cloud the issue because there's no such thing as an involuntary reaching up to volley a ball when you are trying to head it. It doesn't exist. It is a myth that some people have come to believe simply because so many professional footballers do it and so many people defend it. You intentionally handled the ball, it may have been spontaneous, unthinking, non-devious, but there is no grey area, unless it's the difficulty referees sometimes have in determining if something is intentional. Jumping in the air and volleying the ball with your hand takes that difficulty away.



The circumstances in this case, however, warranted a word or two from said player to the fans of the club that he had "been with since a teenager" and loved so much that it is unthinkable that he could do anything to harm it. But no. Nothing.

........Unless that reaching up was an involuntary action.

As for the "Everton player" making comment, why should he? He had been loved and worshipped by Sheffield United supporters for years. Why would he feel it necessary to explain that he did not engineer a move away from United? He had given fouls and, maybe penalties, away in the past. Should he have apologised for each and everyone of those that occurs in a game? No, it really is time to let this go. Lets agree to disagree as you are obviously more intelligent than me and more versed in the actual happenings of what occured and why. My opinion of Jags will not change. A good servant to the club and someone I would seriously consider accepting back into the fold even though he is an "Everton player".

 

[Hamburg Blade]

........Unless that reaching up was an involuntary action.

As I've explained, I don't believe that can be an involuntary action, but we will have to leave it at us disagreeing on that.

As for the "Everton player" making comment, why should he? He had been loved and worshipped by Sheffield United supporters for years. Why would he feel it necessary to explain that he did not engineer a move away from United? He had given fouls and, maybe penalties, away in the past. Should he have apologised for each and everyone of those that occurs in a game? No, it really is time to let this go. Lets agree to disagree as you are obviously more intelligent than me and more versed in the actual happenings of what occured and why. My opinion of Jags will not change. A good servant to the club and someone I would seriously consider accepting back into the fold even though he is an "Everton player".

He wasn't an Everton player straight away, and no he doesn't need to explain away every foul and handball, none of them were as bizarre or as important. That's why he needed to say something, this was a one-off extraordinary incident with massive ramifications. I find it incredibly odd that he wouldn't say anything - and I'm not suggesting he defend himself regarding accusations of deliberately throwing the game, just what that handball was about. It's more about his attitude to the club and the fans that he didn't, rather than wanting to get to the bottom of his action.
If he came back I would accept the decision and hope he still had a good season or two in him. If I can grit my teeth and say (next to) nowt about Ched's return I can certainly handle Jags being back. It's the obsession that so many fans seem to have with bringing back ex players that I don't understand. But thanks for the discussion, I can see what you're saying, even if we don't fully agree.

Oh and thanks for the compliment, but there are plenty on the General Election thread who will tell you I'm as thick as pigshit.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

The operative word is "had". Have you any more suggestions for 35 year old players for us to sign ?

Yes I'd take a look at pirlo. I've heard he's ok.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

Yes I'd take a look at pirlo. I've heard he's ok.

Fair point, but how many of those are there ?